Training Camp practice 7/24

[YattaOkasan]

1 hour ago, Logic said:

I’m not sure where to find splits. I’ll poke around and see if I can find some and report back. If anyone reading this knows where to find some, please point me that way.

 

But yes, they were using Gilliam more, and they were also using Tommy Doyle as an extra blocker and eligible receiver quite a bit. He basically took on the “Lee Smith role” and became essentially a blocking specialist TE2.

I see what you mean now with Doyle. It was a really strange end without any TEs besides Knox. Like I said I agree with your other points. I think I’m most excited cause we can be more multiple this year with Howard. 

[Warcodered]

 

[John from Riverside]

5 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

We’ll see… I’m crossing my fingers someone else emerges as quality depth because Ford blows.

I don’t know man ribs never heal so…..

[Chandler#81]

16 hours ago, 716er said:

 A couple of my thoughts from camp today...

• Gabe Davis had an incredible catches  in the end-zone. A perfect throw from Josh. Could have just been the plays being run but I noticed Davis was streaking deep every time Josh threw the neball to someone else. Davis seemed to be showing off his new gear - was chirping a lot with the CBs after every rep
• Tim Settle's pick 6 was a beauty. He's also damn fast for a big guy.
• Bernard made Knox look like Robert Royal all day. Not a good practice by Knox. Bernard on the other hand looked like a Milano clone - except when he needed to cover a RB out of the backfield. He was burned a couple times on sweeps to the left. Cook once and I think Singletary.
• Watched Elam a lot. Ball was hardly thrown his way. 
• Von looks as good as advertised
• Josh had a couple inaccurate throws near the sidelines but by the end of practice looked like the all-pro we know
• Punt god can kick it

Can’t help it. I LOVE that an NFL kicker is nicknamed Punt God! CLASSIC! I hope he becomes an All Pro!

16 hours ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

McKenzie has fumbled a total of 10 times in his career.  6 his first season with Denver (2017) and 2 with Buffalo in (2018).

In his last 3 seasons with Buffalo, he has 2 fumbles.

 

He has fumble issues, and he knows it too.  Let's see how much work he is putting into improving and whether it's paying off.

 

All the PR guys fighting for the job have 2 extremely different punters to work with this summer and the best performer "this year" will hopefully get the job.

He can practice every waking hour of every day, it’s not going to matter. It’s physics. He’s small. His forearms are small, his wrists, hands and ‘elbow cup’ are small. The ball is going to come out. He’s great on deceptive end arounds with the ball in his outside arm ,running near that sideline, but don’t let him NEAR a kick in the sky.

Edited July 25, 2022 by Chandler#81

[GunnerBill]

11 hours ago, nosejob said:

we're gonna need to blitz more

 

We need to blitz less. The number of big plays we gave up last year that were vs the blitz - Claypool, Pitts, the OT winner in Tampa. It's not who we are built to be. I get it you have to blitz some to keep people honest and the Bills do (very effectively) run simulated pressures, which only work if occasionally you pressure but a bit like you don't need to run a ton to make play action work you don't need to blitz a ton to make simulated pressures work. 

 

Could we run a bit more 4-3 base against the power run teams? Yes, but they came up with other solutions last year too. Siran Neal instead of Taron as a bigger body in the nickel was one. And Bernard is not exactly a big thumper of a 3rd linebacker either, he is a Milano type, an undersized coverage linebacker. The only thing I really see changing on our defense this year is once you have Elam up to speed and White back healthy I think you can be more aggressive on the outside and give less cushion. The rest is going to be the same scheme, and a reliance on the upgrades they have tried to make to the line actually bearing fruit. 

[GunnerBill]

17 hours ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

I'd think McKenzie starting out with the 1's is more courtesy as the incumbent.  Could also be one of these where every day they alternate.

