You don't pay safeties, linebackers, or interior linemen.

[CoudyBills]

22 hours ago, JoPoy88 said:

Pardon? Are you white knighting for Cowherd? I was just pointing out that Colin’s obvious point was obvious. Obviously 

Obviously

[SCBills]

On 7/24/2022 at 10:23 AM, Chicken Boo said:

You pay impactful players, regardless of position and you don't overpay for role players.  

But who do we classify as “impactful players” vs “role players”?

 

I feel most would classify Von, Oliver, Edmunds, Milano, White, Poyer and Hyde as “impact players”. 
 

Is Taron Johnson an impact player?

 

We needed a legit 1 tech.. is Daquan Jones an impact player?

 

Both have decent contracts. Above role player level contracts, at least. 
 

The rest of the guys are on rookie contracts or prove it type deals.. I suppose that’s how you can make it work financially.  
 

Eventually though, you can’t have everyone being paid as impact players.. Even if they all are impact players. 
 

Perhaps it all works out with the cap exploding and Poyer/Hyde likely near the end by the time the young guys come due (if they’re worth it).   
 

All I ask is that there is money in the bank for Knox & Davis and that Allen is protected up front. 
 

 

Edited July 26, 2022 by SCBills

[machine gun kelly]

On 7/24/2022 at 8:33 AM, Allen2Diggs said:

The one I disagree with you on is tight end. You pay elite tight ends (Kelce, Waller, Kittle, Andrews). There are just very few of them. Knox could put himself in that category if he keeps progressing.

Agreed, but the market for TE’s is stilll light compared to WR’s these days.  I think they are even harder to find.  I listened to the first part, but was a little surprised Cowherd didn’t articulate RB’s as well.  I don’t see the value in paying too RB $ as they break down and you can keep finding them in the draft like Beane has done for three years.

 

Cook is a little different as he’s a pass catching RB, and McD wants this tool in his bag.  Singletary is not going to get too $ at the end of his rookie deal.

[GunnerBill]

12 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Ray Lewis and Ed Reed have some thoughts…. 
 

Also interior d linemen get paid handsomely and are worth it. 
 

don’t overpay players versus their value to the team, but sweeping generalizations about positions are just hot air. 

 

You pay ELITE guys whatever position they play. Ray Lewis and Ed Reed were elite (also fair to say that the era Ray played most of his football the MLB was a more pivotal position). 

 

What you shouldn't do is pay good off the ball linebackers, safeties, tight ends, interior offensive line, running backs...... whereas if you end up paying a good left tackle great left tackle money in order to extend him, you don't worry about that. The same with edge rushers, corners and true #1 wide receivers. The premium positions you overpay if you need to because the market dictates that. The non-premium positions you don't because FA generally offers you cheaper alternatives. 

[jwhit34]

The teams and GMs that are the best at managing the cap use first round picks on QB, CB, OT, edge rushers and WR. If they hit on those picks, they have good value for at least 4 years with those players. Add to that hitting on mid to late rounders and using free agency to add relatively cheap depth and you have the formula to pay really good players at other positions more on 2nd and 3rd contracts.

 

That formula has worked for Beane so far, but is going to be put to the test now with more good players at the other positions (like Knox, Poyer, Edmunds, Hyde, Singletary). He won't be able to re-sign them all but will be able to get a good percentage of them signed. 

[machine gun kelly]

10 hours ago, SCBills said:

But who do we classify as “impactful players” vs “role players”?

 

I feel most would classify Von, Oliver, Edmunds, Milano, White, Poyer and Hyde as “impact players”. 
 

Is Taron Johnson an impact player?

 

We needed a legit 1 tech.. is Daquan Jones an impact player?

 

Both have decent contracts. Above role player level contracts, at least. 
 

The rest of the guys are on rookie contracts or prove it type deals.. I suppose that’s how you can make it work financially.  
 

Eventually though, you can’t have everyone being paid as impact players.. Even if they all are impact players. 
 

Perhaps it all works out with the cap exploding and Poyer/Hyde likely near the end by the time the young guys come due (if they’re worth it).   
 

All I ask is that there is money in the bank for Knox & Davis and that Allen is protected up front. 
 

 

As usual SC, solid questions.  I’m really not worried about Knox and Davis as I think Beane will find as Andrew Brandt always cash over cap to make it work.  It would be great for a Poyer two year extension, but not at stupid $.  He’s set for this year.  I don’t see unless voidable years why go beyond two more.

