Training Camp practice 8/4

[folz]

44 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

 

 

Seeing these interviews, thinking of something that feels different this year, this team seems comfortable in who they are now. Like this team has been this young up and coming team for a while and you could kind of feel that in interviews. Now it feels like they know who they are and they're not so much trying to be that as they are that and are more focused on the big goal.

 

Shout out to the players that helped McDermott turn this culture around. The six guys who have been there since the very beginning of the McDermott Era (six years now), through all of the ups and downs. Can't wait to see them celebrate with a Lombardi one of these days:

 

Micah Hyde

Jordan Poyer

Tre'Davius White

Matt Milano

Dion Dawkins

Reid Ferguson

 

Honorable mention to Shaq Lawson, who was also on the team in 2017, 2018, and 2019. But of course, he was gone for two years before coming back. But him coming back shows that he has that "DNA" that they look for.

 

 

And to Warcodered's comment above, I couldn't agree more. Just watched the NFL Films 2021 Buffalo Bills Yearbook video and there were a few times (TB and KC playoff game) that Stefon Diggs was on the sideline shouting to his teammates, "THIS IS WHO WE ARE!" They didn't have that at the start of last year (that swagger, that confidence top to bottom), but boy do they seem to have it now.

 

Speaking of which, I have a feeling that we are going to be pleasantly surprised by Tremaine Edmunds this year. Everything I've seen of him---interviews, when NFL Network had him mic'ed up, the way other players and coaches are speaking of him, etc.---he seems like a different guy: more mature, more comfortable, more vocal, more aggressive on the practice field. And with the much improved D-line in front of him, I wouldn't be surprised if Tremaine has a big year/takes a big step forward.

 

[ColoradoBills]

10 minutes ago, Buffalo Boy said:

   That would have to come down from McD…..

    I hate to come off my high but both of them are Old Dawgs who I’m not sure are capable of New tricks.

    My hope is a real breakout from One or two of Epenesa, Groot, Basham. I feel like Oliver is poised to have his best, most disruptive season. 
    This should lead to more turnovers and a more frequent short field for the O. 
    When that happens it’s almost like a feedback loop where they just start playing way beyond what we are used to….,and not just againt the crap teams. Last years # 1 rank was hollow . I want to see real, consistent domination and I think it’s a distinct possibility.

 

I know, thus my "wondering" if it could happen.  If it did, I could see a bit of a change in how the LBs/NCB play.

At least that's what I would keep an eye on.

[K-9]

2 hours ago, Doc said:

He was the farthest WR on the left side.  You can count 11 players in plain view.

 

 

The moving slot position...

I just assumed he was inside a wideout to the left. Should have done what you did and counted first. Oops.

[Shaw66]

51 minutes ago, Logic said:

Joe Buscaglia of The Athletic is the guy primarily beating the "Elam is struggling" drum.

I've read elsewhere -- including from Matt Parrino yesterday or the day before -- that he's getting better and better as camp goes on.

We're talking about a rookie going primarily against Stefon Diggs every day -- one of the best route runners in the league. I would EXPECT him to struggle at this point.

I think it was Thad Brown who recently said that so far, when Elam can get hands on a receiver, he can stone even Stefon Diggs. When he DOESN'T get hands on a receiver, he can be beat by bottom-of-the-roster guys. That was the book on him coming out, too: needs to learn to be less grabby and to win more without his hands. Its why they had him in boxing gloves for a practice or two.

John Butler, Leslie Frazier, and Sean McDermott is as good a trio as a corner could ever hope to learn from, and he's going against elite WRs every day. I expect him to be just fine in the long run. That said, it DOES sound as though sixth rounder Christian Benford might be outplaying him to this point, which is exciting.

Thanks for this.  Great summary.   

 

I agree with you.  Every day he's head to head with Diggs and Davis, and once in a while he's seeing McKenzie or Shakir.   That's a serious learning experience.  

 

We know he's McBeane pick, which means he's committed to continuous improvement and excellence.   He's got to be learning a lot.    

 

He'll have some rookie issues, for sure.   I suppose the biggest question is whether he's learning the scheme well.   I get the sense that there are subtle adjustments each DB is expected to make, and he didn't do much of anything like that in college.  

