Week 2 of Camp - updates and talking points (OL??)

[GunnerBill]

I am fully expecting @YoloinOhio to be all over the creation of a week 2 of camp thread at some point, and I am very happy for this to be merged into that but having caught up with a lot of the beat reporters' thoughts over the weekend I think the biggest area to watch this week is the offensive line. I think most fans have considered the return of Aaron Kromer, one of the most proven and respected OL coaches in the business, one of the biggest upgrades of the offseason for the Bills. However, for them to really benefit from his coaching they need to get their guys in practice and on the field, surely? Obviously Dion has a personal issue (and we all wish him / his family well), Saffold has been in a car accident (and again we wish him a speedy recovery), but in addition to those Spencer Brown is not all the way healthy following a back operation and hasn't been with first team yet in team drills and Ryan Bates missed time last week too. 

 

Sure, it is one week into camp. There is no need to be concerned or freak out yet, but with Kromer on board I think the practice time for that first unit is potentially really valuable so that they can hit their stride early. The Bills oline was a mess until December last year and it was a factor in us losing games against teams we were clearly better than in Pittsburgh and particularly Jacksonville. I don't think we can afford a slow start from that unit again this year and to get the full benefit of the coaching change I am keen to see the starters together and healthy sooner rather than later in camp. 

 

Also linked to that... we have had the discussion about Josh playing any of the pre-season games. Personally I'd prefer he sat for all three but I expect new playcaller etc they will try and get him a half somewhere. I am 100% against putting Josh Allen out there if we only have our 2nd team oline on the field to protect him. That feels like suicide. 

Edited August 1, 2022 by GunnerBill

[eball]

Agree with all points.  In the “should Josh play in the preseason” thread I also suggested that one half of football is plenty for him to work out the kinks with Dorsey calling plays.

 

[BillsPride12]

Agree that the play of the offensive line is going to be key.  The line struggles were the reason behind the Bills rough start to the season last year in my opinion not because they were getting too full of themselves and not taking things seriously like so many posters were suggesting last year.  

[CSBill]

31 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

I am fully expecting @YoloinOhio to be all over the creation of a week 2 of camp thread at some point, and I am very happy for this to be merged into that but having caught up with a lot of the beat reporters' thoughts over the weekend I think the biggest area to watch this week is the offensive line. I think most fans have considered the return of Aaron Kromer, one of the most proven and respected OL coaches in the business, one of the biggest upgrades of the offseason for the Bills. However, for them to really benefit from his coaching they need to get their guys in practice and on the field, surely? Obviously Dion has a personal issue (and we all wish him / his family well), Saffold has been in a car accident (and again we wish him a speedy recovery), but in addition to those Spencer Brown is not all the way healthy following a back operation and hasn't been with first team yet in team drills and Ryan Bates missed time last week too. 

 

Sure, it is one week into camp. There is no need to be concerned or freak out yet, but with Kromer on board I think the practice time for that first unit is potentially really valuable so that they can hit their stride early. The Bills oline was a mess until December last year and it was a factor in us losing games against teams we were clearly better than in Pittsburgh and particularly Jacksonville. I don't think we can afford a slow start from that unit again this year and to get the full benefit of the coaching change I am keen to see the starters together and healthy sooner rather than later in camp. 

 

Also linked to that... we have had the discussion about Josh playing any of the pre-season games. Personally I'd prefer he sat for all three but I expect new playcaller etc they will try and get him a half somewhere. I am 100% against putting Josh Allen out there if we only have our 2nd team oline on the field to protect him. That feels like suicide. 

 

Agree. I'm not concerned yet, about the line issues. But if we go into next week with three projected starters still out, then I will officially worry.

 

As for Josh, 3 productive drives in games 2 or 3, that's all I need to see.

[YoloinOhio]

This can be the week 2 thread as far I’m concerned. Lets goooo

[GunnerBill]

Just now, YoloinOhio said:

This can be the week 2 thread as far I’m concerned. Lets goooo

 

I have been here 9 years. This post means I *made it* 

[JohnBonhamRocks]

The missed time seems more significant for the right side of the OL.
 

Bates and Brown are inexperienced whereas Dawkins, Saffold, and Morse are vets who I’d expect would have an easier time gelling on the fly.

[YattaOkasan]

Agree with the points about getting the 1's working together.  Isnt Kromer sorta known for rotating players more than other coaches though?  Maybe they are taking the opportunity to do that at the start of camp cause of the inuries.

[NewEra]

Not a big deal yet….but possibly very big deal unless these guys get to practicing and get healthy.  
 

The OL, boundary WR and Kaiir Elam scare me.

