Training Camp practice 7/25

[HappyDays]

 

[Nelius]

Awesome stuff, thanks for posting. The fact that Shakir is already popping seems like very great early news. There have been some interesting discussions lately around NFL WR depth and the conclusion seems to be that despite some great 1-2 punches, and some extremely rare 1-2-3 punches (Cincy) that none of the top teams have amazing WR depth. If Shakir can pop and Gabe Davis continues to be the truth, this offense is going to be insane.

[GunnerBill]

3 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

No offense bud, but saying he will have a "career high in receptions and yards" isn't saying much when his career high in receptions is 30 and yards is 282 (both occurred in 2020).  So sure, he can have a career high in both with for example 33 catches and 314 yards...but that doesn't mean anything, just means he played essentially the same role.

 

Here is where I think you are incorrectly assessing the situation.  You just exclusively redistributed all of Beasleys targets exclusively to the Slot WR's, and thats just not accurate way to look at that this year IMHO.  Davis is going to see a relevant uptick in targets this year, and honestly, would not surprise me if he leads the team in receiving this year as a full time starter opposite Diggs while Diggs draws the tougher coverage.  Even if he doesn't, hes still going to get a lot more targets as a full time starter, and one that has great rapport with Josh.  Davis IMHO will see a bigger role as the WRs in this years offense than Sanders was in last years offense.

 

Now you also have Cook, who is going to eat a chunk of those slot targets this year, and I think he is easily in line for a 50+ reception himself season, if not even more.  Now you still have Knox whose only been getting better (also in a contract year) and the additional of OJ Howard to go along with a new OC that seems interested in using the TE more.  Not to mention, its a reasonable expectation that the run game will be getting more snaps and more involved this year from the start of the season. 

 

So, I cant see McKenzie suddenly getting all the targets he got last year plus another third of Beasleys, unless he dominates the snaps at slot, which I think is unrealistic based on how good Crowder is, and how good Shakir might be (and so far so good in what we have seen from him).  And with Shakir the future of the position, I can easily see him eating more targets up during the back half of the season too assuming he keeps doing a good job with his opportunities.  

 

 

It is fair that Cook in particular will eat into targets but they already threw it to Devin 50 times last year - I think Cook will take a lot of those. But I don't think Isaiah is going to be just a gimmick guy and the backup at slot in the way he has been in the past. He is going to get some run in that position even when Crowder is healthy. 

 

I'm not telling you he is going to suddenly going to be an 700-1,000 yard receiver in the way Beas was in his time here but I think 45-50 catches, 450-500 yards is a realistic projection and I don't think it is impossible that he leads the three slot receivers (Isaiah, Crowder, Shakir) in those regards. 

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

It is fair that Cook in particular will eat into targets but they already threw it to Devin 50 times last year - I think Cook will take a lot of those. But I don't think Isaiah is going to be just a gimmick guy and the backup at slot in the way he has been in the past. He is going to get some run in that position even when Crowder is healthy. 

 

I'm not telling you he is going to suddenly going to be an 700-1,000 yard receiver in the way Beas was in his time here but I think 45-50 catches, 450-500 yards is a realistic projection and I don't think it is impossible that he leads the three slot receivers (Isaiah, Crowder, Shakir) in those regards. 

Agreed.

[NewEra]

5 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

No offense bud, but saying he will have a "career high in receptions and yards" isn't saying much when his career high in receptions is 30 and yards is 282 (both occurred in 2020).  So sure, he can have a career high in both with for example 33 catches and 314 yards...but that doesn't mean anything, just means he played essentially the same role.

 

Here is where I think you are incorrectly assessing the situation.  You just exclusively redistributed all of Beasleys targets exclusively to the Slot WR's, and thats just not accurate way to look at that this year IMHO.  Davis is going to see a relevant uptick in targets this year, and honestly, would not surprise me if he leads the team in receiving this year as a full time starter opposite Diggs while Diggs draws the tougher coverage.  Even if he doesn't, hes still going to get a lot more targets as a full time starter, and one that has great rapport with Josh.  Davis IMHO will see a bigger role as the WRs in this years offense than Sanders was in last years offense.

 

Now you also have Cook, who is going to eat a chunk of those slot targets this year, and I think he is easily in line for a 50+ reception himself season, if not even more.  Now you still have Knox whose only been getting better (also in a contract year) and the additional of OJ Howard to go along with a new OC that seems interested in using the TE more.  Not to mention, its a reasonable expectation that the run game will be getting more snaps and more involved this year from the start of the season. 

