Possible Salary Cap Loophole

[The Dean]

4 hours ago, The Real Buffalo Joe said:

Let me start my question by saying I’m sure there’s a rule against this, but in my few Google searches, I found nothing. 
 

Let’s  take the Detroit Lions for example. Owned by the Ford family, the same family that owns Ford Motor Company. Lets say there’s a free agent asking to $15 million. Their salary cap will only be able to pay him $10. What’s stopping them from saying in the negotiation room “While we can’t pay you the amount you’re looking for, you’re gonna find Detroit a fine place to live, and more endorsement deals than the other markets,” with the implication being that Ford will sign him to an endorsement deal worth that $5 he was looking for? 

 

I'm pretty sure this is totally illegal. Not to say that stuff like this doesn't happen. But I think it would be harder to pull off with a free agent, than with one of your own players already under contract.  I'm thinking if a player took a much lower offer from a team with a low cap figure when higher offers were available might raise suspicion. 

 

But using revenue outside the team/NFL might be used in retaining your own player and avoid major suspicion. Some come to mind....

 

4 hours ago, Augie said:

 

Weren’t there rumors that Wayne Huizenga (owner of Blockbuster Video, Waste Management, etc) got Dan Marino in on some IPO’s and other stuff as a way of raising his compensation? I have no idea if that was true, but I’m pretty sure I heard it. In the current cap environment I’m sure the league would find a way to crush that today. 

 

4 hours ago, sven233 said:

The Pats* did something like this for years with Brady.  They always paid him well below market value and then funneled money into a company he owed to make up the difference.  Can't remember the specifics about the arrangement, but this has been talked about for years with Brady.

 

 

I'm guessing if you did a full cavity audit of Tom and Gisele's wealth, you will find many connections to Kraft, his cronies and New England based magnates and companies.  I've never believed Tom "took less" to stay with the team all those years. I do think the Pats* showed just a portion of the revenue that was funneled to Brady over those years, however.

[Orlando Buffalo]

Technically that is illegal but unless the rule has changed if you make an agreement with a players company there is nothing wrong with that. Basically if Josh decides to start a supplement company and the Bills buy $20 million in vitamins starting in 3 years and continue to do so until he leaves then it is allowed. I doubt it could happen with a free agent but with a player who had been around years it could work.

[1ManRaid]

6 hours ago, Allen2Diggs said:

I'm pretty sure non-salary compensation is illegal for NFL players. Otherwise, Terry Pegula could hire Josh Allen as a $100 Million per year janitor for Pegula Sports & Entertainment and then Beane would sign him to the vet minimum to free up cap room.

 

You'd have to be delusional to think it doesn't happen anyway.  Plenty of ways to pull strings to get players outside funding, and all kinds of fancy bookkeeping to keep things hidden.  Brady's infamous "team friendly" deals have been one of the worst kept secrets for many years now.

[Richard Noggin]

Without reading through the thread, let me be the next poster to point out Tom Brady's previous arrangements with the Patriots via his snake oil sports supplement/training business. TB12 was paid below market value for years, according to the salary cap. TB12 was NOT in fact paid below market value for years, in reality.

[wjag]

8 hours ago, The Real Buffalo Joe said:

Let me start my question by saying I’m sure there’s a rule against this, but in my few Google searches, I found nothing. 
 

Let’s  take the Detroit Lions for example. Owned by the Ford family, the same family that owns Ford Motor Company. Lets say there’s a free agent asking to $15 million. Their salary cap will only be able to pay him $10. What’s stopping them from saying in the negotiation room “While we can’t pay you the amount you’re looking for, you’re gonna find Detroit a fine place to live, and more endorsement deals than the other markets,” with the implication being that Ford will sign him to an endorsement deal worth that $5 he was looking for? 

To quote Wimpy:

 

 "I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today".

 

No respected agent would sign up for this.  Contracts are there for a reason.  

[Chandler#81]

12 hours ago, Augie said:

 

Weren’t there rumors that Wayne Huizenga (owner of Blockbuster Video, Waste Management, etc) got Dan Marino in on some IPO’s and other stuff as a way of raising his compensation? I have no idea if that was true, but I’m pretty sure I heard it. In the current cap environment I’m sure the league would find a way to crush that today. 

Idk if the League covered the loophole, but NE* certainly did this with Brady. It allowed them to continue to sign great FAs while the goat was middle of the pack “paid”. 
effin’ Cheaters!😡

[cage]

11 hours ago, sven233 said:

The Pats* did something like this for years with Brady.  They always paid him well below market value and then funneled money into a company he owed to make up the difference.  Can't remember the specifics about the arrangement, but this has been talked about for years with Brady.

 

Also, generally true of any large market.  I'd imagine that big stars in LA, Chicago, Dallas, NY, Boston, Philadelphia would make more in endorsements in the local markets than Buffalo, GB, Cleveland, Cincinnati.... 

[Saxum]

8 hours ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

Technically that is illegal but unless the rule has changed if you make an agreement with a players company there is nothing wrong with that. Basically if Josh decides to start a supplement company and the Bills buy $20 million in vitamins starting in 3 years and continue to do so until he leaves then it is allowed. I doubt it could happen with a free agent but with a player who had been around years it could work.

 

With Josh they could make a deal with his family farm to be supplier of fruit and nuts for the Bills.

Their kitchen goes thru a lot of food.

[BuffaloBill]

15 hours ago, StHustle said:

 

Lol well they may as well close the meeting room door and simply offer him a bag of cash under the table. I guess that’s a possibility as well huh

 

A well used method throughout the history of mankind. 

