Bills ranked dead last in YAC last season.

[nucci]

irrelevant statistic

12 hours ago, DCofNC said:

I know the Homers don’t want to see it, but there’s not a single “explosive” player on the O outside of Allen.  Diggs is a great player, but nobody worries about him burning them.  There’s nobody else on the team that can beat an average DB in a foot race.  The biggest reason I wanted a 1st rd WR was to add explosiveness to the playmaker group.  Right now, it’s not there.  
 

Knox is the best bet to add YAC, that’s not great.  Hopefully Cook brings some help in turning short throws to long gains again.  
 

As of Today the O goes as far as Allen takes it.

Pretty much every NFL team regarding the QB

[BADOLBILZ]

8 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

You could put any dime a dozen RB into our offense and they'd have the same stat line. That's a function of how defenses align themselves to combat Josh Allen's right arm, not anything to do with Singletary's skill set. He's a fine NFL caliber player. But he has zero dynamic ability. That becomes more apparent as a check down option when more often than not he is stopped within a few yards of the catch point. Moss is even worse. When he catches the ball it takes him five years to turn around and start moving.

 

RB passing yardage has been a glaring gap in our passing production the past couple years, and I don't think it's talked about nearly enough. We have defenses begging us to take easy yards underneath but we haven't had a player capable of capitalizing on that. Now we've added a dynamic pass catching back with very little tread on the tires. I think Cook is the biggest addition made to the offense this offseason. If we still rank in the bottom 12 in YAC this year I'll admit I was wrong.

 

 

1. If Singletary's production can be replicated by any dime-a-dozen RB.........then I guess you are declaring that Cook should easily produce 5-5.5 ypc and plant Motor on the bench, then.   That would be fine by me but league average is only 4.2 yards per carry.

 

2. RB receiving yardage is fun for fantasy football players.................but that role was replaced in importance/usefulness in the NFL by small, quick slot receivers like Wes Welker a couple decades ago.   Because it turns out that you can get a lot more yardage just using a receiver to fill that role.    Some fans on here want to turn back the clock to the days of Thurman Thomas when he was getting matchups against 250# LB's.    Nowadays the LB's often run just as quick and fast as the RB's.   The game has changed.   

 

 

Edited July 20, 2022 by BADOLBILZ

[HappyDays]

6 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

If Singletary's production can be replicated by any dime-a-dozen RB.........then I guess you are declaring that Cook should easily produce 5-5.5 ypc and plant Motor on the bench, then.   That would be fine by me but league average is only 4.2 yards per carry.

 

I'm not 100% confident in Cook's ability to run inside consistently, not yet anyways. My understanding is that he wasn't asked to do it that much at Georgia. Singletary I think has better contact balance. And almost certainly better pass protection ability. But I am certain that when a hole is there Cook will hit it much faster and maximize the opportunity. There were a number of times last year when Singletary was too slow to hit the hole and it closed around him. So yeah I would expect Cook to be better there but it remains to be seen. Where I am 100% confident in Cook as an upgrade is as a receiving back. It is not even a question in my mind that his YAC per reception will be better than Singletary.

 

12 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

RB receiving yardage is fun for fantasy football players.................but that role was replaced in importance/usefulness in the NFL by small, quick slot receivers like Wes Welker a couple decades ago.   Because it turns out that you can get a lot more yardage just using a receiver to fill that role.

 

Sure, but it's even better if you can get yards from both roles. You're the one that's been saying the Bills should have focused on upgrading the offense this year. Our RB pass game, the outside run game, and the RB screen game have been practically non-existent since Allen came to town. Breida couldn't figure out which side of the field he was supposed to be on and fans still latched on to him because he gave us any level of dynamic ability at the position. Cook gives us that ability and opens up the play book. Just by adding him the primary offense now has zero glaring weaknesses.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

13 hours ago, DCofNC said:

I know the Homers don’t want to see it, but there’s not a single “explosive” player on the O outside of Allen.  Diggs is a great player, but nobody worries about him burning them.  There’s nobody else on the team that can beat an average DB in a foot race.  The biggest reason I wanted a 1st rd WR was to add explosiveness to the playmaker group.  Right now, it’s not there.  
 

Knox is the best bet to add YAC, that’s not great.  Hopefully Cook brings some help in turning short throws to long gains again.  
 

As of Today the O goes as far as Allen takes it.

 

The best bet to add YAC is to throw the ball on shorter passes, and away from the sidelines.  We added cook and crowder for this exact purpose.  