 

I, too, was intrigued by the ongoing news about Benford.   I think the scouting reports suggest he's another student-of-the-game type, and that kind of guy could take time from Elam, or maybe even Jackson.   Especially if the D line is producing, the Bills could afford a guy whose measurables may be below Elam but who really understands the nuances of the defense.   It's what I've been saying about Bernard, too.  If Beane found a starting corner in sixth round, and Elam works out sooner rather than later, the Bills could be remarkably deep at corner when White returns.   

 

 

[Shaw66]

2 hours ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

My anticipation of the DL being much more disruptive than we have seen in the past, I'm wondering if it eventually results in a change

of scheme for the whole D.  If that does happen, I wonder how long it takes Frazier to implement some changes and what those could be.

I don't know why people persist in expecting McDermott is going to change his style that one of us or another of us likes better.   McDermott has been extraordinarily consistent and insistent that he will play defense with four down linemen, with a rotation, and he's going to expect to get the pressure he needs from those four.   He doesn't want to blitz.   He may disguise what's coming, in that he'll show six on the line, but you know that almost all the time, only four are coming.  Which four is the question.  

 

He wants pressure from four because he can cover the routes with seven.   He needs seven back.   With pressure from four and seven back, he can stop drives.   He's a little weak against the run in that scheme - you always have to give up something - but a good defense can survive getting hurt in the run to some extent.  

 

He's not changing from that until the offensive styles in the NFL change, until the game shifts back to being run-dominant instead of pass dominant.   I don't see that happening soon, because the passing game is a better tv game.   

 

You should be used to 4-3 and 4-2 by now, and don't expect it change just because the personnel has changed.  

[Warcodered]

 

[stevewin]

Random thoughts on today's practice

 

- Cloudy and drizzly to start - was afraid for a bit we were going to get wet, but turned out to be another perfect cloudy day for watching

- Maddy Glab making the walk from the building to the tunnel again with McKenzie

- Dion and Groot walked from the building to practice field together

- Hells Bells to start practice - Nice

- Before practice the kickers were at midfield throwing balls 10-15 yds to each other - Araiza and Bass, and Haack, first with a staff guy, then Ferguson.   Bass probably has the best ball - a nice spiral, but could work on his mechanics throws very sidearm

- FWIW - I noticed today that Araiza and Bass spent a lot of time together hanging out and talking - many times with Haack either off to the side or with Ferguson.  That was not how it was earlier this week

- Another long ST session, another session Knox and Howard subjected to 'focused instruction' from TE coach.  OL was doing a drill for a while where they hit the sled straight ahead then released to block another guy to the side

- Before practice started Singletary went over and hugged one of the refs.  Not sure if these are NFL game refs, but if they are every bit helps 

- Von throwing ball into stands got the crowd going.  Most noteworhty part of that activity was the same dude caught it from him two times in a row

- Black Sabbath - War Pigs!  🤘

- The defense went to the side field a lot this week

- Before one drill started Beane was standing on the sideline talking to someone and Josh was at midfield and skipped a ball at him - just to keep him on his toes

- The next section of practice, the 2 QBs were throwing routes to TE's on either side, very quick pace - then when everyone went through the QBs would run 20 yds to meet the guys who already ran the routes do it again the other way.  Later they repeated it with WRs.  During this time the TEs or WRs (whoever wasn't working with the QBs at the time) were working together, and the OL was in the far EZ running drills.  I have to say, this was the best 15 minutes I ever witnessed at camp.  The pace, the focus, the attention, the efficiency - it was so impressive - I was kind of blown away.  Every guy in every drill was just dialed in - guys that weren't in on reps were still paying attention.  There was no music, dancing or goofing or staring off - it was just all business, all across the field - to a man.  Crisp.  Everything was just running like clockwork  - may sound stupid but it was like when they say a choregraphed ballet - it was really something

- Yesterday I listened to the Sirius Movin the Chains broadcast from the other day and Kirwin noted how far ahead the Bills are than the teams of many of the camps they've visited so far.  He was mostly talking about installatons and packages, but overall they really seem extremely organized and on their game at this stage