[hondo in seattle]

Years ago I read it was illegal for NFL teams to collude with sponsors to augment a player's compensation - just like it was illegal for colleges to collude with backers to provide any compensation.  

And I'm assuming this is right - otherwise the big market teams would be doing it all the time.

[Mr. WEO]

13 hours ago, Saint Doug said:

William Clay Ford Jr is the Executive Chair of Ford’s Board of Directors. While he doesn’t have an appreciable number of shares (3,868), he undoubtedly holds an enormous amount of sway within the Ford corporation. 

 

He owns 8.1 millions shares. 

 

Also, as Executive Chair, he's a paid Ford employee--not an independent, as are the rest of the board members. It's a job given to recent former CEOs.  

 

You really think that he would come the board of Ford and say, "hey, my sister wants to pay one of her players a little money on the side to skirt NFL salary cap rules.  You would all be cool with Ford paying this guy for "endorsements" (wink wink), right??"

 

I can't tell if you are serious or not.

[TheFunPolice]

I feel like there was a story about a team giving a player a case of fancy wine or something like that and they had to charge its value against the cap.

 

I'll try to find it 

[Saint Doug]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

He owns 8.1 millions shares. 

 

Also, as Executive Chair, he's a paid Ford employee--not an independent, as are the rest of the board members. It's a job given to recent former CEOs.  

 

You really think that he would come the board of Ford and say, "hey, my sister wants to pay one of her players a little money on the side to skirt NFL salary cap rules.  You would all be cool with Ford paying this guy for "endorsements" (wink wink), right??"

 

I can't tell if you are serious or not.

https://whalewisdom.com/stock/f

 

Go down to “insiders” and it will tell you the number of shares he owns. Independent Board members are no different than other Board members. Being Chairman of the Board, he undoubtedly holds sway in the company. That said, I never posted using this power for endorsements or any other outside compensation was a good idea or even feasible. But, any thought that he couldn’t influence the company is just plain silly. 
 

 

[Mr. WEO]

8 minutes ago, Saint Doug said:

https://whalewisdom.com/stock/f

 

Go down to “insiders” and it will tell you the number of shares he owns. Independent Board members are no different than other Board members. Being Chairman of the Board, he undoubtedly holds sway in the company. That said, I never posted using this power for endorsements or any other outside compensation was a good idea or even feasible. But, any thought that he couldn’t influence the company is just plain silly. 
 

 

most recent:

https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/F/insider-roster?p=F

 

WCF certainly holds more than $57,000 in Ford stock..

 

Anyway, he is Executive Chair.  A link be tween the Board and the CEO.  There is no chance ever that he would propose such a dumb scheme to the Board.  It would be a blatant  violation of their fiduciary responsibilities to the shareholders.  

 

He could never influence the Board in this way.  It's absurd to suggest he can.   

 

[Orlando Buffalo]

4 hours ago, Limeaid said:

 

With Josh they could make a deal with his family farm to be supplier of fruit and nuts for the Bills.

Their kitchen goes thru a lot of food.

After the TB12 situation I wonder if there are now rules about doing business with a player run company. But if it is allowed, and I was the Bills, I would do it immediately and make it a contract one year longer than his current contract. 

[Saxum]

8 minutes ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

After the TB12 situation I wonder if there are now rules about doing business with a player run company. But if it is allowed, and I was the Bills, I would do it immediately and make it a contract one year longer than his current contract. 

I did not know Josh's father, whose farm it is, played for Bills.

[3rdnlng]

16 hours ago, Saint Doug said:

William Clay Ford Jr is the Executive Chair of Ford’s Board of Directors. While he doesn’t have an appreciable number of shares (3,868), he undoubtedly holds an enormous amount of sway within the Ford corporation. 

I think he took all the sway bars with him.

[3rdnlng]

Robert Kraft testified at his "Happy Ending" trial that if Tom Brady had never walked away from his $10,000,000 a year job at a Florida massage parlor he would never have been sucked in by undercover agents. 

[Saint Doug]

5 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

most recent:

https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/F/insider-roster?p=F

 

WCF certainly holds more than $57,000 in Ford stock..

 

Anyway, he is Executive Chair.  A link be tween the Board and the CEO.  There is no chance ever that he would propose such a dumb scheme to the Board.  It would be a blatant  violation of their fiduciary responsibilities to the shareholders.  

 

He could never influence the Board in this way.  It's absurd to suggest he can.   

 

Getting your stock ownership from Yahoo Finance. I need say no more, but I will. You’ve obviously never done any serious investment in your life. Boards do have a fiduciary responsibility to shareholders, yet this is rarely enforced by the SEC. Otherwise, CEOs like Randall Stephenson or Jeff Immelt would’ve never lasted longer than they did or receive their golden parachutes. Outside of fraud, when was the last time the SEC brought allegations against a Board?

[Mr. WEO]

3 minutes ago, Saint Doug said:

Getting your stock ownership from Yahoo Finance. I need say no more, but I will. You’ve obviously never done any serious investment in your life. Boards do have a fiduciary responsibility to shareholders, yet this is rarely enforced by the SEC. Otherwise, CEOs like Randall Stephenson or Jeff Immelt would’ve never lasted longer than they did or receive their golden parachutes. Outside of fraud, when was the last time the SEC brought allegations against a Board?

 

If you think Ford only owns a couple thousand shares of Ford....well, good for you.

 

Anyway, your argument has devolved into:  sure it's unethical ("fraud"), but hardly anyone ever gets caught!---so it's definitely possible!

 

That's the voice of "serious investment"??  Keep it coming!