sherpa Posted July 30, 2022 Posted July 30, 2022 1 hour ago, TSOL said: We are portraying china to be this big bad wolf these days. But China is a mess. They overcount their population to make themselves seem more powerful than they are. Half of their population are third world indigenous people. Their environment is utterly destroyed, like one entire province has no wildlife and their water is glowing green from their rampant abuse of the environment in the name of manufacturing. Yes, they manufactory and produce and have alot more money than we do because of it, But that's at the expense of their population, treating human beings as a commodity. Why do you think we don't want to produce any of these modern convienence in our own country? Stop buying their crap, the china problem is each and every one of us as individuals, it's our fault. We want these environmentally destructive shiney plastic modern convienence and we don't want to deal with the repercussions of how they are produced, well, we are giving China all our money for TV's and lith ion lawnmowers and they are using that money to build hypersonic aircraft carrier killer missiles. I fully agree and think they are way overrated militarily. They really have almost no offensive force projection. Their newest aircraft carrier is quite small, conventionally powered and requires underway replenishment very often. They are developing a nuc powered one, but we shall see. I have spent a fair amount of time there, at least in Beijing and Shanghai, and I was always surprised at the absolute lack of creativity in problem solving. They also have a demographic problem which is getting worse and limited resources. They need the rest of the world, not the other way around.
TSOL Posted July 30, 2022 Posted July 30, 2022 (edited) 13 minutes ago, sherpa said: I fully agree and think they are way overrated militarily. They really have almost no offensive force projection. Their newest aircraft carrier is quite small, conventionally powered and requires underway replenishment very often. They are developing a nuc powered one, but we shall see. I have spent a fair amount of time there, at least in Beijing and Shanghai, and I was always surprised at the absolute lack of creativity in problem solving. They also have a demographic problem which is getting worse and limited resources. They need the rest of the world, not the other way around. Their military size and budget is less than 1/3 of ours. Any technology they have is stolen, they don't innovate, they copy. Yeah, send pelosi to Taiwan. Edited July 30, 2022 by TSOL
Buffarukus Posted July 30, 2022 Posted July 30, 2022 (edited) 32 minutes ago, sherpa said: I fully agree and think they are way overrated militarily. They really have almost no offensive force projection. Their newest aircraft carrier is quite small, conventionally powered and requires underway replenishment very often. They are developing a nuc powered one, but we shall see. I have spent a fair amount of time there, at least in Beijing and Shanghai, and I was always surprised at the absolute lack of creativity in problem solving. They also have a demographic problem which is getting worse and limited resources. They need the rest of the world, not the other way around. i think your right on some level. thier military is quickly gaining pretty impressive capabilities. they have no issue showing off their subsonic warheads capable of long distances that cannot be intercepted. that alone makes any military disadvantage mute as tipping one with a nuke means instant mutual destruction. maybe not even mutual, depending on how quickly we can fire our own...I'm sure we have them but have not publically demonstrated. pretty scary. i will never for the life of me understand why the west is so eager to support and allow a country that is so outspoken on their hostilities. they sit back while china continues to gain so much economic power from the very people in which they are intent on overtaking. china has easily taken advantage of our biggest weakness. greed and corruption of government/corporate leadership to the deficit of its peoples national security. its a waiting game and are more then willing to sit back and loan us the trillions, sell us slave labor until we hang ourselves. Edited July 30, 2022 by Buffarukus
sherpa Posted July 30, 2022 Posted July 30, 2022 1 hour ago, Buffarukus said: i think your right on some level. thier military is quickly gaining pretty impressive capabilities. they have no issue showing off their subsonic warheads capable of long distances that cannot be intercepted. that alone makes any military disadvantage mute as tipping one with a nuke means instant mutual destruction. maybe not even mutual, depending on how quickly we can fire our own...I'm sure we have them but have not publically demonstrated. pretty scary. What "subsonic warheads capable of long distances that cannot be intercepted" do they have? I'm not aware that anybody knows what can or cannot be intercepted. Anyway, modern warfare is an extremely complicated and detailed issue, and capability is far more determined in command and control capability, and integration of coordinated many forces operating together. If you look at the US deployment during Iraq wars, you see that capability. The Chinese don't have that command and control integration, or at least have never demonstrated it. They operate on the standard centralized command, inflexible model, which is not responsive and ineffective. Again, they have no real force projection. I'd never add nuc warheads to the discussion. When that is added, nobody knows how things head.
\GoBillsInDallas/ Posted July 30, 2022 Posted July 30, 2022 On 7/27/2022 at 7:29 AM, Tiberius said: Should she stay or should she go? 1
PetermansRedemption Posted July 30, 2022 Posted July 30, 2022 Can Pelosi just move in there and become one of their politicians?