- At the end of the drill Josh and McKenzie talked for at least a minute on some route - there is so much of that that goes on

- Diggs one handed catch was ridiculous

- Receivers seemed very physical today - when you see all the clips of them going over releases with Hall - that's a real thing they use - lot of contact and handfighting getting into routes - very physical, seems like they prob also like the oppty to get some shots at DBs too

- There's a real hard core battle between WRs and DBs.  Each one love to celebrate when they get over on the other.  On the long Shakir TD the whole WR corps actually ran down the field to celebrate with him - some I'm sure to rub in the D's face

- 11-11 started with O on own goal line.  1st team D was tenacious - man that was some tough sledding for the O to try to get out of the shadow

- One play Shaq ended up on his back (didn't see how), and Van Roten (sounds like a wrestling name) jumped on Shaq's chest and did a 3 count

- Von was on left side more today.  They were moving guys around the front.  One time Von was on left side w/ Reousseau next to him - two other times I saw Von on left side with Oliver next to him.  Saw a couple stunts too where Von crossed and crashed the middle

- Running up the middle on the first team D - forget about it.  Just a wall.  There was one play, however, where Duke J did bust through the line for 10-15 yds - but then he paid the price for this boldness when Neal came over and just rocked the dude to the ground.  I guess Neal was following the rules of practice and didn't technically tackle him - he killed him

- There was one other play that Singletary got outside for a gain but they called a hold.  There were just no answers running against the D - after getting stonewalled up the middle they tried to get to the edge a few times but the pursuit of the D was too much there

- Oh - Tremaine two plays in a row busts up the gut and smothers the ball carrier TFL

- I saw Benford run some with the 1st team opposite Elam

- I think "scuffles" are the most overhyped thing - just someone reacting in the moment, then it's done and forgotten - but some people will try to make more of it

- While the 11-11 was still going on /w 3rd string, Von walked over to the VIP tent and held his baby for a bit - that's when you know you're a superstar 

- Goal line session - D stout again, but Singletary did have a nice cut back for TD.  For 2nd team Duke scored on roll out pass nice catch and finish and also powered up the middle.  He had a good day with the twos

- I caught a T-shirt on the way out

- On way back listening to OBL they had Baldy on who said he talked to Von before practice about Rousseau.  Von said he's not as focused about trying to teach Rousseau technique or effort - but rather the mental aspect.  With that context it was interesting to then see Von's comment in PC about feeding Rousseau "gunpowder and gasoline" 

 

That's it for my time at St John Fisher this year - so glad I got to spend some more days at camp with my Dad.  Next week back to the real world.

 

 

Edited August 4, 2022 by stevewin

[ColoradoBills]

9 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I don't know why people persist in expecting McDermott is going to change his style that one of us or another of us likes better.   McDermott has been extraordinarily consistent and insistent that he will play defense with four down linemen, with a rotation, and he's going to expect to get the pressure he needs from those four.   He doesn't want to blitz.   He may disguise what's coming, in that he'll show six on the line, but you know that almost all the time, only four are coming.  Which four is the question.  

 

He wants pressure from four because he can cover the routes with seven.   He needs seven back.   With pressure from four and seven back, he can stop drives.   He's a little weak against the run in that scheme - you always have to give up something - but a good defense can survive getting hurt in the run to some extent.  

 

He's not changing from that until the offensive styles in the NFL change, until the game shifts back to being run-dominant instead of pass dominant.   I don't see that happening soon, because the passing game is a better tv game.   

 

You should be used to 4-3 and 4-2 by now, and don't expect it change just because the personnel has changed.  

 

What I meant (and probably didn't do a good job of it) was IF the DL can disrupt the QB and stuff the run game much more than the

past the LBs will be freed up more.  This could change the scheme (not greatly) as to how they are used.

 

I can see Milano and Edmunds having more impact plays is that happens.

[Augie]

37 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Thad has also been beating the “offense looks meh” drum. 

 

If this defense is doing well, the offense sucks. If the offense is doing well, the defense sucks. I enjoy this annual ritual we play. It’s a classic! 

 

Just be ready for the Rams, then roll from there. The thing I care about most right now is entering the season as healthy as possible. 

