Cannabis consumption on track to overtake alcohol

[muppy]

2 hours ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

I live & work in real-world where personal safety is an issue with stuff like OUI (Operating Under The Influence)... There's going to be some connection with causation.

 

Alcohol is much easier to manage IMO. We're entering a brave new time.  So much more unknown with individuals and their state of minds.  All I am saying is we should tread carefully. Dealing with a populace who's self-medicating will bring its challenges more than alcohol.

 

 

Or... If illegal push them to more innocuous drugs like alcohol.  Innocuous when it comes to self-medicating. FWIW...

 

People are psychological walking time-bombs out there.  Now, mix in a wildcard. 😬😬

 

[I see parallels to the gun debate and personal freedom]

I actually like to read an opposing view than my own.  In your position and as a matter of public safety clearly this would/could become a major issue with you. My question though is just how much THC would induce someone to be impaired whilst driving. If anything smoking weed as a medical relief I'm not sure how they would/could exactly determine impairment when you consider tolerance levels and build up in the body over time subsequent to any DUI tye offense.

 

That is something I don't know. You could fill a book of what I don't know regarding this subject. But we are lucky to have a masters level student to answer our questions. Invaluable. Marijuana is here to stay.

Hubby is the DD in our household Im shotgun just sayin. He doesn't partake.

 

m

[ExiledInIllinois]

1 hour ago, billsfanmiamioh said:

I didn’t even get past the website to see the study was published in the Lancet. I see it was a case control study which inherently will have some bias and probably wouldn’t be considered “high quality” evidence. 
 

I’ll read it when I get some time but I’m guessing it will have some pretty big holes in it. 

From 2016:

 

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/abcs-child-psychiatry/201601/does-marijuana-cause-psychosis

 

How many people out there have schizophrenic tendencies or even genetics and don't know it. IMO... Quite a time-bomb we're messing with.

 

Do we want them self-medicating, titrating their doses. Sure, they   Call me against the new conventionality... But IMO, alcohol (can be bad), doesn't leave so many unknowns.

[ExiledInIllinois]

11 minutes ago, muppy said:

I actually like to read an opposing view than my own.  In your position and as a matter of public safety clearly this would/could become a major issue with you. My question though is just how much THC would induce someone to be impaired whilst driving. If anything smoking weed as a medical relief I'm not sure how they would/could exactly determine impairment when you consider tolerance levels and build up in the body over time subsequent to any DUI tye offense.

 

That is something I don't know. You could fill a book of what I don't know regarding this subject. But we are lucky to have a masters level student to answer our questions. Invaluable. Marijuana is here to stay.

Hubby is the DD in our household Im shotgun just sayin. He doesn't partake.

 

m

Zero.  Isn't buzzed driving called drunk driving.  Or, at least that's the campaign.

 

God, who knows what buzzed is with regards to other medications and recreational drugs?

 

Sorry to beat a cautionary horse... But we are entering semi-uncharted waters.  We all know all to well how that goes, always unintended consequences. Heroin was created to save morphine addicts,  hence the name albeit dropping the all important "e" @ the end. 😏 

 

Be careful where we tread... Nobody should complain if things go off the Rails.  Sobriety is really the only answer when operating in public... If that can't take place, then who's responsible,  a self-medicated person? No, there should be a professional behind that medication, like a doctor.   Yet, we seen how well the opioid epidemic went. BUT, someone rather than the individual is still more responsible. 

 

I will let it go... But I hate when I see societal shifts like this. 

[muppy]

11 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

Zero.  Isn't buzzed driving called drunk driving.  Or, at least that's the campaign.

 

God, who knows what buzzed is with regards to other medications and recreational drugs?

 

Sorry to beat a cautionary horse... But we are entering semi-uncharted waters.  We all know all to well how that goes, always unintended consequences. Heroin was created to save morphine addicts,  hence the name albeit dropping the all important "e" @ the end. 😏 

 

Be careful where we tread... Nobody should complain if things go off the Rails.  Sobriety is really the only answer when operating in public... If that can't take place, then who's responsible,  a self-medicated person? No, there should be a professional behind that medication, like a doctor.   Yet, we seen how well the opioid epidemic went. BUT, someone rather than the individual is still more responsible. 

 

I will let it go... But I hate when I see societal shifts like this. 

 you don't need apologize to anybody regarding your opinion. Im not discounting what you are saying nor its validity. It needs discussed.