 

They are in genuine competition for the spot. That is a live battle. Their contracts support that too - they are both essentially 1 year $2m deals with the out McKenzie's deal has. I have said earlier in the spring I can see a job share early in the season where they use Crowder's subtlety against teams running more zone coverage and McKenzie's speed to get 1 on 1 separation against teams that play more man. 

[GunnerBill]

14 hours ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

maybe some pseudo-media connections? Seems like Cover One was represented, and so I wonder if some of these podcasts and local website writers had some reserved tickets? 

 

I think Astro just used to get them as a fan. I seem to remember when he was here he would occasionally put a shout out for spare camp tickets. I know Cover 1 made the accreditation list in 2019 though, before the pandemic and while things were much more restricted the last two years for obvious reasons I imagine this camp they just reverted to those accreditations. 

13 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

For those worried about the outside WR depth, the Bills clearly think the slot WRs can fit in there as needed. How successfully remains to be seen. But that is the plan.

 

In certain packages and running certain routes that is definitely true. I don't wonder about the depth in a game to game way.... I worry about it if Diggs or Gabe were to go down for any more than a couple of weeks. Because eventually teams cotton on to what you are doing putting slot receivers at the X and running drags etc. Eventually you gotta have your outside guy run the shot routes and that is my concern beyond our starters. 

[Rochesterfan]

55 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

We need to blitz less. The number of big plays we gave up last year that were vs the blitz - Claypool, Pitts, the OT winner in Tampa. It's not who we are built to be. I get it you have to blitz some to keep people honest and the Bills do (very effectively) run simulated pressures, which only work if occasionally you pressure but a bit like you don't need to run a ton to make play action work you don't need to blitz a ton to make simulated pressures work. 

 

Could we run a bit more 4-3 base against the power run teams? Yes, but they came up with other solutions last year too. Siran Neal instead of Taron as a bigger body in the nickel was one. And Bernard is not exactly a big thumper of a 3rd linebacker either, he is a Milano type, an undersized coverage linebacker. The only thing I really see changing on our defense this year is once you have Elam up to speed and White back healthy I think you can be more aggressive on the outside and give less cushion. The rest is going to be the same scheme, and a reliance on the upgrades they have tried to make to the line actually bearing fruit. 

 

I think this is 100% correct.

 

I think Cover 1 did a nice job after the regular season win in KC - showing how the Bills were mixing up the coverages, but doing a lot more tight man with White on the outside and Taron in the slot and then playing a more aggressive zone on the other side with much less space and tighter windows.  
 

It allowed Taron and White to play outside leverage and keep their eyes on the ball more and force the plays into the zones if needed and gave protection to Wallace.  It allowed Hyde and Poyer to move up and be more physical and limited Edmunds zone size allowing him to be more set.

 

The loss of White on Thanksgiving limited the ability to mix coverages as well as before.  Dane played well at times, but he was easily tricked by double moves and Wallace was just to slow.  That forced the Bills into standard 2 deep coverage to protect them - which they play very well, but allows really good QBs - Brady, Mahomes, etc to pick them apart.

 

I think they are hoping that Elam and White allow that same kind of switching of defenses to better match-up and perhaps better protect the weak spots by switching up where those weak spots are.  I think they believe aggression on the outside with talent will make the #1 defense even better this season.

 

 

[Son of a K-Gun]

16 hours ago, Chandler#81 said:

Boomed a couple 70+ yarders that I saw. Very good hang time too.

#PuntGod

4 hours ago, Chandler#81 said:

Can’t help it. I LOVE that an NFL locket is nicknamed Punt God! CLASSIC! I hope he becomes an All Pro!

 

 

With all this Punt God love, @Chandler#81 is giving new meaning to his avatar.  Araiza...must be Italian 😉

 

 

[nosejob]

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

We need to blitz less. The number of big plays we gave up last year that were vs the blitz - Claypool, Pitts, the OT winner in Tampa. It's not who we are built to be. I get it you have to blitz some to keep people honest and the Bills do (very effectively) run simulated pressures, which only work if occasionally you pressure but a bit like you don't need to run a ton to make play action work you don't need to blitz a ton to make simulated pressures work. 

