Is Mahomes-Allen the new Brady-Manning? (The Ringer podcast episode)

[Logic]

At the following link, you can find several different links to listen to the podcast, from Spotify to Apple, etc.


https://www.theringer.com/2022/8/9/23298232/patrick-mahomes-josh-allen-new-tom-brady-peyton-manning-nfl-football


Is Mahomes-Allen the New Brady-Manning?

Lindsay Jones and Kevin Clark examine Kansas City’s revamped receiving corps and how they’ll affect Patrick Mahomes’s QB play before discussing Buffalo’s new OC, Ken Dorsey, and speculating whether he’ll be able to elevate Josh Allen’s game to the next level this season.

[Dablitzkrieg]

[ColoradoBills]

The past is the past, I don't like all the comparison stuff.

 

The Mahomes-Allen talk will be over this year.

Next year it will be Allen-Mahomes.

[Warcodered]

8 minutes ago, Logic said:

At the following link, you can find several different links to listen to the podcast, from Spotify to Apple, etc.


https://www.theringer.com/2022/8/9/23298232/patrick-mahomes-josh-allen-new-tom-brady-peyton-manning-nfl-football


Is Mahomes-Allen the New Brady-Manning?

Lindsay Jones and Kevin Clark examine Kansas City’s revamped receiving corps and how they’ll affect Patrick Mahomes’s QB play before discussing Buffalo’s new OC, Ken Dorsey, and speculating whether he’ll be able to elevate Josh Allen’s game to the next level this season.

Elevate Josh's game to the next level? What is he going to transform into Zeus throwing thunderbolts? Not sure how you elevate from where he was at the end of last season.

Edited August 9, 2022 by Warcodered

[Logic]

2 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

Elevate Josh's game to the next level? What is he going to transform into Zeus throwing thunderbolts? Not sure how you elevate from where he was at the end of last season.

Scarily enough, I DON'T think Josh is done growing and improving. I DO think his best football is still ahead of him. I know that's an outlandish notion, but I believe it. I haven't seen any signs that he has hit his ceiling yet.

[Watkins101]

2 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

Elevate Josh's game to the next level? What is he going to transform into Zeus throwing thunderbolts? Not sure how you elevate from where he was at the end of last season.

I don’t know if you can really elevate from where he was at the end of last season (especially the playoffs), but if he can be more consistently at that level, he would be improved for sure. He had a couple games last year that were subpar for sure (Jax, Atlanta’s 3 picks in a row(though he was our offense that game), windy pats game)

[LeGOATski]

I don't think so. You'd need one down to Earth cool guy (Manning) and one super-douchey cheating tool (Brady), but both Allen and Mahomes seem like cool guys.

[Logic]

6 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

The past is the past, I don't like all the comparison stuff.

 

The Mahomes-Allen talk will be over this year.

Next year it will be Allen-Mahomes.

I mean...

If the discussion is "two future Hall of Fame quarterbacks going at it for a decade+, constantly playing for AFC titles, and spurring debates of who really is the best", I don't really care whether Josh's name is listed first or second. 

The mere fact that Allen is now being mentioned as the Brady or Manning of this generation is pretty astonishing. 

What a time to be a Bills fan.

Edited August 9, 2022 by Logic

[The Wiz]

Can allen have Peytons career but both mannings championships?

 

I would be more than fine with that. 

[wjag]

My guess is no.  During the Brady-Manning era, there were not that many elite QBs.

 

The AFC is awash in very good-great QBs.  

 

Any combo of the following could emerge ...

 

Allen

Mahomes

Watson

Herbert

Jackson

Carr

Burrows

 

.. as they are all young,  just getting going now  and QBs can play into their 40s.

[FireChans]

Just now, wjag said:

My guess is no.  During the Brady-Manning era, there were not that many elite QBs.

 

The AFC is awash in very good-great QBs.  

 

Any combo of the following could emerge ...

 

Allen

Mahomes

Watson

Herbert

Jackson

Carr

Burrows

 

.. as they are all young,  just getting going now  and QBs can play into their 40s.

??????

 

Brady

Manning

Rivers

Big Ben

Brees

Rodgers

Ryan

[Gugny]

10 minutes ago, FireChans said:

??????

 

Brady

Manning

Rivers

Big Ben

Brees

Rodgers

Ryan

 

Favre

Eli Manning

 

[FireChans]

Just now, Gugny said:

 

Favre

Eli Manning

 

Flacco depending on the year.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

I see it as the young three + 1 - Allen, Mahomes, Herbert and Rodgers.  Those four are the best four in the game right now.  Burrow, Jackson, Prescott, Russell Wilson and maybe Stafford are the next tier.  Brady is in a category all to himself.  On any given Sunday he can still be the GOAT but he is not consistently as good as he once was.  Then you have enigmas like Watson and Murray, followed by a host of unproven talent in Tua, Hurts, Lance, Fields, Z. Wilson, and Lawrence.  Probably forgetting to mention a few. 

[wjag]

7 minutes ago, FireChans said:

??????

 

Brady

Manning

Rivers

Big Ben

Brees

Rodgers

Ryan

 

Understand but the hidden criteria is you both have to win your division in your conference to play each other a lot to form the rivalry.  I thought about Brady-Big Ben, but it never rose to the level that Brady-Manning did.  Brady-Ben certainly had big games, but it still was second tier to Brady-Manning.  Brees and Rodgers never did either, for whatever reason.  Ryan doesn't belong on the list as Atlanta largely underperformed for his talent level.  Rivers-Manning and Rivers-Brady never rose to that level either.