 

Because as you rightly discern  this is a pretty major societal shift. WE used to put weed sellers in jail. Now they are entrepeneurs  corporately organized and Legal.

 

I'd be curious for any law enforcement type person to chime in here. How do they interact with joe pot smoking public? I wonder. I understand what you mean by sober. But even alcohol needs exceed .08 in Cali to be considered impaired. Its certianly not zero just sayin. Same with marijuana hence my question in preceding post.

 

m

Edited August 15, 2022 by muppy

[Gugny]

32 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

Zero.  Isn't buzzed driving called drunk driving.  Or, at least that's the campaign.

 

God, who knows what buzzed is with regards to other medications and recreational drugs?

 

Sorry to beat a cautionary horse... But we are entering semi-uncharted waters.  We all know all to well how that goes, always unintended consequences. Heroin was created to save morphine addicts,  hence the name albeit dropping the all important "e" @ the end. 😏 

 

Be careful where we tread... Nobody should complain if things go off the Rails.  Sobriety is really the only answer when operating in public... If that can't take place, then who's responsible,  a self-medicated person? No, there should be a professional behind that medication, like a doctor.   Yet, we seen how well the opioid epidemic went. BUT, someone rather than the individual is still more responsible. 

 

I will let it go... But I hate when I see societal shifts like this. 

 

I don't get the uncharted waters thing.

 

Just because recreational marijuana is legal, doesn't mean pot smokers are suddenly going to begin driving high.

 

And comparing THC to opioids is kinda silly.

[Johnny Hammersticks]

38 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

From 2016:

 

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/abcs-child-psychiatry/201601/does-marijuana-cause-psychosis

 

How many people out there have schizophrenic tendencies or even genetics and don't know it. IMO... Quite a time-bomb we're messing with.

 

Do we want them self-medicating, titrating their doses. Sure, they   Call me against the new conventionality... But IMO, alcohol (can be bad), doesn't leave so many unknowns.

Again, the incomplete/questionable science.  You are fine to state your opinion on the matter, as I think there are legitimate questions to be asked here.  But you can’t prop up your opinion with questionable science and say there is fire along with the smoke. This is a review of several longitudinal studies that are all flawed in some way.  Essentially leading the author to state “There is enough questionable evidence derived through questionable studies to put a message out to the public about something that hasn’t been proven.”  I’m paraphrasing what is actually states in the article.

[ExiledInIllinois]

28 minutes ago, muppy said:

 you don't need apologize to anybody regarding your opinion. Im not discounting what you are saying nor its validity. It needs discussed.

 

Because as you rightly discern  this is a pretty major societal shift. WE used to put weed sellers in jail. Now they are entrepeneurs  corporately organized and Legal.

 

I'd be curious for any law enforcement type person to chime in here. How do they interact with joe pot smoking public? I wonder. I understand what you mean by sober. But even alcohol needs exceed .08 in Cali to be considered impaired. Its certianly not zero just sayin. Same with marijuana hence my question in preceding post.

 

m

Yup! Agree.  But the campaign out there is buzzed driving is drunk driving. So... Does how does that equate to weed?  If you feel it, you shouldn't operate, right? 

 

They want zero.  They want sobriety when operating. 

4 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

I don't get the uncharted waters thing.

 

Just because recreational marijuana is legal, doesn't mean pot smokers are suddenly going to begin driving high.

 

And comparing THC to opioids is kinda silly.

Not comparing the strength of the two drugs, just the self-titrating (aspect of weed) vs. getting an RX from a professional.

Edited August 15, 2022 by ExiledInIllinois

[Johnny Hammersticks]

Just now, ExiledInIllinois said:

Yup! Agree.  But the campaign out there is buzzed driving is drunk driving. So... Does how does that equate to weed?  If you feel it, you shouldn't operate, right? 

 

They want zero.  They want sobriety when operating. 

I mowed the lawn stoned as ***** yesterday.  On my new lawn tractor.  I even took it down the street to mow sweet ol’ Ms. Joan’s lawn…experiencing transient psychosis the whole time…and loving it.

 

 

[ExiledInIllinois]

1 minute ago, Johnny Hammersticks said:

I mowed the lawn stoned as ***** yesterday.  On my new lawn tractor.  I even took it down the street to mow sweet ol’ Ms. Joan’s lawn…experiencing transient psychosis the whole time…and loving it.

