Training Camp practice 8/2

[MasterStrategist]

18 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Has anyone complained about adding Von Miller?    Everyone knows that the pass rush unit that Brandon Beane has built here since 2017 has been very disappointing.

 

The question is whether it was really wise to pay 3 OTHER free agent DL starting quality money.......mostly run D first guys.........and then draft a CB in round 1 and a cover LB in round 3 when they had arguably the best secondary and back 7 coverage until in the NFL already?

 

They did A LOT more than address the pass rush on defense this offseason.

 

Of offense they signed a veteran in Saffold who missed 5 games worth of snaps with a chronic shoulder injury last season to replace Daryl Williams(who had played every snap of the season).   Every other veteran addition by the Bills on offense was just an injury flyer discount.

Von Miller alone wasn't going to fix our Dline issues, although a big piece to our pass rush improvement.

 

How do we forget that Indy, Tennessee, and New England curbed stomped us in the run game.  We needed "physical" guys at DT.  Not to mention, that Beane decided not to pay Harry, released Star, and Butler was a waste.

 

Yes, Beanes "ROI" has been awful at DL.  Thankfully, he's nailed alot of other weaknesses, and the most important of all.  But that doesn't mean give up and stop investing/trying to fix and our biggest "team weaknesses" (pass rush and physicality on DL). Speed at CB, playmakers/weapons, and OL would round out others IMO.

 

We lost to KC last year, including Tenn in reg season, for 1 primary reason.  Our defense couldn't get crucial stops/gave up a TON of yards and points. Yes, offense wasn't perfect, but did more than enough.

 

Not like Beane totally ignored the offensive side of the ball this offseason.  Many signs point to us wanting to be more "multiple" with our offensive looks and packages.  This has been hashed out a million times...

1. skill position weapons: Cook, Howard, Crowder, Shakir, and more PT for Gabe/McKenzie >>>> losing Beas, Manny

2. OL: go read what Morse said earlier in the week re: additions to OL depth.  It would have been great to add a G in round 2/3, value just wasn't there.

 

Finally, re: Elam and Bernard (point about improving an already talented back 7).....this is going to be a very stacked AFC QB group/great offenses.  When all is said and done this season, it will be the team that can find a way to "slow down"/get a few stops against an elite offense in the playoffs that will be moving on.  Something all SB contending teams have had to do...cant win on offense alone and our defense clearly has been an issue against top tier QBs.  Elam and Bernard are going to be important pieces to get us there, Bernard has already been raved about in camp (confident Frazier/McDermott) have ideas to get more "multiple" on defense as well.

[Beck Water]

2 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

 

Is it just me, or is McKenzie double-clutching a couple of those?

[MiltonWaddams]

1 hour ago, chongli said:

 

What a surprise: same as Josh Allen [wry smile]! 🙂

I think he’s a bit bigger than me. I sure don’t have the same size of arms. My legs may be bigger though….

[YattaOkasan]

4 hours ago, Don Otreply said:

It’s Scottlaw, his takes are always entertaining and lack context, I think entertaining is the main thing though. 😂

Had to dunk in the take that unsigned Daryl Williams was as good or better than Saffold. 

4 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

At Tackle? Dudes a HOFer, even at 40 I’d take him over DW. Wtf are you talking about? 😅

You got lost in your Jason peters stuff. I’m here to laugh at your Daryl Williams takes. You say now he wasn’t offering much last year. But that’s not the tune you’ve been singing all off-season.  “If he (Saffold) is an upgrade (to Daryl Williams)…”. 😂. That take is gold  it was June and he was unsigned (still is). 

 

 

Edited August 3, 2022 by YattaOkasan

[Big Turk]

5 hours ago, hemma said:

BMI is not always the best of measures.

McKenzie is 5’ 8”, 173 lbs. He’s categorized as Overweight.  

 

Nevertheless, I agree with the unstated premise.

 

I was considered "obese" based on BMI when I was in elite shape with a six pack and exceptionally muscular. 

