7 Bills players that are trending up and down (per Joe B)

[BADOLBILZ]

33 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

It doesn't work like that either, obviously.  They beat the Chiefs with Mathieu earlier in the season.

 

 

And nobody thinks regular season intensity is like playoff intensity.

 

One thing Bills fans won't admit is that the Bills just ran into the hottest offense in the NFL that week.

 

The misconception is that the Bills were the best offense in football in that moment..........they had played a great game the week prior..........but the Chiefs had been lighting it up for the prior 6 weeks.   They averaged 38 points in the 5 meaningful games(they sat starters in finale) prior to playing Buffalo.   

[Doc]

14 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

And nobody thinks regular season intensity is like playoff intensity.

 

One thing Bills fans won't admit is that the Bills just ran into the hottest offense in the NFL that week.

 

The misconception is that the Bills were the best offense in football in that moment..........they had played a great game the week prior..........but the Chiefs had been lighting it up for the prior 6 weeks.   They averaged 38 points in the 5 meaningful games(they sat starters in finale) prior to playing Buffalo.   

 

That's entirely your opinion and you are in the vast minority there.  Talking about intensity, after what the Josh and the Bills' offense did to the Cheaters (i.e. something that's never been done before in the history of the NFL, much less against a Belicheat defense) and their performance against the Chefs, people wanted to see more of them.  And I'd have taken the trade of Mathieu playing if it meant White played.

 

This all could have been rendered moot had Farwell gotten the KO change to Bass and the Chefs never had the chance to tie-it-up, even without White.  But as I've said, the Bills lost the SB when White went down.

Edited August 7, 2022 by Doc

[BillsShredder83]

On 8/5/2022 at 8:04 PM, Shaw66 said:

The real concern is cornerback.   A fair appraisal of the corners to date in camp would be, I think, that the Bills do not have one dependable corner on the field.   White's not there, Elam isn't lighting it up, Jackson is struggling, Bedford has made a little noise but no one is saying he's ready for prime time.   

 

Am I worried?   Well, yes, in the short term.  Two underperforming corners on the field would be a problem against most teams.  But White should be back - I'd guess at least by October, and the guys who are struggling now all will be learning, week-by-week.   Barring injury, the Bills should be okay when the Bills get to crunch time in the second half of the season.  

 

The problem seems similar on the offensive line.   Bates SHOULD be back and Saffold SHOULD be back, but until they're back, they aren't, and it isn't so clear who fills in for them.  At least Quessenberry should be able to fill in for Brown with decent play.   As Bates comes on line, and Saffold, and if Brown can get back on the field and able to play, the line will rise to the challenge.  

 

It's football.  There's always something.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

Quessenberry had some of the worst OL stats I've ever seen. I understand stats don't tell the whole story, buy the sacks he gave up was disgustingly unforgivable.

 

I haven't seen his camp reps but he scares me

[BADOLBILZ]

28 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

That's entirely your opinion and you are in the vast minority there.  Talking about intensity, after what the Josh and the Bills' offense did to the Cheaters (i.e. something that's never been done before in the history of the NFL, much less against a Belicheat defense) and their performance against the Chefs, people wanted to see more of them.  And I'd have taken the trade of Mathieu playing if it meant White played.

 

This all could have been rendered moot had Farwell gotten the KO change to Bass and the Chefs never had the chance to tie-it-up, even without White.  But as I've said, the Bills lost the SB when White went down.

 

 

The Chiefs were far superior to the Bills offensively in the divisional game...........you should probably look at the box score rather than going from memory.

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/matchup?gameId=401326633

 

130 more total yards is A LOT more.

 

Dominated the Bills on the ground........180 yards rushing.........including Mahomes outrushing Allen and averaging 10 yards per carry doing it.

 

Passed for significantly more yardage than Buffalo and had a much better 3rd down conversion %........which was very much a factor of Mahomes running the ball so effectively.

 

The Chiefs basically only trailed the Bills for part of the first quarter and what?  1:13 seconds or so at the end of regulation?

 

The Chiefs controlled the game...........the ending might "have been rendered moot" had Chiefs made the very makable field goal right before halftime.

 

Josh Allen played great and the Bills almost snuck out of there with a win but they absolutely did not outplay the Chiefs on either side of the ball.

 

 

Edited August 7, 2022 by BADOLBILZ

[Shaw66]

1 hour ago, BillsShredder83 said:

Quessenberry had some of the worst OL stats I've ever seen. I understand stats don't tell the whole story, buy the sacks he gave up was disgustingly unforgivable.

 

I haven't seen his camp reps but he scares me

True. There's a reason offensive linemen become free agents, and its not good.