 

Edmunds and Singletary are going to have to take team friendly deals if they want to stay on the team.  Oliver we can always place the 5th year on to kick the can down the road another year.

 

What some Chicken Littleites keep forgetting the TV $ will blow up the cap where in 5 years it will be over I’m guessing over $300 mil.  In 23 it was surmised by the capologists that will go up to around $226 mil., but in 24 supposedly $256mil.

 

IDK if these pundits are right, and we don’t know the impact of betting and all of these streaming options.  They also are starting the push into new markets like Germany, Mexico, and speculation of a location in S. America.  It may also be time where Toronto gets some games.

Edited July 26, 2022 by machine gun kelly

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

You pay ELITE guys whatever position they play. Ray Lewis and Ed Reed were elite (also fair to say that the era Ray played most of his football the MLB was a more pivotal position). 

 

What you shouldn't do is pay good off the ball linebackers, safeties, tight ends, interior offensive line, running backs...... whereas if you end up paying a good left tackle great left tackle money in order to extend him, you don't worry about that. The same with edge rushers, corners and true #1 wide receivers. The premium positions you overpay if you need to because the market dictates that. The non-premium positions you don't because FA generally offers you cheaper alternatives. 

Bills have done the underlined above and have arguably a top roster in the nfl.
 

The coach/gm with the most rings in nfl history doesn't conform to the old school polian doctrine above while delivering playoff contenders for two decades. 
 

There is no simple formula otherwise every team would do it. Every position and play style within each position has its own market dynamics. The teams that best navigate player valuation and roster fit, build sustainable success. There’s many ways to approach it. 
 

[GunnerBill]

22 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Bills have done the underlined above and have arguably a top roster in the nfl.
 

The coach/gm with the most rings in nfl history doesn't conform to the old school polian doctrine above while delivering playoff contenders for two decades. 
 

There is no simple formula otherwise every team would do it. Every position and play style within each position has its own market dynamics. The teams that best navigate player valuation and roster fit, build sustainable success. There’s many ways to approach it. 
 

 

We gave Morse a big deal when our QB was still on his rookie contract, he is very easily cuttable after this year when Josh's deal balloons. Otherwise we have really built our IOL from cast offs, UDFAs and bargain signings. Milano's deal is a borderline top 10 deal for linebackers and will soon be well outside that as young guys get signed up. The one position of those we have paid pretty consistently is safety but we for the most part had Hyde and Poyer for the price of one of the top guys. Even now, their combined contracts are just about equal in AAV to the top paid safety in Minkah Fitzpatrick. 

 

And again, so far we haven't had a franchise QB salary to deal with. Once we have we will have to be even more circumspect at those spots. 

[SCBills]

17 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

We gave Morse a big deal when our QB was still on his rookie contract, he is very easily cuttable after this year when Josh's deal balloons. Otherwise we have really built our IOL from cast offs, UDFAs and bargain signings. Milano's deal is a borderline top 10 deal for linebackers and will soon be well outside that as young guys get signed up. The one position of those we have paid pretty consistently is safety but we for the most part had Hyde and Poyer for the price of one of the top guys. Even now, their combined contracts are just about equal in AAV to the top paid safety in Minkah Fitzpatrick. 

 

And again, so far we haven't had a franchise QB salary to deal with. Once we have we will have to be even more circumspect at those spots. 

 

Yea, the whole "don't pay certain positions" applies when you're paying a QB top tier money.  Otherwise, a team can throw money around idiotically and not get burned, see Jacksonville with Lawrence on a rookie contract.

 

I think we're ok if guys like Poyer & Edmunds are willing to take representative contracts that give them a pay bump, but aren't coming close to resetting the market or matching those contracts that have.  

 

If they want to get PAID... I don't know how you do that with Allen's contract kicking in and a potential stud WR on the horizon due for a new contract, potentially, next offseason. 

[ColoradoBills]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

We gave Morse a big deal when our QB was still on his rookie contract, he is very easily cuttable after this year when Josh's deal balloons.

 

They just signed Morse to a 2-year extension a few months ago.  He's pretty much a lock next year.

[GunnerBill]

43 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

They just signed Morse to a 2-year extension a few months ago.  He's pretty much a lock next year.

 

I agree he will be here next year but if they wanted to get out it is very doable.