Buffarukus Posted July 30, 2022 Posted July 30, 2022 (edited) 5 hours ago, sherpa said: What "subsonic warheads capable of long distances that cannot be intercepted" do they have? I'm not aware that anybody knows what can or cannot be intercepted. Anyway, modern warfare is an extremely complicated and detailed issue, and capability is far more determined in command and control capability, and integration of coordinated many forces operating together. If you look at the US deployment during Iraq wars, you see that capability. The Chinese don't have that command and control integration, or at least have never demonstrated it. They operate on the standard centralized command, inflexible model, which is not responsive and ineffective. Again, they have no real force projection. I'd never add nuc warheads to the discussion. When that is added, nobody knows how things head. my mistake hypersonic but maneuverable like sub. im sure you can find better link then this is the first i found. https://www.timesofisrael.com/china-secretly-tests-earth-circling-nuclear-capable-hypersonic-missile-report/ i also believe russia used one early in the war in Ukraine, obviously not nuclear, just to show they had the capability and it was extremely accurate. https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/22/europe/biden-russia-hypersonic-missiles-explainer-intl-hnk/index.html i hope the billions we spend on defense has a answer for these weopons or like i said all our capabilities are mute when it comes to threats. saber rattle one of these and you have no choice but to listen regardless of command structure. the fact two inferior militaries have these weopons gives me some security ours is prepared...hopefully. our officials at least "acted" surprised by the capabilities. Edited July 31, 2022 by Buffarukus
Tiberius Posted July 31, 2022 Author Posted July 31, 2022 2 hours ago, PetermansRedemption said: Can Pelosi just move in there and become one of their politicians? She is in favor of democracy and freedom and all that. Trump and his ilk would fit in better there
Tiberius Posted July 31, 2022 Author Posted July 31, 2022 6 hours ago, TSOL said: Their military size and budget is less than 1/3 of ours. Any technology they have is stolen, they don't innovate, they copy. Yeah, send pelosi to Taiwan. Just a thought, but if their influence, not militarily, but through economics, propaganda and corruption, they take India out as a democratic nation, such as it is, that’s a big loss for our side. Biggest democratic nation in world, even with its flaws. Only real democracy in that part of world.
Coffeesforclosers Posted July 31, 2022 Posted July 31, 2022 (edited) On 7/29/2022 at 1:11 AM, ALF said: China has vowed to annex Taiwan by force if necessary, and has advertised that threat by flying warplanes near Taiwanese airspace and holding military exercises based on invasion scenarios. It says those actions are aimed at deterring advocates of the island’s formal independence and foreign allies — principally the U.S. — from coming to its aid, more than 70 years after the sides split amid civil war. A visit by Pelosi would “severely undermine China’s sovereignty and territorial integrity, gravely impact the foundation of China-U.S. relations and send a seriously wrong signal to Taiwan independence forces,” Foreign Ministry spokesperson Zhao Lijiang said at a daily briefing. https://www.cnbc.com/2022/07/20/china-threatens-strong-measures-if-pelosi-visits-taiwan.html I don't think the US and its allies can stop the military takeover of Taiwan by China . The world is too dependent on Chinese exports and chips from Taiwan. The US is trying everything short of war to keep Taiwan free. China was supposedly coordinating with Russian last winter. Russia was going to take Ukraine in February- March, then China was going to take Taiwan in June-July. It was going to be their big coming out party as New World Order. Woops. But right now, China can't assume that they'll bowl over the Taiwanese in a week. Instead they have to prepare for months of war, tens of thousands of casualties, and an insurgency. At a time when the legitimacy of the CCP is in doubt and their country is wracked with scandal and crisis. I'm going to assume they've read Sun Tzu and determined this is a horrible, horrible time to fight. Their country is divided, their enemy, Taiwan is united and prepared, and China doesn't know how good their military actually is. I dont know if China thinks they can take Taiwan right now. But its a one party state ruled by a dictator, so they may try anyway? Edited July 31, 2022 by Coffeesforclosers
B-Man Posted July 31, 2022 Posted July 31, 2022 So.............are we being stealthy or have we bowed to China's command Nancy Pelosi Headed to Singapore, Silent on Taiwan https://www.nytimes.com/2022/07/31/world/asia/pelosi-taiwan-china.html Pelosi stops in Hawaii and reveals her Asia plans. But ... - CNN https://www.cnn.com/2022/07/31/asia/pelosi-visits-hawaii-as-she-heads-on-asia-tour-hnk-intl/index.html
Albwan Posted July 31, 2022 Posted July 31, 2022 (edited) She shouldn't have one ounce of political power. #termlimits Also imho democrat gobbly ***** like this probably makes sense to leftist idiots. Edited July 31, 2022 by Albwan 1
BillStime Posted August 1, 2022 Posted August 1, 2022 4 minutes ago, B-Man said: , 1 hour ago, SoCal Deek said: You are aware that your meme world isn’t actually real…right? 16 minutes ago, Doc said: None of them are. Has he ever cared?