[John from Riverside]

2 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Doesn't work that way, obviously.

 

White played in the AFCCG the year prior and they were blown out by halftime.

 

Also, the Chiefs played that divisional game without their best DB(Tyrann Mathieu) as well.

 

 

You can’t take a game from one year compared to a game from another year without putting contacts in the situation

 

We were blown out in the previous year it wasn’t like we were trading touchdowns like we were in the following year all we needed was one stop

[Doc]

8 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

The Chiefs were far superior to the Bills offensively in the divisional game...........you should probably look at the box score rather than going from memory.

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/matchup?gameId=401326633

 

130 more total yards is A LOT more.

 

Dominated the Bills on the ground........180 yards rushing.........including Mahomes outrushing Allen and averaging 10 yards per carry doing it.

 

Passed for significantly more yardage than Buffalo and had a much better 3rd down conversion %........which was very much a factor of Mahomes running the ball so effectively.

 

The Chiefs basically only trailed the Bills for part of the first quarter and what?  1:13 seconds or so at the end of regulation?

 

The Chiefs controlled the game...........the ending might "have been rendered moot" had Chiefs made the very makable field goal right before halftime.

 

Josh Allen played great and the Bills almost snuck out of there with a win but they absolutely did not outplay the Chiefs on either side of the ball.

 

The Chefs had 2 more drives than the Bills.  It's not the yards that win games.  And if not for random chance of a coin flip, they would have won the game in OT if they had gotten the ball first.

[SCBills]

10 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

I'm not all-in on that approach.

 

Moving up for a franchise QB?  Sure.   

 

Moving up for the 5th CB on the board in round 1 when you play a system that doesn't put that players proven strengths(man coverage) to ideal use?  Eh.

 

And trading back and back and back to get a RB in round 2 is still picking a RB in round 2.    People love them some runnin' bax but they impact fantasy football a lot more than actual game results.   A lot of folks can't wrap their heads around it but throwing the ball to an actual WR produces more in the long run than dumping it off to even the best receiving RB.  And when the playoffs arrive the LOS gets a lot more hotly contested and if you are wedded to running the ball because you want to use your star RB.......there is a good chance you are going home early.    Ask the Saints how having to feed Alvin Kamara in the playoffs worked out.

 

The Cody Ford trade-up raises the important question of whether NEED itself is clouding how the board is stacked in the first place.   How does Cody Ford.........with glaring athletic concerns.........end up in the Bills top 40 overall prospects?   If you aren't thinking about needing a player at a certain position..........maybe you grade  players more objectively. 

I agree with some of what you, in premise.. but there’s also the reality of how the draft board falls. 
 

Unless we wanted to be ultra-aggressive and/or reach, it was not a good draft for us to take a WR early.  
 

We’ll see if Shakir is truly the “Day 2 guy who fell to Day 3” steal that everyone says, but - as a guy who really wanted a WR early - I don’t know where we were supposed to go. 
 

Honest question.. have you watched James Cook play?  I live in SEC country, surrounded by Dawgs fans, that dude could easily be a WR.  It seemed to me, at that point in the draft, we just took the best weapon on the board.  Happened to be a RB. 
 

I could be persuaded that Jermaine Johnson may have been a better pick for our system over Elam.  We’ll see how these guys pan out.. but we didn’t lose games defensively because of our corner situation, they were lost due to the DL not being stout against power run teams or being able to finish against top QB’s.   We’ve obviously addressed those two concerns, but I have zero issue going overkill on the lines. 

[Doc]

17 minutes ago, SCBills said:

I agree with some of what you, in premise.. but there’s also the reality of how the draft board falls. 
 

Unless we wanted to be ultra-aggressive and/or reach, it was not a good draft for us to take a WR early.  
 

We’ll see if Shakir is truly the “Day 2 guy who fell to Day 3” steal that everyone says, but - as a guy who really wanted a WR early - I don’t know where we were supposed to go. 
 

Honest question.. have you watched James Cook play?  I live in SEC country, surrounded by Dawgs fans, that dude could easily be a WR.  It seemed to me, at that point in the draft, we just took the best weapon on the board.  Happened to be a RB. 
 

I could be persuaded that Jermaine Johnson may have been a better pick for our system over Elam.  We’ll see how these guys pan out.. but we didn’t lose games defensively because of our corner situation, they were lost due to the DL not being stout against power run teams or being able to finish against top QB’s.   We’ve obviously addressed those two concerns, but I have zero issue going overkill on the lines. 