 

So, I cant see McKenzie suddenly getting all the targets he got last year plus another third of Beasleys, unless he dominates the snaps at slot, which I think is unrealistic based on how good Crowder is, and how good Shakir might be (and so far so good in what we have seen from him).  And with Shakir the future of the position, I can easily see him eating more targets up during the back half of the season too assuming he keeps doing a good job with his opportunities.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I agree with most of what you’ve said in this thread, but I disagree that Mckenzie will have a similar role to last year. 
 

he was a complete afterthought the entire season 2021.  He had over half of his seasons receptions in one game.  He had one game with 11 catches.  One game with 2 catches and never more than 1 in any other game.  His role last season was as small as its ever been on the Bills.  His targets were down 30% compared to the previous 2 seasons.  I think he’ll get 42-52 targets. Last season he had 26.  12 in one game.  He was an afterthought.  Through week 10 he had 9 targets.  In 6 of those 10 games he didn’t get any targets at all.  He was inactive the next 2 games. Then got a little more play down stretch, but mostly just vs the pats….who played a ton of man.  
 

i love crowder, shakir and cook too.  I think they’ll all play key roles in particular games. I think crowder will likely get the most targets of the 4.  I just think Mackenzie’s role will be significantly larger than last season.  I agree with Gunner, that they’ll play him like a man buster.  Teams that want to play man one on one vs Mckenzie will be tested. 

[GunnerBill]

35 minutes ago, NewEra said:

 I agree with Gunner, that they’ll play him like a man buster.  Teams that want to play man one on one vs Mckenzie will be tested. 

 

And as I said above - we have four games in division against primarily man defenses (while Flores has gone in Miami his DC has stayed in post who also has that New England background so I expect their D to remain pretty man heavy). His two big games over the last two seasons for the Bills? Miami in 2020 and New England in 2021. That is no coincidence. 

[Rochesterfan]

6 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

No offense bud, but saying he will have a "career high in receptions and yards" isn't saying much when his career high in receptions is 30 and yards is 282 (both occurred in 2020).  So sure, he can have a career high in both with for example 33 catches and 314 yards...but that doesn't mean anything, just means he played essentially the same role.

 

Here is where I think you are incorrectly assessing the situation.  You just exclusively redistributed all of Beasleys targets exclusively to the Slot WR's, and thats just not accurate way to look at that this year IMHO.  Davis is going to see a relevant uptick in targets this year, and honestly, would not surprise me if he leads the team in receiving this year as a full time starter opposite Diggs while Diggs draws the tougher coverage.  Even if he doesn't, hes still going to get a lot more targets as a full time starter, and one that has great rapport with Josh.  Davis IMHO will see a bigger role as the WRs in this years offense than Sanders was in last years offense.

 

Now you also have Cook, who is going to eat a chunk of those slot targets this year, and I think he is easily in line for a 50+ reception himself season, if not even more.  Now you still have Knox whose only been getting better (also in a contract year) and the additional of OJ Howard to go along with a new OC that seems interested in using the TE more.  Not to mention, its a reasonable expectation that the run game will be getting more snaps and more involved this year from the start of the season. 

 

So, I cant see McKenzie suddenly getting all the targets he got last year plus another third of Beasleys, unless he dominates the snaps at slot, which I think is unrealistic based on how good Crowder is, and how good Shakir might be (and so far so good in what we have seen from him).  And with Shakir the future of the position, I can easily see him eating more targets up during the back half of the season too assuming he keeps doing a good job with his opportunities.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Although I agree in principle with this.  I think @GunnerBill called it more correctly.  I expect that the majority of Beasley’s catches still go to the slot guys and is broken up along a 40% Crowder, 35% McKenzie, 25% Shakir - getting McKenzie to career numbers (as you said not real hard).  
 

I think McKenzie will be used more as a true WR this year.  I think some of the trickery catches he had stay with him, but I expect Cook will get a bunch of those.  Cook will also get a significant portion of those catches that went to the combined RBs last year with Singletary getting the reduced number.

 

I also expect Davis to get most of Sanders targets - plus a few extra and the targets as a 3rd wr that Davis got last year go to additional Knox targets, OJ Howard, Shakir, and spread amongst RB, 3rd TE, and Gilliam.

 

The numbers are there to be distributed and who gets what will be interesting to see.  I expect that McKenzie’s targets and yards per target go up and he is used more like Beasley than he has been in the past.  I think Cook starts to fill the McKenzie role with some trickery due to his better vision and RB body.

[YoloinOhio]

SIAP

 

Maybe it’s the #10 but Shakir looks kind of reminds me of Bobby Trees out there 

 

 

[YoloinOhio]

 

[Beerball]

9 hours ago, Maynard said:

Love Allen: https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTRAsMese/?k=1

mmmmm tri tip😋 & not what other parts of the country consider tri tip. Santa Maria BBQ baby.

[GunnerBill]

29 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

 

 

Cam Lewis is a really interesting case. They have generally kept 5 corners.... and with White, Elam, Jackson, Johnson and Neal as roster locks there isn't an obvious space for Cam. But if White were to start the season on IR (4 weeks minimum) or PUP (6 weeks minimum) then he would appear to be the next man up. Maybe they keep a 6th corner - Cam did play on teams when he was active towards the end of the year. But if so where does that spot come from? The kept 10 dline last year, so that is an obvious place to look. Will be interesting to see. 