 

 

It's all fun and games mister till someone loses an eye!!!!

 

😏 

But there's only 650,000 in the whole state of VT... How many people could you have interacted with on the way to Mrs.Joan's place 40 miles away.  One person? 😉 

 

 

[PromoTheRobot]

1 hour ago, Johnny Hammersticks said:

Again, the incomplete/questionable science.  You are fine to state your opinion on the matter, as I think there are legitimate questions to be asked here.  But you can’t prop up your opinion with questionable science and say there is fire along with the smoke. This is a review of several longitudinal studies that are all flawed in some way.  Essentially leading the author to state “There is enough questionable evidence derived through questionable studies to put a message out to the public about something that hasn’t been proven.”  I’m paraphrasing what is actually states in the article.

 

It's worth remembering that making weed legal doesn't mean people just started smoking it. There are decades of people using. And it's not like high-THC weed only just appeared. So if there were serious medical consequences from THC we'd know about it already. Obviously anyone who smokes non-stop is going to have issues. But casual use?  

[Johnny Hammersticks]

2 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

It's worth remembering that making weed legal doesn't mean people just started smoking it. There are decades of people using. And it's not like high-THC weed only just appeared. So if there were serious medical consequences from THC we'd know about it already. Obviously anyone who smokes non-stop is going to have issues. But casual use?  

I tend to agree with you, in that, if excessive cannabis use was directly linked to psychosis/schizophrenia there would be some solid longitudinal research to support that.  I’m 43 years old, and have been enjoying “high potency” cannabis regularly since I was 15 years old.  Back in the day I smoked just about every single day.  Now I probably enjoy cannabis flower or edibles 2 or 3 days per week.

 

The connection between cocaine use and cocaine induced psychosis/schizophrenia is well documented and widely supported by the medical community.  You’d think the same would be true of cannabis induced schizophrenia if it were actually a thing.

[Teddy KGB]

Lol @ExiledInIllinois on all marijuana topics for a decade now 😂😂😂

9 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

It's worth remembering that making weed legal doesn't mean people just started smoking it. There are decades of people using. And it's not like high-THC weed only just appeared. So if there were serious medical consequences from THC we'd know about it already. Obviously anyone who smokes non-stop is going to have issues. But casual use?  

smoking non stop is going to cause an issue ? 
 

what about just half of the day ? 

[Augie]

11 hours ago, Johnny Hammersticks said:

I mowed the lawn stoned as ***** yesterday.  On my new lawn tractor.  I even took it down the street to mow sweet ol’ Ms. Joan’s lawn…experiencing transient psychosis the whole time…and loving it.

 

 

 

Does sweet ol’ Ms Joan pay you in special brownies? You could do the whole neighborhood! 

[Draconator]

11 hours ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

 

Not comparing the strength of the two drugs, just the self-titrating (aspect of weed) vs. getting an RX from a professional.

For what it's worth, I received my Medical Marijuana Card when I lived in California in 2012. I went to a dispensary in Berkeley to get my first (and as it turns out, only) fill of medical cannabis. It was like a McDonalds of Weed. Different buds in display cases, and LED monitors giving the different varieties with pricing hanging from the ceiling. 

 

In regards to driving, when I bought my weed from this dispensary, they asked me if I had ever purchased from them before. When I said no, they invited me to their hash bar in the back for a free hit of hash. I walked to my car after the hit, and for the next 2 hours I drove around Berkeley in a giant circle, finally pulling over and having to GPS my home address because I couldn't figure out how to get home. 

 

So from my own personal experience, there is a thing about buzzed driving being drunk driving. 

[ExiledInIllinois]

Just now. Nothing worse than stoned boaters!  These guys stoned outta their mind.  Attempting to roll another one while locking thru...  I told them to blaze it when they get to Lake Michigan. Open flames can ignite fumes low on the water in confined space of the lock chamber. This wasn't a HazMat lockage, why we don't lock anyone with HazMat... Too unpredictable what people will do.  They simply have blinders on, pot/booze adds to it!

 

Then leaving they won't speed up and get going with the tow and barge right behind hot on its tail with the wind,  totally unaware that it's bearing down on them! Right about here they should have hole-shot it to a safer location! But they're baked!

 

 

No perception of what's behind them...