 

Could we run a bit more 4-3 base against the power run teams? Yes, but they came up with other solutions last year too. Siran Neal instead of Taron as a bigger body in the nickel was one. And Bernard is not exactly a big thumper of a 3rd linebacker either, he is a Milano type, an undersized coverage linebacker. The only thing I really see changing on our defense this year is once you have Elam up to speed and White back healthy I think you can be more aggressive on the outside and give less cushion. The rest is going to be the same scheme, and a reliance on the upgrades they have tried to make to the line actually bearing fruit. 

  All good points, I just believe that there are going to be teams (olines) that rushing four against don't work. I'm confident it will be markedly better than last year, but there will be times when no pressure leads to getting picked apart.

 

  If  they can play press man and I hope that's their intention to do more often, than whether they're in 4-3 or nickel, they can send someone. Frazier had his chest out and soaked up the media love with touting his rush 4 motto against K.C. in the 1st game and well it was fruitless the 2nd time.

 

  I'd also love to see them experiment with a 5-2-4. put boogie over a guard like they did Lorax his last year. I'm expecting a huge upgrade from the inside this year, but now that we have an offense that's willing to game plan to opponents, we need to have that creativeness on defense as well.

[Dr. K]

12 hours ago, That's No Moon said:

If he's just out there to catch the ball, yes.

 

In a perfect world we have a real PR but that's not McKenzie I don't think it's Stevenson and I need evidence of anyone else catching the ball before I offer any sort of opinion. Catching kicks in Buffalo is probably the hardest PR job in football.

I just re-watched the  Atlanta game from last season the other day, and Stevenson looked absolutely awful as the return man. He kept running into his own blockers or got blown up by the Atlanta tacklers. I remember seeing a lot of this in other games as well. He runs too upright, makes bad choices, and seems to have no vision of the field. 

[GunnerBill]

23 minutes ago, nosejob said:

  All good points, I just believe that there are going to be teams (olines) that rushing four against don't work. I'm confident it will be markedly better than last year, but there will be times when no pressure leads to getting picked apart.

 

  If  they can play press man and I hope that's their intention to do more often, than whether they're in 4-3 or nickel, they can send someone. Frazier had his chest out and soaked up the media love with touting his rush 4 motto against K.C. in the 1st game and well it was fruitless the 2nd time.

 

  I'd also love to see them experiment with a 5-2-4. put boogie over a guard like they did Lorax his last year. I'm expecting a huge upgrade from the inside this year, but now that we have an offense that's willing to game plan to opponents, we need to have that creativeness on defense as well.

 

The difference the second time was they had to give cushion outside and, frankly, the line just didn't execute as well as it managed in the first meeting. But rushing 5 against Mahomes is a proven recipe for failure in any event. 

 

The idea of more of a bear front is something they have done on occasion, most notably at San Fran in 2020 when after the 49ers ran the ball right down the field to score on their first drive the Bills switched to the 5 man front, with Tremaine lining up on the edge and managed to shut the run game down for large parts thereafter. The other way for the Bills to get teams out of the run game against them though is to score on offense. See how much teams are willing to stick with it down multiple scores. 

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

15 hours ago, Logic said:

1) It was the implementation of more 12 and 21 personnel last year that finally got the Bills out of their offensive rut. They stagnated in a major way trying to operate only out of 10 and 11 all the time.

 

2) Heavier personnel does not necessarily mean running the ball more. The main objective is to put the defense in a bind as to what personnel to use themselves. If they come out in base, you can spread the field and get matchups like Cook or Knox vs a linebacker. If they come out in nickel, you have an advantage in the run game. 10 and 11 personnel do not necessarily present the same “pick your poison” dilemma.