[Logic]

1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

It's so weird to read how two reporters can watch the same practices and come away with wildly different conclusions. Here's Joe Buscaglia about today's practice:

https://theathletic.com/3478869/2022/08/04/bills-camp-observations-james-cook-zack-moss/

 

Jackson typifies cornerback struggles

One mostly underwhelming spot for the Bills this summer has been boundary cornerback. Of course, the top cornerbacks have had to deal with dangerous receivers Stefon Diggs, Gabriel Davis, Isaiah McKenzie and MVP-candidate quarterback Josh Allen throwing them the ball, but the cornerback group has had a tough time making an impact.

Third-year cornerback Dane Jackson is among those struggling. The 2020 seventh-round pick fell in coverage in a one-on-one rep against Diggs after the receiver put on a juke move. On another rep, he sensed a receiver winning the route, got grabby and was called for defensive holding. Later in the session, Davis beat him clean deep down the middle.

 

Jackson has made some plays sparingly, but his struggles, as well as those of first-round pick Kaiir Elam, have opened the door to others. Siran Neal worked against Diggs and Davis early in camp. More recently, it’s been sixth-round pick Christian Benford getting time against the Allen-led offense over the last three days. The Bills must hope this trend is a product of going against an elite passing offense or that star cornerback Tre’Davious White will be ready to play relatively soon. Either way, the Bills need more from their top available boundary cornerbacks.

[stevewin]

1 hour ago, Captain Caveman said:

Awesome, thanks!
How does one get on the VIP side?  Do you think if I talk to my season ticket rep he might be able to get us over there?

You need a VIP pass I doubt you would have any luck talking to your rep - VIP is more about rewarding corporate sponsors.  If you know anyone from SJF that might be an angle.  They've been having alumni and other functions- not sure if even they can get into the VIP

[Warcodered]

5 minutes ago, Logic said:

It's so weird to read how two reporters can watch the same practices and come away with wildly different conclusions. Here's Joe Buscaglia about today's practice:

https://theathletic.com/3478869/2022/08/04/bills-camp-observations-james-cook-zack-moss/

 

Jackson typifies cornerback struggles

One mostly underwhelming spot for the Bills this summer has been boundary cornerback. Of course, the top cornerbacks have had to deal with dangerous receivers Stefon Diggs, Gabriel Davis, Isaiah McKenzie and MVP-candidate quarterback Josh Allen throwing them the ball, but the cornerback group has had a tough time making an impact.

Third-year cornerback Dane Jackson is among those struggling. The 2020 seventh-round pick fell in coverage in a one-on-one rep against Diggs after the receiver put on a juke move. On another rep, he sensed a receiver winning the route, got grabby and was called for defensive holding. Later in the session, Davis beat him clean deep down the middle.

 

Jackson has made some plays sparingly, but his struggles, as well as those of first-round pick Kaiir Elam, have opened the door to others. Siran Neal worked against Diggs and Davis early in camp. More recently, it’s been sixth-round pick Christian Benford getting time against the Allen-led offense over the last three days. The Bills must hope this trend is a product of going against an elite passing offense or that star cornerback Tre’Davious White will be ready to play relatively soon. Either way, the Bills need more from their top available boundary cornerbacks.

 

[Milanos Milano]

Elam and TB are going to be gold for us this year. Expecting big things from the D. 

[fergie's ire]

1 hour ago, Doc said:

 

Not a real word, dwarf.

It is a real word unless words only count as real if used by DWEMs.  From Oxford Languages:  

dweeb

/dwēb/

noun

DEROGATORY•INFORM

a boring, studious, or socially inept person.

[Logic]

I'm not sure about Elam, because -- as discussed in this thread, I've been reading mixed reports -- but it seems like I'm reading about Terrel Bernard, Baylon Spector, and Christian Benford just about every day.

Beane may have very effectively fortified the defense in this draft. If Elam and Cook live up to his draft slots, too, it might be a home run draft.

