The only Josh Allen Run That Needs to Go Away

[JESSEFEFFER]

We all want Josh protected better and sometimes he needs to be protected from himself.  Imo, of all the types of runs he makes, this is the most risky.  Remove this from the playbook, please. A zone read that he pulls from Moss with Joey Bosa standing there staring Josh down expecting him to keep it.  Wrapped around his waist like a little brother, Bosa manages to pull and spin Josh down while crushing on the back of his legs.  On QB power runs, draws, sneaks and scrambles Josh can see the defenders with time to react and can usually protect himself well.  This zone misread made my heart rate went go through the roof as I thought he'd suffered a lower leg injury much like Dak did.  I can't think of one worse than this.  Unblocked Joey Bosa standing there waiting for him with no time to react.  They should make this go away.  I think I am good with the rest.

 

Joey Bosa Hauling Josh Down

 

 

[947]

That play is just a regular old zone-read, most teams run it & doubtful it'll go away from our playbook.

 

Josh made the correct read by keeping it when Bosa crashed inside, but a few things went wrong. He's supposed to run further outside to ensure he beats the DE. Looks like he saw the LB waiting & stayed more inside, Bosa made a great recovery & got him. I'd also like to see the RB to run right at the crashing DE & try to block him once he knows the QB is keeping it, Moss ran right past Bosa & blocked nobody.

 

If Josh gets outside Bosa, he gets tackled by the LB but gets 2-3 yards. If Moss is able to slow Bosa down, Josh would've had 5 yards inside. If either of those things happen, no near-injury for Josh.

 

 

[Allen2D̶i̶g̶g̶s̶TBD]

Josh runs more when his receivers aren't getting consistent separation and he has no choice.

 

Hopefully Ken Dorsey does a better job of getting the running backs incorporated into the passing game to give Josh an outlet when there's nothing available downfield.

 

Josh is a dynamic runner, but we need to protect him because we are not a championship team with Case Keenum at qb.

[Matt_In_NH]

Personally I want him to run less in general but it truly is a cheat code.  His rushing yardage has been 600+, 500+, 400+ and then last year 700+.   I think in the three hundreds would be ideal for a year assuming they can compensate with more passing yards or more rushing yards from others.  I truly believe you will see a lot less called runs this year.

[machine gun kelly]

So the avg then is 550 yards per yr over

4 yrs.  Running is not going away and thankfully he’s protected better now than in 18 when he went out for four weeks.

 

The running into going away, but controlled to around 400-50 makes sense enough to keep defenses honest.

 

Whats surprising a few years ago before the leg injury of all people Alex Smith used to avg in some years around the 500 mark.  He also was a master at getting rid of the ball before hit.  The game manager comment was always negative but the guy kept moving the chains.  Allen will continue to be dynamic, but also know when to throw away.

[Alphadawg7]

53 minutes ago, JESSEFEFFER said:

We all want Josh protected better and sometimes he needs to be protected from himself.  Imo, of all the types of runs he makes, this is the most risky.  Remove this from the playbook, please. A zone read that he pulls from Moss with Joey Bosa standing there staring Josh down expecting him to keep it.  Wrapped around his waist like a little brother, Bosa manages to pull and spin Josh down while crushing on the back of his legs.  On QB power runs, draws, sneaks and scrambles Josh can see the defenders with time to react and can usually protect himself well.  This zone misread made my heart rate went go through the roof as I thought he'd suffered a lower leg injury much like Dak did.  I can't think of one worse than this.  Unblocked Joey Bosa standing there waiting for him with no time to react.  They should make this go away.  I think I am good with the rest.

 

Joey Bosa Hauling Josh Down

 

 

 

They need to remove all Josh runs designed for RB's essentially up the middle.  Far too often Daboll STUPIDLY called Allens number for power inside runs or draws up the middle off the snap, and not like 3rd and 1 type things, talking first down 2nd and long stuff.  

 

Josh is MOST effective running when taking off after nothing opens up down field or on some of the blocked sweeps outside.  His shortest YPC and where he takes the most damage are these stupid runs up the middle like he is a FB or something.  I mean its right into the beef of the defense and no one is cleared out even because its right off the snap.  

 

When Allen breaks big runs up the middle, its after he has dropped back to pass and saw an opening to take off where the middle is wide open and can get free then get down to avoid contact.  When its right off the snap, there is no avoiding contact and puts Josh at risk for injury or even a fumble.  