 

I disagree on the CB situation.  I think they would have beaten the Bucs and Chefs (the 2nd time) with White playing.  And that's one area they weren't able to address in FA.  If they had a 1st round grade on Elam and especially if he was the last player with a 1st round grade left on their board, then I have zero problem with them trading-up to get him because he was both need and BPA.  But he'll need to play to that draft status ultimately (as will every rookie that they could have chosen instead).

 

As for Cook, yeah, the receiving skills are what sets him apart.  Not that he's a slouch running the ball.  Maybe not a workhorse but he definitely adds something to the offense, and a lot of people complaining about the pick have been complaining they didn't do enough for the offense.

[BearNorth]

1 hour ago, SCBills said:

 

Honest question.. have you watched James Cook play?  I live in SEC country, surrounded by Dawgs fans, that dude could easily be a WR.  It seemed to me, at that point in the draft, we just took the best weapon on the board.  Happened to be a RB. 
 

Perhaps Deebo 2.0?  Nice tool for Josh's toolkit if he figures out how to pass block.

 

[BADOLBILZ]

2 hours ago, SCBills said:

I agree with some of what you, in premise.. but there’s also the reality of how the draft board falls. 
 

Unless we wanted to be ultra-aggressive and/or reach, it was not a good draft for us to take a WR early.  
 

We’ll see if Shakir is truly the “Day 2 guy who fell to Day 3” steal that everyone says, but - as a guy who really wanted a WR early - I don’t know where we were supposed to go. 
 

Honest question.. have you watched James Cook play?  I live in SEC country, surrounded by Dawgs fans, that dude could easily be a WR.  It seemed to me, at that point in the draft, we just took the best weapon on the board.  Happened to be a RB. 
 

I could be persuaded that Jermaine Johnson may have been a better pick for our system over Elam.  We’ll see how these guys pan out.. but we didn’t lose games defensively because of our corner situation, they were lost due to the DL not being stout against power run teams or being able to finish against top QB’s.   We’ve obviously addressed those two concerns, but I have zero issue going overkill on the lines. 

 

I follow college football..........and acutely the Miami HS prospects like Cook.

 

He's good and I am sure he will fill his role fine.

 

But Cook is just a RB.  Alvin Kamara is also just a RB.  

 

If they could move out to the boundary and be like a Diggs or Davis they would have........that's where the money is at.

 

And with the exception of Cooper Kupp.........slot receivers aren't much harder to find than RB's......so whether it's true or not that Cook or Kamara could be a slot receiver........it's not the game changing dynamic that people expect(especially people pining for the LONG lost days of Thurman Thomas and 260# LB's who ran 5 second 40's).

 

In truth, the Bills should probably also be playing Diggs a lot more in the slot like the Rams do with Kupp instead of playing a far lesser talent like McKenzie(for example)......... but they simply don't those much more valuable boundary options to do so.   

 

The stats about RB's in the pass game don't lie.......a completion to a good slot receiver generally yields 2-3 more yards than one to even the best pass receiving RB like Kamara or McCaffrey.

 

This is why "3rd down backs" are basically extinct.

 

Initially having a RB who averages 8 yards per reception will cause a little friction in the jeans of RB thirsty Bills fans but the underlying opportunity cost of dumping the ball down a lot instead of pushing it further upfield adds up.

 

 

 

Edited August 7, 2022 by BADOLBILZ

[BADOLBILZ]

3 hours ago, Doc said:

 

The Chefs had 2 more drives than the Bills.  It's not the yards that win games.  And if not for random chance of a coin flip, they would have won the game in OT if they had gotten the ball first.

 

 

Yep.......having the ball two less times hurt..........but the Chiefs put up 120+ more yards with those 2 drives and 2 of their drives were stopped only by the clock(end of first half and regulation).

 

But they also gifted the Bills with two unforced errors.......a missed field goal and extra point...........if they just convert as expected the Chiefs win in regulation.

 

The Bills didn't get the coin luck but they also weren't the better team that day............they made a late run lead by a great performance by their QB and almost stole one.

 

But 3 quarters of having to defend both the run and pass against the hottest offense they could have run into took the ability to finish out of the back 7 of their defense.    The Bills coaching staff played them into a close game with some conservative offensive play calling in the 3rd quarter and it was as if they couldn't see the stress and exhaustion that was putting on the back 7 of their defense.  I fail to see how Tre White makes a difference when it was the 180 yards on the ground......much of it by Mahomes scrambling after not being able to find an open receiver...........that hurt them more than anything.    White would have been just as gassed as Jordan Poyer at the end of that game.    

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, BearNorth said:

Perhaps Deebo 2.0?  Nice tool for Josh's toolkit if he figures out how to pass block.