[Buffalo_Stampede]

4 minutes ago, dneveu said:

 

The best bet to add YAC is to throw the ball on shorter passes, and away from the sidelines.  We added cook and crowder for this exact purpose.  

Diggs runs a lot of hitches. I swear 90% of his catches are hitches. I understand why because he’s unstoppable on a hitch, but he’s so much more than that. Before Buffalo he was one of the most explosive WRs in the league. 

[Gugny]

If Allen had only about 400 fewer passing yards than Mahomes ... and the Chiefs were the best in the NFL in YAC ... and Allen/Mahomes had 36 and 37 TD passes respectively ... what does that really say?

 

To me it says that it's more about play-calling than Allen's ball placement.

 

Just looking at KC and BUF (for the purposes of this conversation), they're two offenses that work and produce; just in different ways.

 

With Tyreek gone/in Miami, I'd expect that KC's YAC will suffer and MIA's YAC will improve.

 

My long-winded way of saying this has very little to do with Allen's ball placement and much more about offensive philosophy and the types of receivers on each team.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

Just now, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Diggs runs a lot of hitches. I swear 90% of his catches are hitches. I understand why because he’s unstoppable on a hitch, but he’s so much more than that. Before Buffalo he was one of the most explosive WRs in the league. 

 

Hitches/comebacks are dangerous though... depending on coverage he's basically always open.  And if you identify man/single high you can eventually roast them on the double move.  

2 minutes ago, Gugny said:

If Allen had only about 400 fewer passing yards than Mahomes ... and the Chiefs were the best in the NFL in YAC ... and Allen/Mahomes had 36 and 37 TD passes respectively ... what does that really say?

 

To me it says that it's more about play-calling than Allen's ball placement.

 

Just looking at KC and BUF (for the purposes of this conversation), they're two offenses that work and produce; just in different ways.

 

With Tyreek gone/in Miami, I'd expect that KC's YAC will suffer and MIA's YAC will improve.

 

My long-winded way of saying this has very little to do with Allen's ball placement and much more about offensive philosophy and the types of receivers on each team.

 

Both teams had a TON of 2 high safety looks to counter a lot of the deep crossers that both teams excel at.  Buffalo beat this with deep threats and route running (hitches, out routes, etc.).  KC beat this with more YAC type plays - screens, short passing, and RPOs.  

[Buffalo_Stampede]

1 minute ago, Gugny said:

If Allen had only about 400 fewer passing yards than Mahomes ... and the Chiefs were the best in the NFL in YAC ... and Allen/Mahomes had 36 and 37 TD passes respectively ... what does that really say?

 

To me it says that it's more about play-calling than Allen's ball placement.

 

Just looking at KC and BUF (for the purposes of this conversation), they're two offenses that work and produce; just in different ways.

 

With Tyreek gone/in Miami, I'd expect that KC's YAC will suffer and MIA's YAC will improve.

 

My long-winded way of saying this has very little to do with Allen's ball placement and much more about offensive philosophy and the types of receivers on each team.

Ball placement is big but timing is right up there. Allen does hold the ball a step longer than a QB like Mahomes. Makes a huge difference.

[1ManRaid]

12 hours ago, SCBills said:

It’s a valid stat to point out.  
 

Yes, Allen can get better at short pass ball placement (which he’s working on).. 
 

However, it highlights - again - how Josh Allen dependent we were. 

 

Below average run game and dead last in YAC.  That’s asking your QB to do way too much. 
 

Cook & Shakir were two YAC monsters in college so let’s hope they translate.  

 

We had an above average run game, especially down the stretch.  Finished as the 5th ranked rushing team, with Singletary under the radar getting 4.6 yards per carry on the season and a team average of 4.8 (of course Josh inflates the team average being a league topper in yards per run).  The run game really came together after the windstorm game, which apparently caused Singletary to wake up one day and become the embodiment of violence.

 

People ignore the context of WHY we were last in YAC.  We were just so good at the chunk plays that naturally get low/no YAC, like strikes to the endzone and nearly undefendable deep sideline strikes.

 

With the additions we made this offseason I expect we'll naturally do better in YAC.  No point going out of our way to sacrifice what makes us dominant when we can just blend in YAC plays as an option to mix things up.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

6 minutes ago, dneveu said:

 

Hitches/comebacks are dangerous though... depending on coverage he's basically always open.  And if you identify man/single high you can eventually roast them on the double move.  

 

Both teams had a TON of 2 high safety looks to counter a lot of the deep crossers that both teams excel at.  Buffalo beat this with deep threats and route running (hitches, out routes, etc.).  KC beat this with more YAC type plays - screens, short passing, and RPOs.  