 

Pretty much a joke for anyone who works out regularly in the gym with heavy weights and is in good shape

[Scott7975]

6 hours ago, Don Otreply said:

 

BMI is not a good measure for athletes that’s for certain, but the other 73.4 percent of the population need to exercise some self respect and stop living on Taco Bell and eating as an activity, pretty darn sad no matter how one spins it…,, have we become a country of fat people…, 

 

I have always had like a really fast metabolism.  In my teenage to mid 20's I was like 6'2" 160 pounds and ate pretty much all fast food lol.  I didnt start gaining weight until I met my wife and converted to home cooking.  I hardly eat any fast food now and I'm about 200lbs.  I am almost 50 now but I have been that weight since giving up fast food.

 

Not trying to say fast food is healthy or doesnt cause weight gain or anything.  It surely is not healthy.  I just always thought that it was funny I could never gain weight until giving up fast food.  At one point I was even drinking like 3k calorie drinks twice a day with chocolate milk and added bananas and *****.  After about a month of that I gained like 4 pounds.

[Solomon Grundy]

10 hours ago, Einstein said:

Those who have been to camp - Are the Bills running any type of modified Oklahoma drills such as this one that the Titans are running?

 

 

Bull in the ring? 

[Don Otreply]

5 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

 

I have always had like a really fast metabolism.  In my teenage to mid 20's I was like 6'2" 160 pounds and ate pretty much all fast food lol.  I didnt start gaining weight until I met my wife and converted to home cooking.  I hardly eat any fast food now and I'm about 200lbs.  I am almost 50 now but I have been that weight since giving up fast food.

 

Not trying to say fast food is healthy or doesnt cause weight gain or anything.  It surely is not healthy.  I just always thought that it was funny I could never gain weight until giving up fast food.  At one point I was even drinking like 3k calorie drinks twice a day with chocolate milk and added bananas and *****.  After about a month of that I gained like 4 pounds.

At 64 years old, I’m 6’ 4” I go in at 200lbs  , and like you I was slim, 175lbs until I was forty ish and got married… the Mrs was a three meal a day girl back then, I wasn’t, only ate when I was hungry, long term bachelor back then,  now we eat one or two meals a day and eat generally healthy stuff in small quantities in between if we feel like it,  imo if you aren’t being really active there is no reason to eat three traditional meals a day, our bodies haven’t even processed the calories from breakfast yet when we are eating lunch at mid day, let alone eating dinner five hours after that, its no wonder its hard to not get overweight in a country that advertises food 24/7/365, I’m a bit odd maybe, for my eating style. We shifted our lifestyle,  We sold our house and almost all of our belongings and moved onto our sailboat in 2018, (a 1977 Bristol 29.9 hull #17) we sail to the Bahamas every winter, and back again to Connecticut for the summers, it’s a fairly active life style, good adventures, keeps both of us slim, although it’s not always easy to watch the Bills when we are out in the Atlantic Ocean on a small lightly populated island, lol, life is full of comprises…, 

 

Go Bills!!!

[Royale with Cheese]

1 hour ago, ScottLaw said:

I said Peters offered MORE at the RT position than both Spencer Brown and Darryl Williams last season…. Meaning he was BETTER than both.  Brown and Williams struggled at tackle in 2021.

 

And my point about Williams is he gives you more flexibility and availability than Saffold does/has… and his pass protection inside was arguably better than what Saffold offered last season…. There’s a reason the Bills paid Williams the money they did prior to last season. 

 

And there is a reason why Williams was cut by the Bills and still unsigned in a league desperate for good offensive lineman....he's just 29.

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

Any word on how Cook has looked? More specifically running the ball? I’m assuming the pass catching option this is a borderline given. I want to know if this guy can turn into the whole deal here

[BADOLBILZ]

10 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

And there is a reason why Williams was cut by the Bills and still unsigned in a league desperate for good offensive lineman....he's just 29.

 

 

It's not because of his performance at guard.   He was solid there after some unexpected struggles early at RT.   He also didn't miss a snap all season.

 

He was playing on a big contract last year.........not every player is like Jason Peters and will take a pay cut to keep playing because they love the game.

 

There were people saying that Julio Jones not signing was proof that he was washed and nobody wanted him..........and he actually was coming off a season where he was injured most of the year...........and then he signed a $6M+ 1 year deal in training camp.

 

Just because a player isn't signed doesn't mean teams aren't trying to sign him.

[YattaOkasan]

2 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

I said Peters offered MORE at the RT position than both Spencer Brown and Darryl Williams last season…. Meaning he was BETTER than both.  Brown and Williams struggled at tackle in 2021.

