Ranking Top 3 Bills quarterbacks between Post-Kelly Era and Josh Era

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said:

It really just blows my mind that so many people have him in their top 3. The guy had as many turnovers as TDs!! He set an NFL record (at the time) with 10 lost fumbles in a season. He lost more than he won despite talent around him. He was sacked 140 times in 4 years!! He only scored 59 TDs in 48 starts including the hot 8 game stretch. Outside of that he was accounting for less than a TD a game and more than 1 turnover per game. Just an awful football player.

 

People thinking that Bledsoe was good is probably my biggest Bills pet peeve. When you show the proof and ask them, “why” you always hear about his arm or those 8 games. The guy played 4 years and set the drought in motion. He was closer to Edwards than to Fitz/Tyrod.

 

 

Tyrod fought a huge confirmation bias coming in.

 

He came to Buffalo with a label as just a running QB who was undersized,  a late round nobody who couldn't get on the field in Baltimore.

 

That is most certainly NOT what a lot of Bills fans wanted their QB to be.

 

In the eyes of many he had to first prove he wasn't a bum...........so everything he did was always taken with a grain of salt........always anticipating his failure.

 

Where QB's like Bledsoe, Losman, Trent, Fitz, EJ and Orton with prototypical size and better draft/passing pedigrees were all given the opportunity to prove they weren't good.

 

So a lot of people look back fondly on their initial successes..........before they proved that they were, in fact,  bums.

 

Tyrod was most certainly better than ALL of those bums.

 

It's laughable that people consider Bledsoe and Fitz as better..........they were turnover factories.  

 

Fitz lead the NFL in interceptions in one of his seasons in Buffalo.    

 

But.........you know........he "looked" like a QB.

 

Tyrod perceived the higher standard he was held to as racism...........and there was some of that......no non-ST holder can tell me otherwise because I am in that stadium every game week and HEARD it...........but it was more broadly about people EXPECTING him to fail and needing to confirm that.........and subsequently never appreciating his actual production compared to his predecessors.  

 

 

Edited July 23, 2022 by BADOLBILZ

[RiotAct]

Flutie

Bledsoe

Fitzpatrick

Honorable mention: Tyrod (really considered putting him 3rd)

[SinceThe70s]

I'm late to the game but I'd go with Flutie, Tyrod, Fitz. What they all had in common (the rest of the pack too if you don't like my top 3)  is that you knew they weren't good enough to carry the Bills to a Super Bowl but you hoped they could have a Dilfer-esque run. What a great time it is to go into the season fully confident that the QB is more than capable of winning it all.  Good times.

[Mattymafia]

On 7/19/2022 at 10:47 AM, Rigby said:

Brian Brohm!

 

Worst part is I LOVED Brian Brohm in college. Dude was slinging the ball with broken thumbs. 

[Buffalo03]

On 7/19/2022 at 10:03 AM, extrahammer said:

After reading through the Tyrod legacy thread (really makes you love the offseason) I woke up this morning wanting to fight by ranking the top 3 quarterbacks for the Bills between the Post-Kelly era and before Josh arrived. Curious how each of you would rank the Bills quarterbacks between 1997-2017, here are your options:

 

Todd Collins

Doug Flutie

Rob Johnson (pro tip: this is not the answer) 

Alex Van Pelt

Drew Bledsoe

J.P. Losman 

Kelly Holcomb

Trent Edwards

Ryan Fitzpatrick

Brian Brohm

E.J. Manuel

Thad Lewis

Jeff Tuel

Kyle Orton

Tyrod Taylor

Matt Cassel

Nathaniel Peterman

 

Who are your top 3? 

 

Flutie

Bledsoe

Taylor

 

Love Fitzpatrick but couldn't quite put him on the list

[BillsFanForever19]

19 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Another argument I don’t understand is Fitz over Tyrod…. No ***** way. Fitz was reckless…I’ll take Tyrod and his some what conservative way of playing over Fitz any day of the week. 
 

Have to agree…there is some racism in all of the Tyrod slander. 

Ridiculous hyperbole… but I knew you had no idea what you were talking about when you put Bledsoe first. 😅

 

Yes, there was some hyperbole there. But if you're saying you were watching him play, especially when we were behind, and didn't find yourself saying "just throw the f'n ball!" - I don't believe you.

 

I'll take interceptions if you're trying to make something happen when you have to. Too often with Tyrod it felt like ball security and his low interception rate was more paramount than trying to win the game when it was on the line. There was zero attempt to try and force the issue when we needed it. With Josh, you never feel out of it. With Tyrod, you knew if we fell down by more than a TD - it was over.