 

Excited to see more Cook, Mckenzie, Shakir, young DEs, Dodson and Bernard
 

 

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Not a big deal yet….but possibly very big deal unless these guys get to practicing and get healthy.  
 

The OL, boundary WR and Kaiir Elam scare me.

 

Excited to see more Cook, Mckenzie, Shakir, young DEs, Dodson and Bernard
 

 

 

Joe B is really high on that Dodson / Bernard battle for LB3 and LB4. Says the standard has been super high. 

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, ScottLaw said:

Their defensive depth is ridiculously good everywhere except maybe safety behind Poyer/Hyde.

 

I am high on Jaquan Johnson as well tbf and when he started that one game last year (albeit vs Houston) he was very good. My only concern depth wise on defense is defensive end where if Von goes down we are very inexperienced and our ceiling as a rush team reduces big time. They have to see what the young guys have, so not criticising the decision to roll with them, it's now or never to an extent, but that is the one defensive position where I do think 1 injury could really hurt. 

[NewEra]

9 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Joe B is really high on that Dodson / Bernard battle for LB3 and LB4. Says the standard has been super high. 

I saw that.  Hoping that one of them can be a low cost Edmunds replacement.  Not because I don’t like 49, but because we can’t pay everyone and I don’t think that position will be worth what he wants.  We’re already over the cap for next season (iirc) and have a handful of mouths that need feeding 

[Beerball]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I have been here 9 years. This post means I *made it* 

Not bad for a retread. 😄😜

Edited August 1, 2022 by Beerball

[No_Matter_What]

58 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Not a big deal yet….but possibly very big deal unless these guys get to practicing and get healthy.  
 

The OL, boundary WR and Kaiir Elam scare me.

 

Excited to see more Cook, Mckenzie, Shakir, young DEs, Dodson and Bernard
 

 

Why does Elam scare you? I am not following everything but I thought he was getting tested a lot by Diggs which is a great thing. He presumably loses more than he wins but that's fine for the time being against one of the very best, isn't it?

Edited August 1, 2022 by No_Matter_What

[Steve O]

49 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Their defensive depth is ridiculously good everywhere except maybe safety behind Poyer/Hyde.

What did Marv used to say about depth...oh yeah...depth is a great thing, until you have to use it

[NewEra]

26 minutes ago, No_Matter_What said:

Why does Elam scare you? I am not following everything but I thought he was getting tested a lot by Diggs which is a great thing. He presumably loses more than he wins but that's fine for the time being against one of the very best, isn't it?

He scares me because I didn’t think he was a 1st rd corner.  He held a lot in college and according to some of the reports I’ve read, he’s been holding a lot in training camp.  
 

If he’s going to be our #2, possibly #1 cb (if 27 doesn’t start the season) I want to hear more good than bad.  To date, I’ve heard more bad than good.   Jmo.  

Edited August 1, 2022 by NewEra

[GunnerBill]

4 minutes ago, NewEra said:

He scares me because I didn’t think he was a 1st rd corner.  He held a lot on college and according to some of the reports I’ve read, he’s been holding a lot in training camp.  
 

If he’s going to be our #2, possibly #1 cb (if 27 doesn’t start the season) I want to hear more good than bad.  To date, I’ve heard more bad than good.   Jmo.  

 

Yea he did hold a lot in college. I didn't have a first on him either. I confess the reports about Andrew Booth standing out even against Justin Jefferson in Vikings camp are making me very sad. 

 

Don't get me wrong I still see a good ceiling for Elam and they had a need at corner and there was a big drop off after the 2nd tier (McDuffie, Gordon, McCreary and Elam) but man.... Andrew Booth if healthy was always gonna crush it IMO. 

[uninja]

1 minute ago, ScottLaw said:

Yea… I expect him to get flagged early and often before getting a better understanding/adapting. 

 

He'll learn. I'd rather he be overly aggressive/eager and learn to hone the edge than be timid/unsure.

 

White is a pretty aggressive CB and gets his fair share of holding and DPI calls but he knows where the line is by now. If Elam can do the same the backfield is Buffalo will be a no fly zone.

[Scott7975]

Oline is for sure the weak spot of this team.  If this coach cant get them going then no coach will.  Hopefully the injured guys get back sooner than later because they need the time, vet or not.  These scrubs in their place aren't going to cut it.

[ColoradoBills]

Of course, we all would like to see the OL completely healthy to start camp.  That's just a fact.

Thing is it's a long, long season and who is healthy at the end is the MOST important.

 

Looking for anything positive we could say at least the depth players get more 1st team snaps.

If Bates, Brown and Saffold are all back by next week I see no long-term detriment.

I know getting all the 1's reps is important at this time of the year, but we sure don't want them returning too quickly and prolonging injuries.