More Stadium Details Emerge

[SoCal Deek]

1 hour ago, QCity said:

 

If you're waiting to drink up the schadenfreude of regret from the outdoor crowd, I can tell you right now you are going to be very disappointed. In 5 years the only people crying about the lack of a dome will be the exact same people here today crying about the lack of a dome. Nobody who voted for an open-air stadium is going in with expectations of being completely protected from the elements. Everything I'm reading about the new stadium (aside from PSLs and the increased price) sounds incredible.

The dome or no dome discussion seems to have gone down a new cul-de-sac. I thought the original essence of it was to have the stadium (if funded by public referendum) (and probably if downtown) be available for year round events, thus getting more return on the investment. Now that it’s going in Orchard Park and the funding is secured, are there really that many people who still want it to be completely indoors? Really? Speaking as a once long time season ticket holder, but admittedly no longer living in WNY, I loved sitting outside and the experience would only be better if I wasn’t getting wet. I never minded the occasional snow…that was actually fun. 

[cd1]

34 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

The dome or no dome discussion seems to have gone down a new cul-de-sac. I thought the original essence of it was to have the stadium (if funded by public referendum) (and probably if downtown) be available for year round events, thus getting more return on the investment. Now that it’s going in Orchard Park and the funding is secured, are there really that many people who still want it to be completely indoors? Really? Speaking as a once long time season ticket holder, but admittedly no longer living in WNY, I loved sitting outside and the experience would only be better if I wasn’t getting wet. I never minded the occasional snow…that was actually fun. 

 

ME TOO - when I was younger.

 

Frankly, the stadium experience becomes too difficult for aging fans.

 

Cold, hard seats, bathrooms too far and lines too long, etc. That's why I for the last several years,  I'd get my fix going to training camp. But that seems to be a thing of the past too.

 

Well, at least geezers like me have our memories.

 

 

[SoCal Deek]

Just now, cd1 said:

 

ME TOO - when I was younger.

 

Frankly, the stadium experience becomes too difficult for aging fans.

 

Cold, hard seats, bathrooms too far and lines too long, etc. That's why I for the last several years,  I'd get my fix going to training camp. But that seems to be a thing of the past too.

 

Well, at least geezers like me have our memories.

 

 

Thanks....but nobody said going to NFL games was intended for 'geezers' like you and me.  We're supposed to be sitting at home, letting a new generation of hardy young fans develop their own memories.  With that said, when the new stadium provides you with indoor, plentiful restrooms, wide open concourses, and a covered seat, I'm guessing you're in-stadium experience will be extended by at least a year or two! (That is of course if you live to see the new place. 😉)

Go Bills

[Buffalo716]

6 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

The dome or no dome discussion seems to have gone down a new cul-de-sac. I thought the original essence of it was to have the stadium (if funded by public referendum) (and probably if downtown) be available for year round events, thus getting more return on the investment. Now that it’s going in Orchard Park and the funding is secured, are there really that many people who still want it to be completely indoors? Really? Speaking as a once long time season ticket holder, but admittedly no longer living in WNY, I loved sitting outside and the experience would only be better if I wasn’t getting wet. I never minded the occasional snow…that was actually fun. 

The bills have said since the beginning that they’re building a football stadium… NOT A multi-purpose event center

 

All of their studies indicated that football stadiums do not Create an uptick in the economy and benefits don’t outweigh cost

 

The new stadium according to their own studies will create as much economic impact as a new Target

 

Which is why I think They just decided on Orchard Park

 

Edited July 21, 2022 by Buffalo716

[f0neguy]

If they could host an occasional soccer or hockey game that would be enough for me.  Can they protect the grass field for concerts (Do they need to?)?

