WhitewalkerInPhilly Posted August 10, 2022 Posted August 10, 2022 (edited) Oh look, people here are advocating the for defunding and dismantling of law enforcement? Let's go back to some of the takes from Summer 2020: "(Insert Appropriate Party Here) is on the side of the criminals!" "If he just complied, nothing would have happened" "If he has nothing to hide, then he has nothing to fear" "(Blank). Every time something doesn't go their way they start rioting" Basically what I am hearing is that law enforcement is supposed to go after "those people" and the idea that one of your clique could ever face scrutiny from law enforcement has scandalized you beyond belief. Do I believe that law enforcement on all levels has WAAAAAAAY too little oversight, and that judges are all to often to take law enforcement's word on its own as gospel, and that prosecutors wield terrifying amounts of power to destroy your life in order to get a conviction. Absolutely. Which is why progressives have been pounding the table on this for years, only to be drowned out about how they are soft on crime and Trump himself screamed about he was the "LAW AND ORDER PRESIDENT!!!". Well, now he has a taste of it. From Trump, to his accomplices, to the base that enabled them, you really did make your bed on this one. I am happy to help you advocate for legislation that fixes these issues, but I suspect that you'll stop caring the moment your prize con artist is not in imminent danger. Edited August 10, 2022 by WhitewalkerInPhilly
All_Pro_Bills Posted August 10, 2022 Posted August 10, 2022 (edited) 45 minutes ago, WhitewalkerInPhilly said: Oh look, people here are advocating the for defunding and dismantling of law enforcement? Let's go back to some of the takes from Summer 2020: "(Insert Appropriate Party Here) is on the side of the criminals!" "If he just complied, nothing would have happened" "If he has nothing to hide, then he has nothing to fear" "(Blank). Every time something doesn't go their way they start rioting" Basically what I am hearing is that law enforcement is supposed to go after "those people" and the idea that one of your clique could ever face scrutiny from law enforcement has scandalized you beyond belief. Do I believe that law enforcement on all levels has WAAAAAAAY too little oversight, and that judges are all to often to take law enforcement's word on its own as gospel, and that prosecutors wield terrifying amounts of power to destroy your life in order to get a conviction. Absolutely. Which is why progressives have been pounding the table on this for years, only to be drowned out about how they are soft on crime and Trump himself screamed about he was the "LAW AND ORDER PRESIDENT!!!". Well, now he has a taste of it. From Trump, to his accomplices, to the base that enabled them, you really did make your bed on this one. I am happy to help you advocate for legislation that fixes these issues, but I suspect that you'll stop caring the moment your prize con artist is not in imminent danger. For me the issue is how law enforcement goes about their business. Are they investigating crimes or are they investigating people? Because what typically happens is a crime is committed and then an investigation of that crime commences. During the investigation law enforcement interviews witnesses, gathers evidence, and typically complies a list of suspects and seeks to examine motives, alibi's, connections to the victim, etc. Then they make a case against a specific person, issue warrants based on probable cause produced during the investigation which may or may not lead to charges, arrest, a trial, and a conviction. What we have here is different. Its investigations of people searching for and looking for a crime. Political crimes, targeted enforcement. Somebody pisses off somebody else in power or becomes a threat to that power and then an investigation commences to "find" a crime to attach to that person being targeted. "Find me something we can nail this guy on". Pull this guys tax returns and take a look rather than some general examination of 1,000's of tax returns that kicked out 10 or 20 returns with some suspicious deductions on those filings which requires a look. That's also the problem with the 1/6 Committee. They're not investigating the events of that day. They're not looking at evidence and identifying suspects. They identified the suspects before the investigation even began. The investigation is limited to what they can tie to Trump and some opposition conspiracy. Dick Chaney even showed the establishments hand when he boasted that his daughter is going to nail Trump. That Dick Chaney, war criminal, would be so transparent in his remarks just shows these people fear nothing. Because nobody is above the law. Except for them. Frankly there is absolutely no difference between what's going on here and what Putin does to persecute his political rivals through the FSB. Yet the very same people that cry and moan about his dictatorial leanings are jumping for glee at the use of the very same power our government uses against people they don't like or see as a threat or act in a disobedient fashion to government control. Deniers are either blind to their biases or don't care. The problem for the DOJ and FBI is they better have some really big gotcha come out of this raid because if it doesn't what little credibility they have left is going right down the toilet. I expect all they'll accomplish is to energize and rally the opposition. Even those turning a blind eye to their abuse of power can't help but acknowledge it at this point. Progressive fascists calling other people fascists! Comical. Edited August 10, 2022 by All_Pro_Bills 1
ExiledInIllinois Posted August 10, 2022 Posted August 10, 2022 But, but but her emails! Get your "Hill The Shill" merch here! 😆 https://news.yahoo.com/hillary-clinton-trump-fbi-raid-mar-a-lago-but-her-emails-hat-183731036.html 1
Andy1 Posted August 10, 2022 Posted August 10, 2022 17 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said: Because what typically happens is a crime is committed and then an investigation of that crime commences. During the investigation law enforcement interviews witnesses, gathers evidence, and typically complies a list of suspects and seeks to examine motives, alibi's, connections to the victim, etc. Then they make a case against a specific person, issue warrants based on probable cause produced during the investigation which may or may not lead to charges, arrest, a trial, and a conviction. It appears in this case that a crime was committed. That is the removal of documents from the White House in violation of the Presidential Records Act. I haven’t seen anyone dispute the report that he removed at least 15 boxes of documents. 21 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said: Pull this guys tax returns and take a look So you mean like when James Comey and Andrew McCabe were targets of an intensive IRS audit.