[YoloinOhio]

 

[HappyDays]

 

And apparently there is a practice today, not open to the public but the media will be there.

 

 

[Alphadawg7]

12 hours ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

I think I was one year early on my Gabe Davis to lead Buffalo receivers in yards prediction from last season. All signs point to him exploding this year. 

 I agree with all your points. 

 

I do think Allen will eventually be the first to the 6,000 total yards and 60 total TD's club. So if that happens this year then maybe everybody has career years. 

 

Yeah, I do really think Davis has a shot at leading the Bills in receiving this year, especially yards and TD's.  Not a knock on Diggs, more of a compliment to Diggs and the attention he gets.  The chemistry and timing between Josh and Davis seems incredibly high, and wont surprise me to see both him and Diggs as 1000+ yard WRs this year.  And Davis has proven he wants it and has put the work in to really breakout. 

 

As far as the 6000 total yards and 60 TDs, I mean if there was any QB in the NFL that cold do reach those marks its Allen.  He is easily a 5000 yard passing candidate every season and 500+ yard rushing candidate.  So its not unrealistic to see him put up say 5300 yards passing and 700 yards rushing with say 52 TDs passing and 8 TD's rushing for example.  

 

I don't think its likely, because I really do believe moving forward there is going to be a renewed effort and focus to keep our running game more involved than Daboll averaged.  Especially given that once the light switch seemed to flip at half time against the Bucs that almost led us to a comeback, we wouldn't lose again the rest of the season until the 13 seconds debacle.  McD was very vocal earlier in the season about finding a way to consistently run the ball too, so I think for Josh to hit that 6000 yard club with 60 total TD's it would have to be a situation where Josh once again was the whole offense.  And I just expect a little more balance than that with the OL additions, coaching changes at OC and OL coach, and the success we had once we got the run game going.  

[Alphadawg7]

9 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

It is fair that Cook in particular will eat into targets but they already threw it to Devin 50 times last year - I think Cook will take a lot of those. But I don't think Isaiah is going to be just a gimmick guy and the backup at slot in the way he has been in the past. He is going to get some run in that position even when Crowder is healthy. 

 

I'm not telling you he is going to suddenly going to be an 700-1,000 yard receiver in the way Beas was in his time here but I think 45-50 catches, 450-500 yards is a realistic projection and I don't think it is impossible that he leads the three slot receivers (Isaiah, Crowder, Shakir) in those regards. 

 

Fair enough, but I do think a more reasonable expectation for McKenzie this year though is less than 40 receptions and less than 400 yards.  Honestly, Crowder talent wise to me is just a better all around receiver and I honestly think Shakir is the future there and could make more of an impact this year than people think with the crowded grouping at the slot WR spot.  

 

Now if Crowder struggles to stay healthy, or surprisingly disappoints this camp, then all that changes.  I think Crowder could easily go from expected to starter to cut candidate if he struggles to stay healthy or struggles in camp, especially if Shakir keeps impressing the way he is.  But my assessment today on McKenzie is solely based on the expectation that Crowder doesn't disappoint and stays healthy enough to earn a spot on the team.  

 

And as far as Devin goes, he will still get receptions too this year.  He proved last year he can be good enough catching passes and effective.  So they are too smart to telegraph it to where they never throw it to Devin and always throw it to Cook.  So I still think Devin gets 30+ catches this year while Cook gets 50+ just because I feel like they really want to use their RB's more both in running and catching the ball.  So with Cook here I feel there is a probability that we see an additional 30-50 more receptions overall to the RB's combined compared to last season.  I can easily see another 2-4 receptions per game more going to the RB position overall this season compared to last.  Which is why I highlighted Cook in my last reply because I think his presence will be the main catalyst to the increase of targets to RB's.  

Edited July 26, 2022 by Alphadawg7

[GunnerBill]

17 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Fair enough, but I do think a more reasonable expectation for McKenzie this year though is less than 40 receptions and less than 400 yards.  Honestly, Crowder talent wise to me is just a better all around receiver and I honestly think Shakir is the future there and could make more of an impact this year than people think with the crowded grouping at the slot WR spot.  

 

 

I don't think Crowder is better thab Isaiah vs man coverage and that is why I think this ultimately will be a job share. 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

21 hours ago, eball said:

 

Gabe Davis anyone?

 

I suppose you could flip the slot WR with davis and move Diggs inside.  The idea is to force them to use man coverage and create a mis-match.  Its more of a single drive no-huddle strategy than a game strategy.  

15 hours ago, Jauronimo said:

I do not expect we will be seeing a lot of stacked boxes this year.

 

Exactly - so run until they stack it.  

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

14 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

Anyone who was there that can tell us the 3rd TE in the 13 personnel packages? I heard Quintin Morris looked pretty good. 

 

 

Haha— that is not going to stick. 

[Comebackkid]

On 7/26/2022 at 6:00 AM, YoloinOhio said:

 

Took me forever to notice the little one !