[SoCal Deek]

1 hour ago, Buffalo716 said:

The bills have said since the beginning that they’re building a football stadium… NOT A multi-purpose event center

 

All of their studies indicated that football stadiums do not Create an uptick in the economy and benefits don’t outweigh cost

 

The new stadium according to their own studies will create as much economic impact as a new Target

 

Which is why I think They just decided on Orchard Park

 

Thanks 716....but that's not the point I was making. The big dome proponents on here were trying to sell it as a multi-use venue. I think they just really wanted to sit inside. The only way that made any sense, if it ever did at all, was to put the stadium downtown.  Once that ship had sailed back down to Orchard Park, the dome discussion lost it's central mission statement.  I personally believe the new stadium will be fabulous, so long as it caters to the football fans that have always been the core of the Buffalo Bills faithful. It has to be a great place to watch a football game....period!

[Beast]

If they built a dome and every single Bills fan on this planet would be wishing for a snow game within two years.

[LabattBlue]

9 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

…I personally believe the new stadium will be fabulous, so long as it caters to the football fans that have always been the core of the Buffalo Bills faithful. It has to be a great place to watch a football game....period!

That is the $10,000 question.  How many of the faithful are going to stay STH in a stadium where tix will go up significantly, and toss on a PSL to boot.  Doesn’t sound like it will “cater” to many. 

[Dr. Who]

I've been watching some of the Euro championship for women's soccer. The football stadium at Brighton is sort of what I think would be a good pattern to follow, though it only seats a bit over 30K, so obviously, it's only a suggestion for a direction to go. 

 

https://www.football-stadiums.co.uk/grounds/england/falmer-stadium/

Edited July 21, 2022 by Dr. Who

[mrags]

On 7/20/2022 at 1:55 AM, Bubba Gump said:

 

I'll give you the short and sweet answer......None!!  The place sells out regularly now. The PSL is gonna make or break my decision to re-new. Being covered from the elements has nothing to do with my decision. 

I’m the opposite thinking of this. First of all, I think it’s false that the place sells out regularly. Maybe now is the key word there because of Allen. But I’ve been to rain games and cold games since then and maybe they are technically “sellouts” there’s plenty of seats that are open because people don’t show up. 
 

but I’m opposite because I currently pay about $1800 a year for my pair of seats in the end zone. I enjoy my seats but am also interested in seats like clubs where the views are better, it’s always warm, always dry, and always comfortable. Knowing the new stadium will have PSLs and will be more expensive for seats I am perfectly fine with it. Assuming I can stay dry, warm, comfortable. If a covered and heated seat in the upper deck, or mezzanine level (per bills season ticket emailed survey) has all that and is cheaper than current club seats (excluding PSL obviously) then it makes it worth it to me. 
 

ive already come to the realization that my yearly ticket bill will likely double. I’m ok with it but I’m not going to freeze my butt off or be a soaked mess in 45 degree windy days for those prices. Especially when I have one of the best TVs ever made and a really comfortable couch at home. 

[mrags]

1 hour ago, BTB said:

That is the $10,000 question.  How many of the faithful are going to stay STH in a stadium where tix will go up significantly, and toss on a PSL to boot.  Doesn’t sound like it will “cater” to many. 

This is the key. The prices increasing and PSLs are definitely going to price the young, drunk, Bills Mafia crowd out that everyone thinks is unwavering. The noise may actually be louder than the current stadium because of the way it’s going to be built (like in Seattle) but the crowd will be significantly different imo. Time will tell. Hope I’m wrong but I’d put money in it that I’m not 

[Estro]

9 minutes ago, mrags said:

I’m the opposite thinking of this. First of all, I think it’s false that the place sells out regularly. Maybe now is the key word there because of Allen. But I’ve been to rain games and cold games since then and maybe they are technically “sellouts” there’s plenty of seats that are open because people don’t show up. 
 

but I’m opposite because I currently pay about $1800 a year for my pair of seats in the end zone. I enjoy my seats but am also interested in seats like clubs where the views are better, it’s always warm, always dry, and always comfortable. Knowing the new stadium will have PSLs and will be more expensive for seats I am perfectly fine with it. Assuming I can stay dry, warm, comfortable. If a covered and heated seat in the upper deck, or mezzanine level (per bills season ticket emailed survey) has all that and is cheaper than current club seats (excluding PSL obviously) then it makes it worth it to me. 
 

ive already come to the realization that my yearly ticket bill will likely double. I’m ok with it but I’m not going to freeze my butt off or be a soaked mess in 45 degree windy days for those prices. Especially when I have one of the best TVs ever made and a really comfortable couch at home. 