WhitewalkerInPhilly Posted August 10, 2022 Posted August 10, 2022 (edited) 29 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said: For me the issue is how law enforcement goes about their business. Are they investigating crimes or are they investigating people? Because what typically happens is a crime is committed and then an investigation of that crime commences. During the investigation law enforcement interviews witnesses, gathers evidence, and typically complies a list of suspects and seeks to examine motives, alibi's, connections to the victim, etc. Then they make a case against a specific person, issue warrants based on probable cause produced during the investigation which may or may not lead to charges, arrest, a trial, and a conviction. What we have here is different. Its investigations of people searching for and looking for a crime. Political crimes, targeted enforcement. Somebody pisses off somebody else in power or becomes a threat to that power and then an investigation commences to "find" a crime to attach to that person being targeted. "Find me something we can nail this guy on". Pull this guys tax returns and take a look rather than some general examination of 1,000's of tax returns that kicked out 10 or 20 returns with some suspicious deductions on those filings which requires a look. That's also the problem with the 1/6 Committee. They're not investigating the events of that day. They're not looking at evidence and identifying suspects. They identified the suspects before the investigation even began. The investigation is limited to what they can tie to Trump and some opposition conspiracy. Dick Chaney even showed the establishments hand when he boasted that his daughter is going to nail Trump. That Dick Chaney, war criminal, would be so transparent in his remarks just shows these people fear nothing. Because nobody is above the law. Except for them. Frankly there is absolutely no difference between what's going on here and what Putin does to persecute his political rivals through the FSB. Yet the very same people that cry and moan about his dictatorial leanings are jumping for glee at the use of the very same power our government uses against people they don't like or see as a threat or act in a disobedient fashion to government control. Deniers are either blind to their biases or don't care. The problem for the DOJ and FBI is they better have some really big gotcha come out of this raid because if it doesn't what little credibility they have left is going right down the toilet. I expect all they'll accomplish is to energize and rally the opposition. Even those turning a blind eye to their abuse of power can't help but acknowledge it at this point. A few thing things: One, law enforcement misconduct has been a problem for a loooong time. You want to convince me that the FBI has purposely gone out of its way to find stuff on people? That takes very little convincing because we have a historical record on it. Declassified FBI files absolutely show that they actively targeted the Black Panthers, progressive organizations, and all the other stuff that good old Jay Edgar got up to. And this is a problem at local levels too. While I don't want to rely on anecdotal evidence for the main thrust here, there are legions of examples of local police being just sure that someone did something and then proceed to hassle them at the nearest opportunity. And this gets swept under the rug constantly and law enforcement has been vociferously defended by many fine bootlickers on this thread. They only seem to care when the "wrong kind of person" is on the other end. Two, are you kidding me? If Donald Trump wasn't a rich white dude with political connections, he probably would have been convicted already, best case scenario. We have seen people "shot while resisting" for far far less. This was a search warrant, which to be honest, was executed with more grace than many people get. People get convicted for when cops "hear a cry for help". Mueller found ten instances which could be investigated for felonies, but because he believed in the process he kicked the ball to Congress (controlled by Republicans) and the Attorney General (appointed by Trump). Same for Ukraine, only he got bailed out by people towing the party line. And then we get to all of his efforts to decertify the election, of which his partisans are still at work. What was on video and social media alone would be enough to get a normal Joe arrested, so forgive me if I don't wilt and blush at a search warrant execution. Three...look, I will level with you. I do not particularly like Joe Biden. I dearly hope that he chooses not to run in 2024. I don't want to give too much credit to him, and I will say that he is too much of a coward to sign off on something like this without being sure that it's a slam dunk. I highly doubt that he was not consulted, and did not sign off on this, and that he was not given assurances that whatever was found would disqualify Trump running in 2024. In short, you think the government is corrupt? So do I! Now stop ride or dying with the ones who are actively making the autocracy! Edited August 10, 2022 by WhitewalkerInPhilly
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted August 10, 2022 Posted August 10, 2022 25 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said: But, but but her emails! Get your "Hill The Shill" merch here! 😆 https://news.yahoo.com/hillary-clinton-trump-fbi-raid-mar-a-lago-but-her-emails-hat-183731036.html What strikes me as funny about this is they used a picture from 30 years and 40 pounds ago. It’s deceptive advertising, and it’s wrong! 1
Tiberius Posted August 10, 2022 Posted August 10, 2022 @Irv What a mess!! 4 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: What strikes me as funny about this is they used a picture from 30 years and 40 pounds ago. It’s deceptive advertising, and it’s wrong! Free speech, lol