It’s one of those things where if it ain’t broke why fix it right? No one can cover Diggs on a hitch. 
 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

4 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Ball placement is big but timing is right up there. Allen does hold the ball a step longer than a QB like Mahomes. Makes a huge difference.

 

Buffalo just threw the ball further down the field.  I'm sure if you looked at the % of throws behind the LOS or within 5 yards - KC has more than Buffalo.  

 

They have a more athletic and generally better offensive line than buffalo - especially on the interior.  Why wouldn't you run more screens and RPOs?

[Buffalo_Stampede]

4 minutes ago, 1ManRaid said:

 

We had an above average run game, especially down the stretch.  Finished as the 5th ranked rushing team, with Singletary under the radar getting 4.6 yards per carry on the season and a team average of 4.8 (of course Josh inflates the team average being a league topper in yards per run).  The run game really came together after the windstorm game, which apparently caused Singletary to wake up one day and become the embodiment of violence.

 

People ignore the context of WHY we were last in YAC.  We were just so good at the chunk plays that naturally get low/no YAC, like strikes to the endzone and nearly undefendable deep sideline strikes.

 

With the additions we made this offseason I expect we'll naturally do better in YAC.  No point going out of our way to sacrifice what makes us dominant when we can just blend in YAC plays as an option to mix things up.

Josh Allen gets most of his yards through the air. He’s going to always be near the top in air yard stats. Tom Brady believe it not dominated air yards last year and was # 1. How is that even possible? Not only that but look at this? How? I might start taking TB12.

 

 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

6 minutes ago, dneveu said:

 

Buffalo just threw the ball further down the field.  I'm sure if you looked at the % of throws behind the LOS or within 5 yards - KC has more than Buffalo.  

 

They have a more athletic and generally better offensive line than buffalo - especially on the interior.  Why wouldn't you run more screens and RPOs?

Scheme is definitely part of the lack of YAC. But I think it’s likely a coaching to your strengths thing. Maybe next year we’ll see more of that because the projected OL can all move well.

[Shaw66]

12 hours ago, SCBills said:

It’s a valid stat to point out.  
 

Yes, Allen can get better at short pass ball placement (which he’s working on).. 
 

However, it highlights - again - how Josh Allen dependent we were. 

 

Below average run game and dead last in YAC.  That’s asking your QB to do way too much. 
 

Cook & Shakir were two YAC monsters in college so let’s hope they translate.  

Hey, SC -  This is good stuff.  I like it.   I agree it's a valid stat.   But what it's useful for is to help understand how the Bills offense works, which is what you do in this post.  

 

What I object to is the notion that there's something wrong with the team because they were last in YAC.   The problem is that people talk about a stat like that as though it correlates with winning, and therefore needs to be fixed.   That's wrong.   YAC is just one of dozens and dozens of stats.  

 

Points for and points against correlates with winning.   Giveaway-Takeaway correlates with winning.  YAC doesn't.  

 

I reminds of a few years ago, in the Taylor era, when there were these endless discussions about Tyrod not having enough completions over the middle.   Yes, a couple more completions over the middle would have been nice, but so would a variety of other statistical improvements.  

 

As I've said, more effectiveness in passing to the backs will change YAC, because those are the nearly-automatic YAC plays.   As others have said, Josh extending plays reduces the number of throws to backs.  Do we want Josh to stop extending plays so the Bills can increase YAC.   I don't think so.  

[Awwufelloff]

James Cook will change that for us this year. 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

2 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Hey, SC -  This is good stuff.  I like it.   I agree it's a valid stat.   But what it's useful for is to help understand how the Bills offense works, which is what you do in this post.  

 

What I object to is the notion that there's something wrong with the team because they were last in YAC.   The problem is that people talk about a stat like that as though it correlates with winning, and therefore needs to be fixed.   That's wrong.   YAC is just one of dozens and dozens of stats.  

 

Points for and points against correlates with winning.   Giveaway-Takeaway correlates with winning.  YAC doesn't.  

 

I reminds of a few years ago, in the Taylor era, when there were these endless discussions about Tyrod not having enough completions over the middle.   Yes, a couple more completions over the middle would have been nice, but so would a variety of other statistical improvements.  

 

As I've said, more effectiveness in passing to the backs will change YAC, because those are the nearly-automatic YAC plays.   As others have said, Josh extending plays reduces the number of throws to backs.  Do we want Josh to stop extending plays so the Bills can increase YAC.   I don't think so.  