 

And my point about Williams is he gives you more flexibility and availability than Saffold does/has… and his pass protection inside was arguably better than what Saffold offered last season…. There’s a reason the Bills paid Williams the money they did prior to last season. 

Cool glad to hear you are still on the Williams > Saffold take.  i think thats laughable.  The league needs OL and he couldnt get signed before TC.  he could def still be signed which if he doesnt wouldnt that be embarrasing for your take. 

 

Considering position flex and overall play at both T and G, i think Quessenberry > Williams.  Williams has shown what he is, an unathletic player who is cereberal enough to give good RT (only) play for periods, but his guard play leaves a lot to be desired.  Just to hammer this home you are saying a pro bowl guard (not the best metric but def something) is arguably worse than an OL with flexibility that hasnt been able to find a team before TC.  

Edited August 3, 2022 by YattaOkasan

[Alphadawg7]

11 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

They’ve continuously spent endless money and assets attempting to fix the defense(particularly the defensive line) the past three years while putting the offense on the back burner with hole patching…. They addressed the offensive line by adding a much better coach and a OG who’s demonstrated decline in play. 
 

I’m not “panicking” at all. Would hate to see Allen get hurt and the season go down the tubes because the line couldn’t hold up infront of him….or he turns into Superman again and has to carry/will the team to wins all on his own again. 

 

I guess you missed the part where we drafted Cook and Shakir this year, both who will likely contribute this year.  Or the part where we retained Bates, who helped stabilize the line last year and brought in Saffold and several other FA's.  Or the signing of OJ Howard.

 

I guess you missed the part where we drafted 2 OT's (one of which that emerged as a starter as a rookie) last draft along with a WR and signed Emmanuel Sanders.  Or the year before in 2020 where almost our entire draft was offense that included drafting Moss, Gabe, and Bass...2 of which are major weapons for us.  

 

So, sorry, sell this false story elsewhere that we have ignored offense and put it on the back burner.  We fielded the number 1 offense 2 seasons in a row and likely will again this year.  To see someone complain about the offense while the defense has not been on the same level as the offense (not even last year when it was also ranked #1) is just mind blowing.  

[Alphadawg7]

12 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Has anyone complained about adding Von Miller?    Everyone knows that the pass rush unit that Brandon Beane has built here since 2017 has been very disappointing.

 

The question is whether it was really wise to pay 3 OTHER free agent DL starting quality money.......mostly run D first guys.........and then draft a CB in round 1 and a cover LB in round 3 when they had arguably the best secondary and back 7 coverage until in the NFL already?

 

They did A LOT more than address the pass rush on defense this offseason.

 

Of offense they signed a veteran in Saffold who missed 5 games worth of snaps with a chronic shoulder injury last season to replace Daryl Williams(who had played every snap of the season).   Every other veteran addition by the Bills on offense was just an injury flyer discount.

 

Well you are basically complaining about signing Von Miller.  I mean you seem want them to have spent that money on OL instead of Miller.  His contract is the reason more money wasn't spent big on other positions this year.  So dont come in here and say "Has anyone complained about adding Von Miller?" while then complaining we didnt spend more money on the OL because we signed Von Miller.  

 

And like I already pointed out to the other regular negative on here, Offense has been ahead of the defense the last 2 seasons.  Yet we still invested a lot into the offense drafting while also working to improve the defense.  Every year every single team has areas they can improve on.  There has never been a SB champion that didn't have a unit that couldn't be upgraded.  But teams work to keep making their teams better every offseason.  But a team can only do so much in one offseason based on cap limits, available players, players that want to sign here, etc.  

 

We had a great offseason where both the #1 offense last year and #1 defense last year have seen additions that will make both sides of the ball even better this season.  

 

[ColoradoBills]

To be fair the Bills have spent a lot of resources on the DL and some of them did not pan out so well.  Where I get confused is what was Beane to do?

Should he abandon the problem of not getting pressure on the QB and stuffing the run because of what happened in the past?  Does he say to the

team "We can't figure this problem out so I'm going to ignore it and put all my resources into the offense?

 

No, he is trying his best to balance the resources and fixing the DL at the same time.  It sure is not easy, but I think this group of D-Linemen

may be the answer.  If so, it is a great balance of young players and mid-aged vets and Von Miller.  The cap could work out fairly well with

these guys too.