BillsFanNC Posted August 10, 2022 Author Posted August 10, 2022 "Show me the man, and I'll show you the crime" - Lavrentiy Beria, Stalin's head of secret police FBI agents were at Mar-a-Lago in June and given access to the 15 boxes. Trump even stopped by as they were doing so and talked to them. Per Miranda Devine at NY Post. So yeah...this raid was absolutely necessary. 3
Tiberius Posted August 10, 2022 Posted August 10, 2022 Some clever person probably slipped this under him to sign and he of course didn't read it, lol 1
ALF Posted August 10, 2022 Posted August 10, 2022 10 hours ago, Motorin' said: Or she's KGB. Red Sparrow was a interesting movie 1
ExiledInIllinois Posted August 10, 2022 Posted August 10, 2022 11 hours ago, Wacka said: FBI went through Melania's wardrobe. Perverts probably sniffed her panties. Those were Don's panties! Melania goes commando... He needs extra wetness protection.😆
ChiGoose Posted August 10, 2022 Posted August 10, 2022 2 hours ago, WhitewalkerInPhilly said: Oh look, people here are advocating the for defunding and dismantling of law enforcement? Let's go back to some of the takes from Summer 2020: "(Insert Appropriate Party Here) is on the side of the criminals!" "If he just complied, nothing would have happened" "If he has nothing to hide, then he has nothing to fear" "(Blank). Every time something doesn't go their way they start rioting" Basically what I am hearing is that law enforcement is supposed to go after "those people" and the idea that one of your clique could ever face scrutiny from law enforcement has scandalized you beyond belief. Do I believe that law enforcement on all levels has WAAAAAAAY too little oversight, and that judges are all to often to take law enforcement's word on its own as gospel, and that prosecutors wield terrifying amounts of power to destroy your life in order to get a conviction. Absolutely. Which is why progressives have been pounding the table on this for years, only to be drowned out about how they are soft on crime and Trump himself screamed about he was the "LAW AND ORDER PRESIDENT!!!". Well, now he has a taste of it. From Trump, to his accomplices, to the base that enabled them, you really did make your bed on this one. I am happy to help you advocate for legislation that fixes these issues, but I suspect that you'll stop caring the moment your prize con artist is not in imminent danger. I forget who said it but I find this quote illuminating: “Conservatism has one proposition: that there must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, and out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect” It makes the hypocrisy around policing we see here make sense. Back the Blue unless the Blue is policing the “wrong” people. 1 1
ExiledInIllinois Posted August 10, 2022 Posted August 10, 2022 3 minutes ago, ChiGoose said: I forget who said it but I find this quote illuminating: “Conservatism has one proposition: that there must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, and out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect” It makes the hypocrisy around policing we see here make sense. Back the Blue unless the Blue is policing the “wrong” people. Yup. Trickles down to other groups too...
nedboy7 Posted August 10, 2022 Posted August 10, 2022 45th potus is clearly going down. Finally a maga moment. 1
BillsFanNC Posted August 10, 2022 Author Posted August 10, 2022 Plant stuff? The FBI? C'mon man! It's not like they got four FISA warrants based on complete bunk and an FBI agent pleaded GUILTY to altering evidence in order to bolster one of those applications. There's absolutely no reason to believe that the FBI given unsupervised access to Trump's private residence for hours would EVER do such a thing! A source close to the former president expressed concern that FBI agents or DOJ lawyers conducting the search could have “planted stuff” because they would not allow Trump’s attorneys inside the 128-room building to observe the operation, which lasted more than nine hours. 1
ExiledInIllinois Posted August 10, 2022 Posted August 10, 2022 /EndOfThread Nobody is above the law. Says it all.
TSOL Posted August 10, 2022 Posted August 10, 2022 4 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said: /EndOfThread Nobody is above the law. Says it all. That is a very naive statement of you young fella. You must be one of those new millennials around here. 1
WhitewalkerInPhilly Posted August 10, 2022 Posted August 10, 2022 16 minutes ago, DRsGhost said: Wow. Holy wild overstatement Batman. That occurred is less destructive or violent than countless no-knock warrants issued for going after drugs. In both cases, the justification has been "to prevent people from destroying evidence". No one was shot, which already makes this one of the better warranted searches in this country. So comrade, are you finally ready to place restrictions on searches and seizures in this country, with a greater perponderance of evidence required for a warrant, the removal of no knock warrants and greater civilian oversight on law enforcement activities? Because there was a big protest about that in 2020 that was about those things that I seem to remember that you did not look kindly upon? Or is this just "doing it to the wrong kind of people" and you are throwing out a soundbite showing your utter lack of knowledge on how law enforcement has been operating?
ExiledInIllinois Posted August 10, 2022 Posted August 10, 2022 4 minutes ago, TSOL said: That is a very naive statement of you young fella. You must be one of those new millennials around here. Naive would be thinking they had shaky grounds to execute the raid. It had to be scrutinized a LOT more than if it was Joe Blow Schmuckatelly. That doesn't mean 45 isn't a schmuckatelly or a Joe Blow. 😏
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