You're 100% spot on. The OP has clearly never tried selling tickets to a Bills home game after Nov. Amazing seats regularly end up selling for less than $60 on resale sites. The demand, with a great team, for late season home games is extremely soft.

 

  I know because I'm a STH who lives 7 hours away in South Jersey. I usually make it up for 2-3 games and sell the rest. I get annihilated on those late season games. I even lost money on the playoff game vs the Pats.  Contrary to popular belief, most human beings despise sitting in 0-20 degree, windy games for 4 hours.

 

Add on the Bills trying to get 2-5k in PSLs per seat, and they're going to have a disaster on their hands.  I'll be the first to throw in towel on my 4 STs I've had since 2002, once the Bills come knocking for their 15-20k. I'm not plunking down that type of cash just to have the rights to continue paying my $5500 invoice each season. At some point you have to draw the line.

 

I'll still attend a couple games, but like most I'll be shopping on StubHub and picking my spots. I've lost enough $ doing it the other way around

 

 

[mrags]

2 minutes ago, Estro said:

You're 100% spot on. The OP has clearly never tried selling tickets to a Bills home game after Nov. Amazing seats regularly end up selling for less than $60 on resale sites. The demand, with a great team, for late season home games is extremely soft.

 

  I know because I'm a STH who lives 7 hours away in South Jersey. I usually make it up for 2-3 games and sell the rest. I get annihilated on those late season games. I even lost money on the playoff game vs the Pats.  Contrary to popular belief, most human beings despise sitting in 0-20 degree, windy games for 4 hours.

 

Add on the Bills trying to get 2-5k in PSLs per seat, and they're going to have a disaster on their hands.  I'll be the first to throw in towel on my 4 STs I've had since 2002, once the Bills come knocking for their 15-20k. I'm not plunking down that type of cash just to have the rights to continue paying my $5500 invoice each season. At some point you have to draw the line.

 

I'll still attend a couple games, but like most I'll be shopping on StubHub and picking my spots. I've lost enough $ doing it the other way around

 

 

This 100%. Resale on tickets is a false for sure. Maybe you get lucky a few times here and there but it’s mostly a loss. Especially late in the year. Especially once the weather turns to crap. 
 

I am perfectly fine paying the fees and PSLs and going to games. But I’m local and I attend almost every single game. I’ve maybe missed 5-10 games since 2006. It’s worth it for me. For you, I completely understand why you have seasons now, but also understand why you wouldn’t in a new stadium. You will lose money for sure. All for the benefit of going to 2-4 games a year. It would be cheaper for you to save your money and buy whatever games you want to attend separately on secondary sites each  year. 

[Estro]

Just now, mrags said:

This 100%. Resale on tickets is a false for sure. Maybe you get lucky a few times here and there but it’s mostly a loss. Especially late in the year. Especially once the weather turns to crap. 
 

I am perfectly fine paying the fees and PSLs and going to games. But I’m local and I attend almost every single game. I’ve maybe missed 5-10 games since 2006. It’s worth it for me. For you, I completely understand why you have seasons now, but also understand why you wouldn’t in a new stadium. You will lose money for sure. All for the benefit of going to 2-4 games a year. It would be cheaper for you to save your money and buy whatever games you want to attend separately on secondary sites each  year. 

Thats exactly right, and sadly what I'll have to do once the PSLs cone due. It jist won't make any financial sense for me anymore. A lot of it is pride in ownership. Being a STH for 20+ yrs is in some ways a feather in the cap, but PSLs is a racket I just can't support..