Buffarukus Posted August 1, 2022 Posted August 1, 2022 16 hours ago, Coffeesforclosers said: China was supposedly coordinating with Russian last winter. Russia was going to take Ukraine in February- March, then China was going to take Taiwan in June-July. It was going to be their big coming out party as New World Order. Woops. But right now, China can't assume that they'll bowl over the Taiwanese in a week. Instead they have to prepare for months of war, tens of thousands of casualties, and an insurgency. At a time when the legitimacy of the CCP is in doubt and their country is wracked with scandal and crisis. I'm going to assume they've read Sun Tzu and determined this is a horrible, horrible time to fight. Their country is divided, their enemy, Taiwan is united and prepared, and China doesn't know how good their military actually is. I dont know if China thinks they can take Taiwan right now. But its a one party state ruled by a dictator, so they may try anyway? i like the optimism but cant think of a better time unfortunately. im not sure how divided they are? wouldn't internal opposition be quickly crushed as is the major advantage of authoritarian communists? but speaking of divided check out this message board. we are the ones talking about civil war. add to that economic issues and already engaged in a full scale proxy war with russia. the only reason russia hasn't ran through Ukraine is the West's involvement. fighting 2 wars - one directly would be pretty terrifying just economically let alone loss of american life. im not sure of Taiwanese military capability but i cant see them defending effectively just due to numbers. also on the divided topic their are Taiwanese citizens that do ethnically consider themselves part of china. this opinion is just from bits and pieces of different stories so i can be way off base. my overall thinking is the US is looking to withdrawal vital manufacturing and then leave them to fend for themselves. so i think we will try not to instigate any early aggression until we take what we want. then its just another hong kong and we will see its people pleading for freedom and US intervention as they are overtaken to our silence on CCP as been the norm for most the world for awhile. its what happens when you rely soley on their manufacturing. the world isnt even demanding answers on a virus that killed millions so i think its clear we are already well under their thumb. pretty bleak right? not sure what makes this different then any other time we look the other way, including their current genocide campaigns. 😔😡🤬
dpberr Posted August 1, 2022 Posted August 1, 2022 IMO, China has finalized plans to invade Taiwan, and even the flimsiest of justifications is all they are looking for to start it. If you're China, if you want to do this, the time is now. This particular US administration will respond slowly, if at all. Japan won't do anything without first consulting the US. They don't have to worry about the Russians getting involved. Before, you had that Russian circuit breaker out there encouraging the Chinese not to inflame tensions but that's all but eliminated.
TSOL Posted August 1, 2022 Posted August 1, 2022 China needs to just keep making plastic trinkets, that's their thing. War is not their thing. War is our thing, we will crush them. Who are you putting your money on? Western Europe and the USA, or totalitarian Russia. And Chinese? I know where my money is going
All_Pro_Bills Posted August 1, 2022 Posted August 1, 2022 8 minutes ago, dpberr said: IMO, China has finalized plans to invade Taiwan, and even the flimsiest of justifications is all they are looking for to start it. If you're China, if you want to do this, the time is now. This particular US administration will respond slowly, if at all. Japan won't do anything without first consulting the US. They don't have to worry about the Russians getting involved. Before, you had that Russian circuit breaker out there encouraging the Chinese not to inflame tensions but that's all but eliminated. I've expressed similar thoughts but on this board you'll find several posters will accuse you of supporting Putin rather than pointing out a logical and strategic insight. Much like the Washington establishment which never attributes any cost to their actions, this anti-Russia obsession is their weakness as it muddles their thinking and blinds their eyes to more beneficial and alternative actions. I still have doubts were on the cusp of some major conflict as I'm not convinced Pelosi and a plane full of Washington insiders would put their own lives in harms way just to make a point if they thought hostilities were imminent and they'd be the first causalities. If they actually go through with this tour of Asia landing in Taiwan my guess is China imposes some serious economic penalties and actions such as cutting of specific exports to the U.S. market. 1
PetermansRedemption Posted August 1, 2022 Posted August 1, 2022 9 minutes ago, TSOL said: China needs to just keep making plastic trinkets, that's their thing. War is not their thing. War is our thing, we will crush them. Who are you putting your money on? Western Europe and the USA, or totalitarian Russia. And Chinese? I know where my money is going How about we just don’t “crush them” at the cost of millions of American lives to defend an indefensible island.
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted August 1, 2022 Posted August 1, 2022 16 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said: I've expressed similar thoughts but on this board you'll find several posters will accuse you of supporting Putin rather than pointing out a logical and strategic insight. Much like the Washington establishment which never attributes any cost to their actions, this anti-Russia obsession is their weakness as it muddles their thinking and blinds their eyes to more beneficial and alternative actions. I still have doubts were on the cusp of some major conflict as I'm not convinced Pelosi and a plane full of Washington insiders would put their own lives in harms way just to make a point if they thought hostilities were imminent and they'd be the first causalities. If they actually go through with this tour of Asia landing in Taiwan my guess is China imposes some serious economic penalties and actions such as cutting of specific exports to the U.S. market. China is as reliant on our printing press as we are. They have been quietly using our debt to finance ownership stakes in latam and the pacific ring’s infrastructure. They are probably still a decade or two away from having sucked us dry enough to no longer need us. Just like our political parties and respective propaganda ‘media’ outlets works they are vigilant in insisting their ownership of Taiwan in even the most subtle mentions as to drive a future mainstream narrative that matches their objective.
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