 

 

 

Deebo is a legit boundary WR option in the NFL...........and is 20 pounds heavier than Cook.........a physical RB in addition to having similar quickness and COD as Cook but with bigger hands and leaping ability to increase his catch radius.

 

Cook is more of a scatback.   He'll be good but Deebo's impact on a defense is punishing..........tackling him is a business decision.    Cook won't bring that.

[mrags]

11 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Yep.......having the ball two less times hurt..........but the Chiefs put up 120+ more yards with those 2 drives and 2 of their drives were stopped only by the clock(end of first half and regulation).

 

But they also gifted the Bills with two unforced errors.......a missed field goal and extra point...........if they just convert as expected the Chiefs win in regulation.

 

The Bills didn't get the coin luck but they also weren't the better team that day............they made a late run lead by a great performance by their QB and almost stole one.

 

But 3 quarters of having to defend both the run and pass against the hottest offense they could have run into took the ability to finish out of the back 7 of their defense.    The Bills coaching staff played them into a close game with some conservative offensive play calling in the 3rd quarter and it was as if they couldn't see the stress and exhaustion that was putting on the back 7 of their defense.  I fail to see how Tre White makes a difference when it was the 180 yards on the ground......much of it by Mahomes scrambling after not being able to find an open receiver...........that hurt them more than anything.    White would have been just as gassed as Jordan Poyer at the end of that game.    

I don’t have the information in front of me. And I probably don’t have it written down anymore. But… the day after that game I wrote down a breakdown of the stats from that game. I believe you are incorrect that the Chiefs controlled that game. 
 

If I remember correctly, Mahomes ended up having close to 200 yards passing and 2 or 3 TDs between the last 2 drives of the game and OT. Hill was held to a pretty low number as well. 
 

it all came on the last 2 drives and OT. One of which was a long TD to Hill where he sliced through our defense. Where our defense missed tackles all over the field. 
 

anyway, I think before the last 10 minutes or so that game was very close as far as stats were concerned. 
 

but at the end of the day you don’t go by stats. There was a small portion of that game where I felt like things could be getting away from us, and then Josh threw an incredible ball for a 70 yards TD to Davis and we were right back into it. 

[BADOLBILZ]

7 minutes ago, mrags said:

I don’t have the information in front of me. And I probably don’t have it written down anymore. But… the day after that game I wrote down a breakdown of the stats from that game. I believe you are incorrect that the Chiefs controlled that game. 
 

If I remember correctly, Mahomes ended up having close to 200 yards passing and 2 or 3 TDs between the last 2 drives of the game and OT. Hill was held to a pretty low number as well. 
 

it all came on the last 2 drives and OT. One of which was a long TD to Hill where he sliced through our defense. Where our defense missed tackles all over the field. 
 

anyway, I think before the last 10 minutes or so that game was very close as far as stats were concerned. 
 

but at the end of the day you don’t go by stats. There was a small portion of that game where I felt like things could be getting away from us, and then Josh threw an incredible ball for a 70 yards TD to Davis and we were right back into it. 

 

 

Yes........the Bills pass coverage wasn't the issue for most of the game..........but the rushing yardage allowed was........especially Mahomes averaging 10 yards per rush every time he couldn't find an open receiver and tucked and ran..........those drive extending plays just ground the back 7 to a nub by the end of the game.

 

The Chiefs defense........which was a far lesser unit than the one the Bills marched onto the field.........was similarly exhausted and it's not a coincidence that Allen went off throwing the ball at the end of the game as well.

 

For some reason it's lost on a lot of fans that the difference between these two teams hasn't been defense......the Bills defense is better.

 

It's been less consistent offense, lesser coaching, lesser composure and a hostile venue that have been the difference.    The latter impacts the 3 former, IMO.

 

I'd rather have those 2 playoff games IN BUFFALO and without Tre White than in KC with Tre White.  

  

[Doc]

3 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

Yep.......having the ball two less times hurt..........but the Chiefs put up 120+ more yards with those 2 drives and 2 of their drives were stopped only by the clock(end of first half and regulation).

 

But they also gifted the Bills with two unforced errors.......a missed field goal and extra point...........if they just convert as expected the Chiefs win in regulation.

 

The Bills didn't get the coin luck but they also weren't the better team that day............they made a late run lead by a great performance by their QB and almost stole one.

 

But 3 quarters of having to defend both the run and pass against the hottest offense they could have run into took the ability to finish out of the back 7 of their defense.    The Bills coaching staff played them into a close game with some conservative offensive play calling in the 3rd quarter and it was as if they couldn't see the stress and exhaustion that was putting on the back 7 of their defense.  I fail to see how Tre White makes a difference when it was the 180 yards on the ground......much of it by Mahomes scrambling after not being able to find an open receiver...........that hurt them more than anything.    White would have been just as gassed as Jordan Poyer at the end of that game.    