 

I'll still be there, but a 1-2 home games and maybe a road game is probably how I'll do it once I'm no longer a STH.

 

I'm just really eager to see how the Bills thread the needle of PSLs in Western NY.  I think a lot of people will bow out once they see their new invoices.

 

Take my 4 STs in section 134:

 

I believe I pay $5500 for the 4 tickets per year.

 

In the new stadium I'd predict that invoice to be closer to 8-10k, let's just say 8k yo be conservative. Add onto that a 5k per seat PSL , and they'll probably allow you to pay that off over a 5 year window. So you're looking at an 8k invoice + (20k ÷ 5 yrs) 4k = 12k per year for 5 years.

 

I dont think it's going to go over well, I really dont.

[BigDingus]

On 7/17/2022 at 1:18 PM, PromoTheRobot said:

I predict five years in they will want to add one.

 

Haven't been following it recently, but is this even a possibility? I would imagine it would have to be built with possible dome expansion/renovations in mind from the onset, but I have no idea.

 

It'd be nice knowing that in future, it could indeed be possible to cover it if need be.

[BigDingus]

On 7/17/2022 at 3:18 PM, Buffalo716 said:

I went back four seasons… The lowest attendance for any game in December or January … 60000… the snow bowl game 2017

 

I mean we didn’t win for 17 years.. I’m sure there were some games we brought in 50k

 

That’s not happening with Josh Allen

 

Ticket sales & attendance data can be deceiving though.

 

I think it was 2017, but I remember watching on TV when we were playing the Dolphins fighting for a playoff spot for the first time in nearly 2 decades, yet the stadium looked 1/4 empty...

 

A divisional rival was in town, one of the last few games of the season, chance to break the drought, yet it wasn't packed? I remember looking up attendance & seeing it said 100%, and replays showed mostly the filled out lower bowl or big plays where everyone was standing. But during the game when people were sitting, you could tell it was anything but sold out.

[clayboy54]

23 minutes ago, BigDingus said:

 

Haven't been following it recently, but is this even a possibility? I would imagine it would have to be built with possible dome expansion/renovations in mind from the onset, but I have no idea.

 

It'd be nice knowing that in future, it could indeed be possible to cover it if need be.

No need. Due to global warming, Orchard Park should be like Miami in a couple years.

[SoCal Deek]

I guess I’m showing my age. When I grew up in WNY the stadium was filled with actual football fans…not just people who went there to drink there own beer in a big parking lot. I’m hoping that the return of a consistent contender will help to lure the fans back. 

[Buffalo716]

1 hour ago, BigDingus said:

 

Ticket sales & attendance data can be deceiving though.

 

I think it was 2017, but I remember watching on TV when we were playing the Dolphins fighting for a playoff spot for the first time in nearly 2 decades, yet the stadium looked 1/4 empty...

 

A divisional rival was in town, one of the last few games of the season, chance to break the drought, yet it wasn't packed? I remember looking up attendance & seeing it said 100%, and replays showed mostly the filled out lower bowl or big plays where everyone was standing. But during the game when people were sitting, you could tell it was anything but sold out.

Are you talking about dolphins @ bills December 17, 2017?

[BobbyC81]

On 7/17/2022 at 1:13 PM, Maguire's Beer said:

There's more diversity to the anti-dome contingent than you're recognizing. To be sure, there are folks who like things just as they are, with 90% of the fans exposed to the full elements. But there's a decent number of folks who opposed a full dome due to cost concerns who still wanted seat coverage. Moreover, there are "domers" who were convinced that a full dome wouldn't be necessary by the team's hints about covering the seats.

 

IOW, there's a substantial number of fans who wanted/expected coverage. How many? I don't know. The team probably has a pretty good idea, tho, from the surveys - and I imagine that the final decision on the percentage of seats covered will be somewhat determined by the marketing data. If they think they can sell the place out at significantly increased prices without covering seats, they will. 

How are they talking about covering the seats that doesnt block the view of the seats behind?  Plexiglass?