 

That's a big part of why I put Fitz and Bledsoe above him. They'd throw picks. But there was urgency in their game and those things often came with them trying to win a game. Tyrod was just way too safe and cautious. He was the QB that didn't lose you the game if the Defense and the Running game carried it. He was a game manager. 

Edited July 23, 2022 by BillsFanForever19

[Kirby Jackson]

2 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

Yes, there was some hyperbole there. But if you're saying you were watching him play, especially when we were behind, and didn't find yourself saying "just throw the f'n ball!" - I don't believe you.

 

I'll take interceptions if you're trying to make something happen when you have to. Too often with Tyrod it felt like ball security and his low interception rate was more paramount than trying to win the game when it was on the line. There was zero attempt to try and force the issue when we needed it. With Josh, you never feel out of it. With Tyrod, you knew if we fell down by more than a TD - it was over.

 

That's a big part of why I put Fitz and Bledsoe above him. They'd throw picks. But there was urgency in their game and those things often came with them trying to win a game. Tyrod was just way too safe and cautious. He was the QB that didn't lose you the game if the Defense and the Running game carried it. He was a game manager. 

But he scored WAY more often than Bledsoe. He averaged more yards than Bledsoe. He was more efficient than Bledsoe. He turned it over WAY less often than Bledsoe. He won significantly more than Bledsoe. Please elaborate on why your perception is that Bledsoe was better? What, specifically, did Bledsoe do better? 

[GunnerBill]

21 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Another argument I don’t understand is Fitz over Tyrod…. No ***** way. Fitz was reckless…I’ll take Tyrod and his some what conservative way of playing over Fitz any day of the week. 

 

See I am totally the opposite. I would be willing to take Fitz and the heartbreaking late turnovers every day of the week over Tyrod. Tyrod and Rex genuinely got me close to packing it all in. Tyrod played not to lose and I hate everything about that as a mindset. I hated watching him play Quarterback.  It was a style that sucked any enjoyment out of the sport for me. I recognise his success, don't get me wrong. But give me Fitz trying to play to win with every firbe of his being every day. 

[BADOLBILZ]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

See I am totally the opposite. I would be willing to take Fitz and the heartbreaking late turnovers every day of the week over Tyrod. Tyrod and Rex genuinely got me close to packing it all in. Tyrod played not to lose and I hate everything about that as a mindset. I hated watching him play Quarterback.  It was a style that sucked any enjoyment out of the sport for me. I recognise his success, don't get me wrong. But give me Fitz trying to play to win with every firbe of his being every day. 

 

 

When Taylor was throwing for 8 yards per attempt in 2015 fans weren't saying he was tentative and playing not to lose.

 

The team's situation changed.........the 2016(injuries) and 2017(no talent) the WR corps were mostly terrible.........so Tyrod adjusted.........it was frustrating football to watch, but he knew his receivers and his own limitations and didn't allow them to cost his team games and in the process he produced and lead effective offenses that dominated teams on the ground.    

 

Fitz had one play speed his entire career.........he was unwilling to adjust to his team or the situation............he only cared to win if he could do it HIS way.

 

For some reason people act like he just didn't know any better........even though he was an Ivy League grad.

 

In all 3 of his seasons in Buffalo Tyrod Taylor played playoff worthy football at the QB position.........he wasn't the reason they lost and he produced and that's why he's a career winning starting QB.

 

Fitz never played a season of playoff worthy football in his career...........the one year he came close when he had the Jets at 10-5 going into Buffalo........he totally ***** choked with a disastrous performance against the Bills (and Tyrod).

 

I'm a Fitz fan........I wish things had worked out very differently with his career...........but he EARNED his abysmal career record.

 

[BillsFanForever19]

3 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

But he scored WAY more often than Bledsoe. He averaged more yards than Bledsoe. He was more efficient than Bledsoe. He turned it over WAY less often than Bledsoe. He won significantly more than Bledsoe. Please elaborate on why your perception is that Bledsoe was better? What, specifically, did Bledsoe do better? 

 

Bledsoe threw for 4,359 yards in 2002. He wasn't always great, especially down the stretch. But as a passer, Tyrod never came close to that. Bledsoe to Moulds was a scary connection in 2002. Arm talent, Taylor wasn't close to Bledsoe. Tyrod didn't win those games so much as he managed those games. Taylor plays not to lose. Cleveland started him and saw the same thing. He's an ideal keep the boat steady backup QB. 

Edited July 24, 2022 by BillsFanForever19

[GunnerBill]

6 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

When Taylor was throwing for 8 yards per attempt in 2015 fans weren't saying he was tentative and playing not to lose.