 

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, folz said:

 

Shout out to the players that helped McDermott turn this culture around. The six guys who have been there since the very beginning of the McDermott Era (six years now), through all of the ups and downs. Can't wait to see them celebrate with a Lombardi one of these days:

 

Micah Hyde

Jordan Poyer

Tre'Davius White

Matt Milano

Dion Dawkins

Reid Ferguson

 

Honorable mention to Shaq Lawson, who was also on the team in 2017, 2018, and 2019. But of course, he was gone for two years before coming back. But him coming back shows that he has that "DNA" that they look for.

 

 

And to Warcodered's comment above, I couldn't agree more. Just watched the NFL Films 2021 Buffalo Bills Yearbook video and there were a few times (TB and KC playoff game) that Stefon Diggs was on the sideline shouting to his teammates, "THIS IS WHO WE ARE!" They didn't have that at the start of last year (that swagger, that confidence top to bottom), but boy do they seem to have it now.

 

Speaking of which, I have a feeling that we are going to be pleasantly surprised by Tremaine Edmunds this year. Everything I've seen of him---interviews, when NFL Network had him mic'ed up, the way other players and coaches are speaking of him, etc.---he seems like a different guy: more mature, more comfortable, more vocal, more aggressive on the practice field. And with the much improved D-line in front of him, I wouldn't be surprised if Tremaine has a big year/takes a big step forward.

 

 

 

Shaq wasn't a culture guy.

 

They didn't pick up his option because they had to dangle a carrot in front of him.........his MO was being in the airport 2 hours after home games so he could fly to Charlotte and hang out at Clemson on his off day.     Dude was a clock puncher until his walk year motivation. 

[Shaw66]

56 minutes ago, stevewin said:

Random thoughts on today's practice

 

- Cloudy and drizzly to start - was afraid for a bit we were going to get wet, but turned out to be another perfect cloudy day for watching

- Maddy Glab making the walk from the building to the tunnel again with McKenzie

- Dion and Groot walked from the building to practice field together

- Hells Bells to start practice - Nice

- Before practice the kickers were at midfield throwing balls 10-15 yds to each other - Araiza and Bass, and Haack, first with a staff guy, then Ferguson.   Bass probably has the best ball - a nice spiral, but could work on his mechanics throws very sidearm

- FWIW - I noticed today that Araiza and Bass spent a lot of time together hanging out and talking - many times with Haack either off to the side or with Ferguson.  That was not how it was earlier this week

- Another long ST session, another session Knox and Howard subjected to 'focused instruction' from TE coach.  OL was doing a drill for a while where they hit the sled straight ahead then released to block another guy to the side

- Before practice started Singletary went over and hugged one of the refs.  Not sure if these are NFL game refs, but if they are every bit helps 

- Von throwing ball into stands got the crowd going.  Most noteworhty part of that activity was the same dude caught it from him two times in a row

- Black Sabbath - War Pigs!  🤘

- The defense went to the side field a lot this week

- Before one drill started Beane was standing on the sideline talking to someone and Josh was at midfield and skipped a ball at him - just to keep him on his toes

- The next section of practice, the 2 QBs were throwing routes to TE's on either side, very quick pace - then when everyone went through the QBs would run 20 yds to meet the guys who already ran the routes do it again the other way.  Later they repeated it with WRs.  During this time the TEs or WRs (whoever wasn't working with the QBs at the time) were working together, and the OL was in the far EZ running drills.  I have to say, this was the best 15 minutes I ever witnessed at camp.  The pace, the focus, the attention, the efficiency - it was so impressive - I was kind of blown away.  Every guy in every drill was just dialed in - guys that weren't in on reps were still paying attention.  There was no dancing or goofing or staring off - it was just all business, all across the field - to a man.  Crisp.  Everything was just running like clockwork  - may sound stupid but it was like when they say a choregraphed ballet - it was really something

- Yesterday I listened to the Sirius Movin the Chains broadcast from the other day and Kirwin noted how far ahead the Bills are than the teams of many of the camps they've visited so far.  He was mostly talking about installatons and packages, but overall they really seem extremely organized and on their game at this stage

- At the end of the drill Josh and McKenzie talked for at least a minute on some route - there is so much of that that goes on

- Diggs one handed catch was ridiculous

- Receivers seemed very physical today - when you see all the clips of them going over releases with Hall - that's a real thing they use - lot of contact and handfighting getting into routes - very physical, seems like they prob also like the oppty to get some shots at DBs too