 

Cross conference match ups don't happen enough to generate true rivalries.  I googled this answer: "Despite playing a combined 37 seasons of pro football, including a combined 31 postseason appearances, Rodgers and Brady have faced each other only three times as starting quarterbacks."  Pretty amazing.

 

and then this:  "Manning and Brady faced off 17 times in this great rivalry that dates back to 2001. The last meeting occurred on Jan. 24, 2016 in the AFC Championship Game which resulted in a 20-18 win for Manning and the Broncos en route to a Super Bowl 50 victory."

 

and then this "Aaron Rodgers of the Green Bay Packers and Drew Brees of the New Orleans Saints have played against each other as starters three times. The Packers won two of those three games, with both of those contests being played at Lambeau Field."

[FireChans]

2 minutes ago, wjag said:

 

Understand but the hidden criteria is you both have to win your division in your conference to play each other a lot to form the rivalry.  I thought about Brady-Big Ben, but it never rose to the level that Brady-Manning did.  Brady-Ben certainly had big games, but it still was second tier to Brady-Manning.  Brees and Rodgers never did either, for whatever reason.  Ryan doesn't belong on the list as Atlanta largely underperformed for his talent level.  Rivers-Manning and Rivers-Brady never rose to that level either.

 

Cross conference match ups don't happen enough to generate true rivalries.  I googled this answer: "Despite playing a combined 37 seasons of pro football, including a combined 31 postseason appearances, Rodgers and Brady have faced each other only three times as starting quarterbacks."  Pretty amazing.

 

and then this:  "Manning and Brady faced off 17 times in this great rivalry that dates back to 2001. The last meeting occurred on Jan. 24, 2016 in the AFC Championship Game which resulted in a 20-18 win for Manning and the Broncos en route to a Super Bowl 50 victory."

 

and then this "Aaron Rodgers of the Green Bay Packers and Drew Brees of the New Orleans Saints have played against each other as starters three times. The Packers won two of those three games, with both of those contests being played at Lambeau Field."

I took more exception with:

 

"During the Brady-Manning era, there were not that many elite QBs."

 

Which is just not true. There were a ton.

 

Now yes, Brees and Brady weren't rivals really because they didn't play each other a lot.  Brady and Manning didn't become rivals just because they played against each other a lot, but because there was MASSIVE debate over which one of them was the best QB in the NFL. 

 

People don't remember because his game evolved a TON over his career, but early in Brady's career he wasn't putting up the Star Wars numbers that Peyton was. Peyton had the numbers, Brady had the hardware.  But constantly from like 2003 - 2012 the debate was "who is the best QB in the NFL, Peyton or Brady."

 

Guys like Big Ben/Rivers etc etc never really entered that conversation. Brees peeked in a couple seasons.

 

Similarly, going forward, I could EASILY see Mahomes/Allen debated as the best QB in the NFL for at least the next 7 years.  Derek Carr ain't likely gonna end up in that conversation.

[RoyBatty is alive]

53 minutes ago, Watkins101 said:

I don’t know if you can really elevate from where he was at the end of last season (especially the playoffs), but if he can be more consistently at that level, he would be improved for sure. He had a couple games last year that were subpar for sure (Jax, Atlanta’s 3 picks in a row(though he was our offense that game), windy pats game)

I agree 100%.

 

At the end of last yea we possible the best QB play ever, expecting better paly is unrealistic but consistency ifs the issue .Atlanta I think was a fluke, i think Beasley ran a wrong route and the other two ints were deflections.  The Jax game was truly disappointing, the entire team look out of it.  How we go beat by a rookie QB and an Urban Meyer coached team is hard to fathom.  The windy Pats game i blame on mcd and Dabol.

[AuntieEm]

1 hour ago, Logic said:

Scarily enough, I DON'T think Josh is done growing and improving. I DO think his best football is still ahead of him. I know that's an outlandish notion, but I believe it. I haven't seen any signs that he has hit his ceiling yet.

 

   I certainly agree with you.  He is indeed a unicorn amongst unicorns even.  There's a reason that Patrick Mahomes sought out Allen immediately after that game before celebrating.  Talent recognizes talent and they know amongst themselves who may have the better game overall.  Think it really falls on supporting cast surrounding them any given game who will be the victor.   They both elevate players around them so the team with the most elevatees wins.  Loss of Tyreek Hill may be a big difference in the games between Allen - Mahomes.  Certain I would hate to face KC without Diggs or  a number of other weapons the Bills deploy.  Even so I still worry less with Josh as he uses so many of his weapons.  He has his favorite goto's but they are fluid in he easily goes to another option when they take his fave away.

 

 

 

Edited August 9, 2022 by AuntieEm

[billybrew1]

Unfortunately, the Bills and their fans aren’t lucky enough to live in a two QB world….

Herbert and Burrow are simply too good to ignore…are they as good? No, but they are true franchise QBs on good teams.

I will say I think the Bills with Josh Allen are going to beat the rams because Josh is better than Stafford and because most fans are completely underestimating how much the rams lost this offseason. Yes, our secondary won’t be ready on opening day but either will their’s.

 

 

[wjag]

18 minutes ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

I agree 100%.

 

At the end of last yea we possible the best QB play ever, expecting better paly is unrealistic but consistency ifs the issue .Atlanta I think was a fluke, i think Beasley ran a wrong route and the other two ints were deflections.  The Jax game was truly disappointing, the entire team look out of it.  How we go beat by a rookie QB and an Urban Meyer coached team is hard to fathom.  The windy Pats game i blame on mcd and Dabol.

 

Teams that gave the Bills fits last year all had a good to great pass rush.  Including Jacksonville where Allen v Allen went to Allen.  Let's hope Kromer improves both the run blocking and pass blocking.  I don't care how good you are, if your OLINE is a sieve, it ain't happening.