 

The team's situation changed.........the 2016(injuries) and 2017(no talent) the WR corps were mostly terrible.........so Tyrod adjusted.........it was frustrating football to watch, but he knew his receivers and his own limitations and didn't allow them to cost his team games and in the process he produced and lead effective offenses that dominated teams on the ground.    

 

Fitz had one play speed his entire career.........he was unwilling to adjust to his team or the situation............he only cared to win if he could do it HIS way.

 

For some reason people act like he just didn't know any better........even though he was an Ivy League grad.

 

In all 3 of his seasons in Buffalo Tyrod Taylor played playoff worthy football at the QB position.........he wasn't the reason they lost and he produced and that's why he's a career winning starting QB.

 

Fitz never played a season of playoff worthy football in his career...........the one year he came close when he had the Jets at 10-5 going into Buffalo........he totally ***** choked with a disastrous performance against the Bills (and Tyrod).

 

I'm a Fitz fan........I wish things had worked out very differently with his career...........but he EARNED his abysmal career record.

 

 

You are the one who says all the time - this should be fun - and I agree totally. There was nothing fun to me about watching Tyrod. Even in 2015. The two games over his 3 years I will genuinely say were fun were the 2015 opener over the Colts and the 2016 loss in Seattle where the comeback fell short at the end. The rest? It just wasn't fun to me at all. Tyrod was competent. I have never, ever disputed that. But I just hated his style of playing Quarterback. He held the ball for ***** ever even going back to 2015 and ran around behind the line and it just drove me to distraction. Honestly it was the least fun period of my fandom even though until that point it was as competitive as the team had been in my fandom. I hated the coach with a passion (Rex) and I found our Quarterback impossible to enjoy. For some people it is only ever about the winning. I have always thought if you are not enjoying watching your sports team then stop and do something else. 2016 is the closest I came to that. I found it less fun than Jauron and Trentative.

[Kirby Jackson]

12 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

Bledsoe threw for 4,359 yards in 2002. He wasn't always great, especially down the stretch. But as a passer, Tyrod never came close to that. Bledsoe to Moulds was a scary connection in 2002. Arm talent, Taylor wasn't close to Bledsoe. Tyrod didn't win those games so much as he managed those games. Taylor plays not to lose. Cleveland started him and saw the same thing. He's an ideal keep the boat steady backup QB. 

 

I appreciate you being bold enough to try to answer the question that no one else has.
 

So the 1st 8 games of 2002 overshadow the other 83% of games that he played in a Bills uniform? That’s the answer that you gave because the 2nd half of 2002 was terrible (you can see the splits above). I just don’t agree that 17% of his games should matter more than the other 83% (especially because none of that 17% was in the playoffs). 
 

Jamarcus Russell had INSANE arm talent. He was awful. To me, I care about what you ACTUALLY did, not what you COULD possibly do. The fact remains that Tyrod averaged more yards, TDs, wins, less turnovers and a higher completion percentage. 

Edited July 24, 2022 by Kirby Jackson

[That's No Moon]

On 7/19/2022 at 10:03 AM, extrahammer said:

After reading through the Tyrod legacy thread (really makes you love the offseason) I woke up this morning wanting to fight by ranking the top 3 quarterbacks for the Bills between the Post-Kelly era and before Josh arrived. Curious how each of you would rank the Bills quarterbacks between 1997-2017, here are your options:

 

Todd Collins

Doug Flutie

Rob Johnson (pro tip: this is not the answer) 

Alex Van Pelt

Drew Bledsoe

J.P. Losman 

Kelly Holcomb

Trent Edwards

Ryan Fitzpatrick

Brian Brohm

E.J. Manuel

Thad Lewis

Jeff Tuel

Kyle Orton

Tyrod Taylor

Matt Cassel

Nathaniel Peterman

 

Who are your top 3? 

 

Bledsoe, Flutie, and Fitz. Not necessarily in that order.

[BADOLBILZ]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

You are the one who says all the time - this should be fun - and I agree totally. There was nothing fun to me about watching Tyrod. Even in 2015. The two games over his 3 years I will genuinely say were fun were the 2015 opener over the Colts and the 2016 loss in Seattle where the comeback fell short at the end. The rest? It just wasn't fun to me at all. Tyrod was competent. I have never, ever disputed that. But I just hated his style of playing Quarterback. He held the ball for ***** ever even going back to 2015 and ran around behind the line and it just drove me to distraction. Honestly it was the least fun period of my fandom even though until that point it was as competitive as the team had been in my fandom. I hated the coach with a passion (Rex) and I found our Quarterback impossible to enjoy. For some people it is only ever about the winning. I have always thought if you are not enjoying watching your sports team then stop and do something else. 2016 is the closest I came to that. I found it less fun than Jauron and Trentative.