 

Regarding Butker and the 2PC, I'm less concerned about unforced errors since there were many on the Bills' side as well.  It's a game played by humans and players make mistakes (not that a 50-yarder is a gimmee) given the intensity of the playoffs.

 

But the 2 extra possessions accounted for 119 more yards and 10 more points.  The Chefs needed 1 more drive to tie it in regulation and the other won it in OT.  I have no doubt the Bills win that game if they win the coin flip.  So...random chance.

 

Beyond that, I still say that White would have helped tip the scales, even if Mathieu played, again based on the earlier matchup.  We'll agree to disagree.

 

3 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

I hope Im wrong but the off-season moves suggest to play to what McDermott likes to do in game…. Lean on his defense while playing conservative offensively…. I don’t think McD regrets those conservative  play calls and subsequent decisions to punt one bit… that’s just how he wants to play it IMO. 

 

Please.  He's not going to take the ball out of Josh's hands.  Cook was selected for his passing abilities as well as running.  :Rolleyes:

Edited August 7, 2022 by Doc

[mrags]

15 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Yes........the Bills pass coverage wasn't the issue for most of the game..........but the rushing yardage allowed was........especially Mahomes averaging 10 yards per rush every time he couldn't find an open receiver and tucked and ran..........those drive extending plays just ground the back 7 to a nub by the end of the game.

 

The Chiefs defense........which was a far lesser unit than the one the Bills marched onto the field.........was similarly exhausted and it's not a coincidence that Allen went off throwing the ball at the end of the game as well.

 

For some reason it's lost on a lot of fans that the difference between these two teams hasn't been defense......the Bills defense is better.

 

It's been less consistent offense, lesser coaching, lesser composure and a hostile venue that have been the difference.    The latter impacts the 3 former, IMO.

 

I'd rather have those 2 playoff games IN BUFFALO and without Tre White than in KC with Tre White.  

  

I will 100% agree with coaching. Imo we lost that game because of coaching. Play calling and game plan, when the game was on the line. It’s been talked about ad nauseam. But for the time that KC had left and the 3 timeouts, with the field position they had, we screwed up. No reason to cover the sidelines, no reason to play so far off the LOS. It was a general blunder in coaching and it cost us a game that in theory we were the winners of work 13 seconds left. Shouldn’t have happened the way it did. But it did. And we can only hope that McDermott and the coaching staff has learned from their failures. 
 

that and the fact that we let Levi go and replaced him with a better CB. 

[Doc]

1 hour ago, ScottLaw said:

We’ll see… two years in a row against KC he’s reverted back to coaching scared… similar to the championship game they started out with some initial aggression on offense to only go back and turtle to a conservative style before they were forced to get aggressive due to the score.

 

Wait, what is "playing scared"?  Running the ball?  They ran it just 13 times in the last game, not counting Josh's scrambles, with only 10 of those being by a RB (Singletary).  Meanwhile the Chefs ran it 19 times, with 17 of those by RBs. 

[Doc]

7 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

They went into a conservative shell offensively with KCs best secondary player out for the game… too much underneath stuff, forcing the ball to the backs…early 2nd quarter they went 3 and out on a drive with great field position with 3 straight runs to Singletary….completely unacceptable with Allen as your QB in the biggest game of the year….can’t afford to waste possessions like that…. And then the punt on 4th and 1 was pitiful IMO.

 

Punting from your 34 on 4th and 1 when the score is 14-17 is pitiful?  OK.  And Daboll called the plays, not McD.

 

Can you tell me how many coaches have gone for it in a similar situation?

[BADOLBILZ]

2 hours ago, Doc said:

 

Wait, what is "playing scared"?  Running the ball?  They ran it just 13 times in the last game, not counting Josh's scrambles, with only 10 of those being by a RB (Singletary).  Meanwhile the Chefs ran it 19 times, with 17 of those by RBs. 

 

 

What Scott is referring to is taking the ball out of Josh Allen's hands late in series that killed a couple drives.

 

The yards that really killed the Bills on the ground were made by Mahomes...........he averaged 10 yards per rush and accounted for approx 40% of their rushing yardage.    Allen ran more but was significantly less productive.    Mahomes was lethal to the Bills on the ground that night.

 

In the regular season you might take the ball out of Allen's hands some on 3rd downs but they shouldn't have done so in such a high leverage situation in that 3rd quarter against an offense like KC's.    They made an inaccurate assessment that their defense would be up to the task of playing field position football against a KC offense that had held the lead for a long time at that point.