 

The secondary with regards to the CBs may be in good shape for the next couple of years and the Ss are the only real question going forward.

With Milano set and only 1 other LB starter needed, even if they move on from TE they may already have a replacement on the team.

If all this can be achieved for the D, I have hope that a larger share of resources can go into the Offense in the next 2 years.

 

I don't claim to know Beane's and McDermott's thoughts on this, but I can reasonably assume it's a definite possibility.  They are not going

to come out and say exactly what their plan is going forward, so the best I can do is an educated guess.

 

[eball]

1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I guess you missed the part where we drafted Cook and Shakir this year, both who will likely contribute this year.  Or the part where we retained Bates, who helped stabilize the line last year and brought in Saffold and several other FA's.  Or the signing of OJ Howard.

 

I guess you missed the part where we drafted 2 OT's (one of which that emerged as a starter as a rookie) last draft along with a WR and signed Emmanuel Sanders.  Or the year before in 2020 where almost our entire draft was offense that included drafting Moss, Gabe, and Bass...2 of which are major weapons for us.  

 

So, sorry, sell this false story elsewhere that we have ignored offense and put it on the back burner.  We fielded the number 1 offense 2 seasons in a row and likely will again this year.  To see someone complain about the offense while the defense has not been on the same level as the offense (not even last year when it was also ranked #1) is just mind blowing.  

 

This is an awesome recap to combat some of endless droning of those who complain about "ignoring the offense" while at the same time failing to acknowledge that getting this D-line right is perhaps the biggest key to the Bills getting out of the AFC.

 

[Fleezoid]

On 8/2/2022 at 11:59 AM, YoloinOhio said:

McDermott just said this yesterday. It’s very common for guys to have little injuries pop up in 1st week of camp as well as be easing guys back after off-season surgery. The most important thing is that they are ready to play on Sept 9. The trainers manage each player according to that. 

 

Oh man, that's not good! I was really counting on them being ready a day earlier!

[Heitz]

Did anyone catch Sirius' visit to camp yesterday?  A lot of praise for the Bills.  One quote that really resonated was Kirwan saying that the Bills are FAR ahead of where most teams are in camp - they know the system, the expectations, what needs to be done and are going at it!

 

Let's Go Buffalo!!

 

 

[NY Nole]

3 hours ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

Any word on how Cook has looked? More specifically running the ball? I’m assuming the pass catching option this is a borderline given. I want to know if this guy can turn into the whole deal here

Attended Training Camp yesterday (8/2), here's some of my observations:

• About James Cook -- he was running behind Singletary and Moss. He appeared to to be quick and decisive in getting to where he was going, but they weren't really hitting -- so tough to tell how effective he was at reading blocks. Also -- note that the Offensive line is missing a lot of starters and preferred backups that will be hopefully playing key roles during the season. Bobby Hart (RG) and Cody Ford (LG) were the starting guards -- along with Quessenberry (RT), Dawkins and Morse. This wasn't a great sample to measure the inside running game. I also noted that they were giving him a look as returner. 
• For those that have attended camp in the past -- the setup has changed for fans/consumers. There is no more giant climate-controlled tent that housed all of the merchandise -- which you had to pass through en route to the practice field. It has been replaced by 2 mobile Bills Shop trailers. The trailers do not have the same amount of inventory or variety. Not sure why the Bills aren't interested in maximizing their revenue stream from people like me that get suckered into buying something on display like past years. There's still kids games and concessions outdoors -- just seems like the merchandise section was an after thought this year. Now, back to football observations:
• Crowds are as full as I've ever seen them -- and they erupted every time a fan favorite entered the practice field from the tunnel under the bleachers. Von Miller and Josh Allen received the loudest ovations -- but Diggs and McKenzie were right up there as well.
• They did a lot of special teams work in front of the main field (defense retreats to a corner field out of view for most fans during this stretch). So -- as I was forced to take in special teams -- it was easy to hear (and see) new special teams coach Matt Smiley in action. He was barking out directions in terms of block angles and leverage for the return game. One particular drill was having a blocker sprint downfield towards the returner before looping around to take on a charging tackler. The drill focused on steering the would-be tackler for the returner to read and react. Smiley was very animated and seems like he always has the attention of his players.
• Pace of Practice -- there was no down time. Always something happening -- whether special teams, individual drills or team action (first team offense at one end, while second team running same drills at the other). This is not new -- but it is a fast-paced practice compared to some of the older regimes that I have witnessed. 
• WR battle. I've never really noticed that Isaiah McKenzie stood out before -- sure he's been a fan favorite for a while -- but he never really caught my attention at previous training camps. This time was way DIFFERENT. For starters -- McKenzie was either the first or among the first to start every drill. When taking reps in drills -- its usually Diggs > Davis > McKenzie. He is carrying himself like a leader on the field -- certainly the WR group. Also -- he caught just about everything I saw thrown to him. He also is always moving his arms and hands -- and looks quick in and out of breaks. A couple other WR observations: Stefon Diggs is a man among boys. This is not a revelation -- I know. But seeing him up close in person -- MAN -- there is such a difference between the way Diggs moves and all the others. Not a knock on Davis or others -- but if they removed all numbers/names on the jerseys and asked an alien to identify the best player on the field -- it would be a quick response. Diggs is just that different. He moves different, cuts different and catches different. Davis should benefit tremendously from being full-time opposite Diggs -- because it is readily apparent that an NFL defense MUST roll coverage to/account for Diggs at ALL times. As much as I noticed/hyped McKenzie -- I think Crowder is the next smoothest catcher of football on the Bills. To me -- it looks like Crowder is still working to get acclimated to the offense and Josh. For this reason -- I wouldn't be surprised to see McKenzie in a prominent Slot role (or the starting Slot) -- but Crowder appears the more natural at the position (both of them are similar stature). Keep your eyes throughout preseason on Shakir -- he looks like a good one -- and a little bigger than I thought. 
• Interior DL -- No practice from Tim Settle Jr. on this day, but our new look defensive interior looks to be incredible. Starters were Ed Oliver and Daquan Jones. Jordan Phillips is probably the biggest - and combined with a healthy Settle Jr. -- I really believe this group has all the makings to be the most improved unit on the entire roster. They look downright imposing. I came away feeling that the days of not being able to stop the run in crunch time is OVER. Hopefully -- this will also free up Edmonds to make more plays.
• Jordan Poyer injury. Once he got to the sideline he fell to the ground. My binoculars caught his facial expressions and he appeared to be in significant pain. After trainers worked on him, he got up and made his way through the sidelines -- where he again went down at the water station -- before getting back up and getting a cart under the tunnel. I've seen the reports since then -- but it sure looked more serious to me.
• Go Bills.             

Edited August 3, 2022 by NY Nole

[BADOLBILZ]

2 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Well you are basically complaining about signing Von Miller.  I mean you seem want them to have spent that money on OL instead of Miller.  His contract is the reason more money wasn't spent big on other positions this year.  So dont come in here and say "Has anyone complained about adding Von Miller?" while then complaining we didnt spend more money on the OL because we signed Von Miller.  

 

And like I already pointed out to the other regular negative on here, Offense has been ahead of the defense the last 2 seasons.  Yet we still invested a lot into the offense drafting while also working to improve the defense.  Every year every single team has areas they can improve on.  There has never been a SB champion that didn't have a unit that couldn't be upgraded.  But teams work to keep making their teams better every offseason.  But a team can only do so much in one offseason based on cap limits, available players, players that want to sign here, etc.  

 

We had a great offseason where both the #1 offense last year and #1 defense last year have seen additions that will make both sides of the ball even better this season.  

 

 

 

I literally said the opposite.........you are trying to create a ridiculously false narrative that people who think they invested too many available dollars and draft picks on defense are saying that signing Von Miller meant they couldn't have used any other money or even somehow more top draft picks......on the offensive side of the ball.    

 

And as usual from most of our resident bickering idiots.........you have no numbers or statistics to support your claim whatsoever.

 

You even claim the offense was ahead of the defense last year when the defense finished 1st in the NFL and the OL was one of the leagues WORST(29th in pressures allowed) and they had bad offensive games almost randomly against the worst or the best teams.

 

I mean.......WTF.........how absurd can it get on TSW?

 

The reality is that the Von Miller cap hit was around $5M for 2022...........which is a couple million less than just the combined hit for rotational DT's Daquan Jones and Jordan Phillips.    

 

Von Miller didn't eat up all of the Bills cap space so I don't even know where this vague assumption that every other investment on defense aside from Von Miller was irrelevant to the caponomics of the roster this year comes from.