 

3) Practicing and implementing heavier personnel groupings does not mean they’re not still going to spend a lot of time in 10 and 11 looks. It just means they’re diversifying.

 

 

 

I know Scott was mostly joking, but I do want to make a note about the idea of running heavier sets.

 

Remember the 1st Chief's game last season? The Bills came out and pounded the ball against a Chief's defense that was not prepared for it. 

 

Any time that you can make a team one dimensional, you can start to get them off their game, and that's what happened mid-season last year. I know that the game has moved to the pass, and I am no advocating for a 50-50 or even a 60-40 pass/run split, but you have to at least threaten it for play action to work, and play action can kick start an offense. 

 

Plus, if OJ Howard can at least be a capable blocker, that leaves Knox free in the middle of the field in 2 TE sets. I absolutely want to see more of that.

[That's No Moon]

1 hour ago, Dr. K said:

I just re-watched the  Atlanta game from last season the other day, and Stevenson looked absolutely awful as the return man. He kept running into his own blockers or got blown up by the Atlanta tacklers. I remember seeing a lot of this in other games as well. He runs too upright, makes bad choices, and seems to have no vision of the field. 

Yes. I've said in the past that Stevenson might have the worst field vision I've ever seen and I'm legitimately concerned for his safety returning kicks.

[ColoradoBills]

8 hours ago, Chandler#81 said:

 

He can practice every waking hour of every day, it’s not going to matter. It’s physics. He’s small. His forearms are small, his wrists, hands and ‘elbow cup’ are small. The ball is going to come out. He’s great on deceptive end arounds with the ball in his outside arm ,running near that sideline, but don’t let him NEAR a kick in the sky.

 

 I see what you mean.  

My observations were more along the lines of muffed punts.  I remember saying a couple of times he wasn't in proper position when the punt

came into his body.  I'd like to know the breakdown of what I surmised and what you've observed.

[TheBrownBear]

20 hours ago, ExWNYer said:

 

My older son just graduated from Virginia Tech. I think they were ranked #3 when he got there and were consistently ranked in the top 3. I see from your link that they are #2 for 2022. I can vouch that there were a lot of options and the food was legit very good.

I'm a UCLA grad and can confirm that they have very good dorm food.  There was a reason I went from 155 to 175 pounds in 18 months and it wasn't all a result of my freshman weightlifting efforts.

[Mattymafia]

Something I’ve never noticed before. Josh Allen says the word “Again” A LOT. 29 times in his first interview of the season. 
 

Has he created a new drinking game? 

Edited July 25, 2022 by Mattymafia
Quotation marks

[NickelCity]

15 hours ago, smuvtalker said:

It seems like many many posters on here agree with you....and when I think about that fumble against the Colts, particularly with not a soul near him and him just coughing it up like that, it certainly doesn't inspire confidence, but I just feel like maybe this can be the year he grows and puts the yips behind him and grabs that PR/KR position by the throat and doesn't let go OR give anyone else the chance to unseat him again....I guess I'm just that eternal optimist.  But in all seriousness, I only feel this way about him because I feel like he has the potential to be the most dynamic back there.  Amongst our other contenders, who represents an upgrade at the position over McKenzie?

 

I think you sort of implied the answer. Which is anyone who can hold onto the ball is an upgrade. We have a dynamic offense - I'm not taking return skills at the cost of ball security issues. 

[machine gun kelly]

14 minutes ago, Mattymafia said:

Something I’ve never noticed before. Josh Allen says the word “Again” A LOT. 29 times in his first interview of the season. 
 

Has he created a new drinking game? 

Reminds me of….

 

 

 

Annd Thennn?

 

One of the funniest stupid scenes ever, by even more stupid actors yet I still like it.

[Mattymafia]

7 minutes ago, machine gun kelly said:

Reminds me of….

 

 

 

Annd Thennn?

 

One of the funniest stupid scenes ever, by even more stupid actors yet I still like it.

NO MORE AND THEN!!!