Josh isn’t your typical rhythm progression passer where he goes through reads and dumps to the RB in the flat. I think it might be fair to add a lot of Josh’s yards on the ground as YAC yards because instead of dumping it to the flat he’s extending the play or taking off running.

I think this stat is pretty meaningless honestly because of the way Josh plays the position. He’s just different. 

 

[SCBills]

2 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Hey, SC -  This is good stuff.  I like it.   I agree it's a valid stat.   But what it's useful for is to help understand how the Bills offense works, which is what you do in this post.  

 

What I object to is the notion that there's something wrong with the team because they were last in YAC.   The problem is that people talk about a stat like that as though it correlates with winning, and therefore needs to be fixed.   That's wrong.   YAC is just one of dozens and dozens of stats.  

 

Points for and points against correlates with winning.   Giveaway-Takeaway correlates with winning.  YAC doesn't.  

 

I reminds of a few years ago, in the Taylor era, when there were these endless discussions about Tyrod not having enough completions over the middle.   Yes, a couple more completions over the middle would have been nice, but so would a variety of other statistical improvements.  

 

As I've said, more effectiveness in passing to the backs will change YAC, because those are the nearly-automatic YAC plays.   As others have said, Josh extending plays reduces the number of throws to backs.  Do we want Josh to stop extending plays so the Bills can increase YAC.   I don't think so.  

 

I agree with a lot of this as well.  Allen is money on those intermediate lasers.. instead of a 7 yard slant that the WR takes another 7-10 yards, Allen just throws a 15-20 yard frozen rope down the field.  That definitely accounts for some of this.  

 

The issue I have is that we forget how stuck in the mud this team could get until we started running Josh.  That needs to stop moving forward (playoffs aside).  I think our coaches understand that and will address is on two fronts.. stronger run game and stronger YAC game. Part of that is Dorsey (hopefully) scheming up some short/easy throws into space as an extension of the run game.  

 

I believe we'll see a handful more runs from Singletary/Cook/Moss per game, but I truly believe/hope the short passing game to Cook, Crowder, McKenzie, perhaps Shakir etc., will be a bigger focus to take some of the stress off Allen's legs in the regular season.  

 

Come Playoff time, if we are more well rounded, and then we can simply run Allen because we want to.. this Offense will be absurd.  

[Plano]

13 hours ago, 1ManRaid said:

Call me crazy, I'm fine with zero YAC on a 40-50 air yards bomb or a 20-30 yard undefendable laser to the sideline, rather than having to depend on getting 8-10 YAC on a pass to the LoS just to rank higher in a largely meaningless metric.

 

I anticipate more YAC this year with having added a couple pass catching RBs and being a bit more slot heavy, but YAC specifically isn't really something we need to go out of our way to be desperate for.

agreed.

 

we can /thread now, nothing more needs to be said! 

[Buffalo Boy]

10 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Josh isn’t your typical rhythm progression passer where he goes through reads and dumps to the RB in the flat. I think it might be fair to add a lot of Josh’s yards on the ground as YAC yards because instead of dumping it to the flat he’s extending the play or taking off running.

I think this stat is pretty meaningless honestly because of the way Josh plays the position. He’s just different. 

 

    Agreed.

    And, he can hit those sideline routes which are really just a function of scramble drills due to pressure. There is no design to this sort of play or potential for YAC.That’s his game and Daboll seemed comfortable letting him do it.

    He’s also never had a great running game or O line as mentioned above. Hopefully, this year he gets a chance to be comfortable in the pocket. That immediately would allow him to hit some designed plays with timing. 
    Regarding the “ If it ain’t broke” argument …… having Josh expand his repertoire into ball control and quick hitting slants and crossing routes can only help in the long run. It will also serve to keep the designed QB runs down which I hate, except on the real short yardage stuff.

 

 

[JerseyBills]

15 hours ago, DCofNC said:

I know the Homers don’t want to see it, but there’s not a single “explosive” player on the O outside of Allen.  Diggs is a great player, but nobody worries about him burning them.  There’s nobody else on the team that can beat an average DB in a foot race.  The biggest reason I wanted a 1st rd WR was to add explosiveness to the playmaker group.  Right now, it’s not there.  
 

Knox is the best bet to add YAC, that’s not great.  Hopefully Cook brings some help in turning short throws to long gains again.  
 

As of Today the O goes as far as Allen takes it.

Diggs leads the league in yardage against single coverage since 2020.

He's fast and explosive imo. But I agree about the others. Bease was definitely too banged up to get yac and seemed to avoid contact.Hopefully Crowder can help and a guy like McKenzie needs more opportunities in open space. And ya Cook should be a beast with YAC in this offense