 

 

I of course agree about entertainment..........as I've said........Rick Dennison and that offense they put around Tyrod in 2017 was simply horrendous and though they actually made the playoffs that year that was one of the hardest seasons of the drought to watch if you care about good football.      

 

Disagree about 2015.......Tyrod was a lot of fun to watch that year.   Tyrod and Watkins tearing up that brash Jets D in the finale wasn't enjoyable why?  Because it kept Fitz out of the playoffs?  

 

2016 was brutal for the passing game,  but again, their receivers were banged up all season.   That home finale against Miami in 2016.....when Watkins and Woods were both healthy.......was a tremendous offensive performance by Tyrod complete with a last minute TD drive to take the lead in a huge game for the organization......it took a 13 seconds style defensive ending to end that season the way it did.  

 

So I can't get behind the "he was always unwatchable and only had a couple good games" narrative.    That feels like selective memory.

 

He deserved to be in the playoffs that season..........he deserved it in all 3 seasons, really.

 

It wasn't always fun to watch but his increasingly shy trigger was primarily the result of diminishing skill level of his weapons on offense more than it was his own notable limitations.   It wasn't the same as Trentative or Kelly Holcomb refusing to throw the ball when the team was not in any kind of contention.  

 

For all but a few games in Tyrod's Bills career he had his team in playoff contention.

 

By contrast, Fitz reputation for throwing games away for his team would have seemed absurd..........if it weren't so unbelievably true.

 

When you peel away the incredibly likable persona........he might have been the most selfish QB to ever start 100+ games in the NFL.

 

That's only entertaining if you remove any expectation of winning games and making the playoffs and are just there to watch him wing the ball around with a bushy beard and his wedding ring on.

 

Winning isn't the only part of the fun but it absolutely should still be a significant part of the fun equation.

 

 

Edited July 24, 2022 by BADOLBILZ

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

I of course agree about entertainment..........as I've said........Rick Dennison and that offense they put around Tyrod in 2017 was simply horrendous and though they actually made the playoffs that year that was one of the hardest seasons of the drought to watch if you care about good football.      

 

Disagree about 2015.......Tyrod was a lot of fun to watch that year.   Tyrod and Watkins tearing up that brash Jets D in the finale wasn't enjoyable why?  Because it kept Fitz out of the playoffs?  

 

2016 was brutal for the passing game,  but again, their receivers were banged up all season.   That home finale against Miami in 2016.....when Watkins and Woods were both healthy.......was a tremendous offensive performance by Tyrod complete with a last minute TD drive to take the lead in a huge game for the organization......it took a 13 seconds style defensive ending to end that season the way it did.  

 

So I can't get behind the "he was always unwatchable and only had a couple good games" narrative.    That feels like selective memory.

 

He deserved to be in the playoffs that season..........he deserved it in all 3 seasons, really.

 

It wasn't always fun to watch but his increasingly shy trigger was primarily the result of diminishing skill level of his weapons on offense more than it was his own notable limitations.   It wasn't the same as Trentative or Kelly Holcomb refusing to throw the ball when the team was not in any kind of contention.  

 

For all but a few games in Tyrod's Bills career he had his team in playoff contention.

 

By contrast, Fitz reputation for throwing games away for his team would have seemed absurd..........if it weren't so unbelievably true.

 

When you peel away the incredibly likable persona........he might have been the most selfish QB to ever start 100+ games in the NFL.

 

That's only entertaining if you remove any expectation of winning games and making the playoffs and are just there to watch him wing the ball around with a bushy beard and his wedding ring on.

 

Winning isn't the only part of the fun but it absolutely should still be a significant part of the fun equation.

 

 

 

I agree winning should be part of the equation. But watchability is a personal thing. Tyrod was mainly borderline unwatchable for me. Not because he wasn't capable but because I hated his way of playing the game.

 

Watching Tyrod playing Quarterback sucked the fun out of football for me especially in 2016. That is the closest I have ever got to switching the games off and doing something else because I didn't enjoy it at all. 

 

So while I appreciate what he did for the team, honestly if you gave me the choice of watching the Tyrod 8-8s or the Fitz 6-10s back again I'd take the Fitz 6-10s. 

[jlgarsh]

On 7/19/2022 at 10:16 AM, DrDawkinstein said:

Bledsoe, Flutie, Taylor.

 

Honorable Mentions: Fitz and Orton.

 

Dishonorable Mentions: Everyone else.

This would be my Immediate list as well. Other than these 5, can’t see a convincing case being made for any others really.