- There's a real hard core battle between WRs and DBs.  Each one love to celebrate when they get over on the other.  On the long Shakir TD the whole WR corps actually ran down the field to celebrate with him - some I'm sure to rub in the D's face

- 11-11 started with O on own goal line.  1st team D was tenacious - man that was some tough sledding for the O to try to get out of the shadow

- One play Shaq ended up on his back (didn't see how), and Van Roten (sounds like a wrestling name) jumped on Shaq's chest and did a 3 count

- Von was on left side more today.  They were moving guys around the front.  One time Von was on left side w/ Reousseau next to him - two other times I saw Von on left side with Oliver next to him.  Saw a couple stunts too where Von crossed and crashed the middle

- Running up the middle on the first team D - forget about it.  Just a wall.  There was one play, however, where Duke J did bust through the line for 10-15 yds - but then he paid the price for this boldness when Neal came over and just rocked the dude to the ground.  I guess Neal was following the rules of practice and didn't technically tackle him - he killed him

- There was one other play that Singletry got outside for a gain but they called a hold.  There were just no answers running against the D - after getting stonewalled up the middle they tried to get to the edge a few times but the pursuit of the D was too much there

- Oh - Tremaine two plays in a row busts up the gut and smothers the ball carrier TFL

- I saw Benford run some with the 1st team opposite Elam

- I think "scuffles" are the most overhyped thing - just someone reacting in the moment, then it's done and forgotten - but some people will try to make more of it

- While the 11-11 was still going on /w 3rd string, Von walked over to the VIP tent and held his baby for a bit - that's when you know you're a superstar 

- Goal line session - D stout again, but Singletary did have a nice cut back for TD.  For 2nd team Duke scored on roll out pass nice catch and finish and also powered up the middle.  He had a good day with the twos

- I caught a T-shirt on the way out

- On way back listening to OBL they had Baldy on who said he talked to Von before practice about Rousseau.  Von said he's not as focused about trying to teach Rousseau technique or effort - but rather the mental aspect.  With that context it was interesting to then see Von's comment in PC about feeding Rousseau "gunpowder and gasoline" 

 

That's it for my time at St John Fisher this year - so glad I got to spend some more days at camp with my Dad.  Next week back to the real world.

 

 

THanks for this stuff.  It's been great.   You can't see everything or catch every little thing, but you can give nice almost stream of consciousness reactions to what's going on out there.   Thanks.

[Shaw66]

11 minutes ago, Logic said:

I'm not sure about Elam, because -- as discussed in this thread, I've been reading mixed reports -- but it seems like I'm reading about Terrel Bernard, Baylon Spector, and Christian Benford just about every day.

Beane may have very effectively fortified the defense in this draft. If Elam and Cook live up to his draft slots, too, it might be a home run draft.

 

And Shakir.

 

Stevewin said an interesting thing.  That some national person reported that the Bills seem further ahead in installations than all the other teams.   He also commented about the intense orchestration, everyone doing what their supposed to do when they're supposed to do it.  And McD does what Belichick always seems able to do, which is bring rookies along fast, get them up a steep learning curve so they can be contributors.   Everyone you mentioned, and Shakir, could be contributors this season, some of them from game 1.  

 

I've been watching McDermott since he's arrived (like everyone else), and he's always given me the impression that he is somehow on top of the best, most efficient way to do everything.   It's pretty impressive. 

 

Where I think he's fallen down, relatively, is Xs and 0s.  Certainly for 13 seconds.   That's what remains to be mastered.   

[Don Otreply]

19 minutes ago, fergie's ire said:

It is a real word unless words only count as real if used by DWEMs.  From Oxford Languages:  

dweeb

/dwēb/

noun

DEROGATORY•INFORM

a boring, studious, or socially inept person.

Have you successfully described yourself?

[GoodHands15]

7 hours ago, MiltonWaddams said:

At this point, I'm not sure he is seen as worth the designation. Has he shown you something more than what I have seen? Not the pro returner we had hoped, not great hands and not elite level speed.... 

this is false he Had a return for a touchdown last year if I’m not mistaken.

and he has been confirmed by Chris Simms as having 3 rockets up his ass