Edited August 16, 2022 by ExiledInIllinois

[billsfanmiamioh]

52 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

Just now. Nothing worse than stoned boaters!  These guys stoned outta their mind.  Attempting to roll another one while locking thru...  I told them to blaze it when they get to Lake Michigan. Open flames can ignite fumes low on the water in confined space of the lock chamber. This wasn't a HazMat lockage, why we don't lock anyone with HazMat... Too unpredictable what people will do.  They simply have blinders on, pot/booze adds to it!

 

Then leaving they won't speed up and get going with the tow and barge right behind hot on its tail with the wind,  totally unaware that it's bearing down on them! Right about here they should have hole-shot it to a safer location! But they're baked!

 

 

No perception of what's behind them...

I don’t see anyone here advocating for operating motor vehicles, boats, heavy machinery, etc while under the influence. Obviously your work puts you in situations where you are much more likely to encounter people doing just that. It’s certainly a problem. And resources need to keep being devoted to detecting intoxication in real time. However, I don’t feel like that’s a good enough reason to not allow medicinal or adult recreational use in all of the general public. 
 

Im starting a course next week that is entirely dedicated to the negative effects of medical cannabis. They certainly exist. I should have some more perspective after the course, but there really isn’t much high quality evidence that shows people who regularly consume cannabis are prone to psychosis. It definitely needs further study, but at this point most of the medial and scientific community assigns a relatively low risk profile to medicinal or adult use. Certainly much less risk than opioids or alcohol. I remember one study that was pretty robust (think it was a double blinded, randomized controlled trial) that we went through that found it’s extremely rare to psychosis as a side effect and it was really with a lot of other factors involved. I’ll try and find it when I have some time. 

 

And I don’t really get your argument about “self titrating”. I think almost every state that has a medical cannabis program requires a patient to have an initial and continuing relationship with the clinician (usually doc, few states allow pharmacists now I think) who recommends medical cannabis. This includes entire health history, medications, risk factors which may make cannabis a poor candidate, etc. They work together with the patient to find dosage and delivery that’s appropriate for that person. It’s a pretty individualized process. Call me crazy, but in some ways I’ll take that over some pen happy doctor with a RX pad paid for by a big pharmaceutal company. 
 

I like to engage in constructive debate with alternate viewpoints, and I’ve said there’s certainly things to be concerned about with medial or recreational cannabis use. I just think the “world is going to come to an end because of weed” argument is antiquated and based mostly in fiction. 

[nucci]

On 8/14/2022 at 5:41 PM, ExiledInIllinois said:

Nothing good can come of it.  It's like taking the "guns approach"... And expecting everyone to be a responsible person.   Just ain't gonna happen.  We are replacing one crutch with another.

 

There's more people in my county than the whole state of VT. 😉 

Many were smoking before it was legal. I doubt more are smoking because it's legal. Not being legal didn't stop people from it. 

[Teddy KGB]

1 hour ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

Just now. Nothing worse than stoned boaters!  These guys stoned outta their mind.  Attempting to roll another one while locking thru...  I told them to blaze it when they get to Lake Michigan. Open flames can ignite fumes low on the water in confined space of the lock chamber. This wasn't a HazMat lockage, why we don't lock anyone with HazMat... Too unpredictable what people will do.  They simply have blinders on, pot/booze adds to it!

 

Then leaving they won't speed up and get going with the tow and barge right behind hot on its tail with the wind,  totally unaware that it's bearing down on them! Right about here they should have hole-shot it to a safer location! But they're baked!

 

 

No perception of what's behind them...

call the cops NARC 

[Simon]

2 hours ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

Just now. Nothing worse than stoned boaters!  These guys stoned outta their mind.  Attempting to roll another one while locking thru...  I told them to blaze it when they get to Lake Michigan. Open flames can ignite fumes low on the water in confined space of the lock chamber. This wasn't a HazMat lockage, why we don't lock anyone with HazMat... Too unpredictable what people will do.  They simply have blinders on, pot/booze adds to it!

 

Then leaving they won't speed up and get going with the tow and barge right behind hot on its tail with the wind,  totally unaware that it's bearing down on them! Right about here they should have hole-shot it to a safer location! But they're baked!

 

No perception of what's behind them...

 

You have no idea of what they did or didn't know, and the only real complaint you can make is that they were going slow and being safe.

You're either trolling again or you're so lacking in self-awareness that your preconceived prejudice is embarrassingly apparent to everybody but you. 

[T&C]

Stoned mods, stoned posters.... this is my place, never forget the 60's I say.