 

To be clear, I am not suggesting removing QB Sneaks, his conversion percentage makes this an almost guarantee when he runs it.  I mean I can only recall a couple times where he didn't convert and the only meaningful one being the Titans game where stupid Daboll tried to be tricky having Josh start in shotgun and move to the line where he didn't get his feet set and slipped.  

 

But  I PRAY these inside power runs off the snap and other dumb run calls left with Daboll.  For as good as Daboll could be at times, he could also be unbelievably stupid with things like this.  

Edited July 13, 2022 by Alphadawg7

[Gugny]

52 minutes ago, JESSEFEFFER said:

We all want Josh protected better and sometimes he needs to be protected from himself.  Imo, of all the types of runs he makes, this is the most risky.  Remove this from the playbook, please. A zone read that he pulls from Moss with Joey Bosa standing there staring Josh down expecting him to keep it.  Wrapped around his waist like a little brother, Bosa manages to pull and spin Josh down while crushing on the back of his legs.  On QB power runs, draws, sneaks and scrambles Josh can see the defenders with time to react and can usually protect himself well.  This zone misread made my heart rate went go through the roof as I thought he'd suffered a lower leg injury much like Dak did.  I can't think of one worse than this.  Unblocked Joey Bosa standing there waiting for him with no time to react.  They should make this go away.  I think I am good with the rest.

 

Joey Bosa Hauling Josh Down

 

 

 

So you're saying someone needs to take out Bosa.  I like it.

 

[machine gun kelly]

27 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

They need to remove all Josh runs designed for RB's essentially up the middle.  Far too often Daboll STUPIDLY called Allens number for power inside runs or draws up the middle off the snap, and not like 3rd and 1 type things, talking first down 2nd and long stuff.  

 

Josh is MOST effective running when taking off after nothing opens up down field or on some of the blocked sweeps outside.  His shortest YPC and where he takes the most damage are these stupid runs up the middle like he is a FB or something.  I mean its right into the beef of the defense and no one is cleared out even because its right off the snap.  

 

When Allen breaks big runs up the middle, its after he has dropped back to pass and saw an opening to take off where the middle is wide open and can get free then get down to avoid contact.  When its right off the snap, there is no avoiding contact and puts Josh at risk for injury or even a fumble.  

 

To be clear, I am not suggesting removing QB Sneaks, his conversion percentage makes this an almost guarantee when he runs it.  I mean I can only recall a couple times where he didn't convert and the only meaningful one being the Titans game where stupid Daboll tried to be tricky having Josh start in shotgun and move to the line where he didn't get his feet set and slipped.  

 

But  I PRAY these inside power runs off the snap and other dumb run calls left with Daboll.  For as good as Daboll could be at times, he could also be unbelievably stupid with things like this.  

Well written and as long as the sneaks are still in then I agree other creative runs and especially his ability to be mobile and make a decision when scrambling either there is a hole deeper to the WR, or left open for JA17 to take off and slide or run to the sidelines where he can avoid hits.  As long as he runs smart and remembers always live for another play, I’m fine with his running.  The crap up the middle needs to go to Devin.  Cook is now a weapon to the outside and was watching at the gym some stupid thing on ESPN (I know I always purport I hate them, but it was on so well). My point is they showed several Kamara clips and mostly his swing passes, etc.  if he could be 60% of Kamara wow would we be dynamic.

 

I am frothing at the mouth to think what we were and now add the Cook swing factor, and then changed up for 12 personnel with Knox and Howard for a small % of the time.  Neither of the last two options am i saying our bread and butter.  We still need Devin up the middle, and most importantly our 3 wide sets, with Knox and Devin where we can be most deadly.

Edited July 13, 2022 by machine gun kelly

[FireChans]

33 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

They need to remove all Josh runs designed for RB's essentially up the middle.  Far too often Daboll STUPIDLY called Allens number for power inside runs or draws up the middle off the snap, and not like 3rd and 1 type things, talking first down 2nd and long stuff.  

 

Josh is MOST effective running when taking off after nothing opens up down field or on some of the blocked sweeps outside.  His shortest YPC and where he takes the most damage are these stupid runs up the middle like he is a FB or something.  I mean its right into the beef of the defense and no one is cleared out even because its right off the snap.  

 

When Allen breaks big runs up the middle, its after he has dropped back to pass and saw an opening to take off where the middle is wide open and can get free then get down to avoid contact.  When its right off the snap, there is no avoiding contact and puts Josh at risk for injury or even a fumble.  

 

To be clear, I am not suggesting removing QB Sneaks, his conversion percentage makes this an almost guarantee when he runs it.  I mean I can only recall a couple times where he didn't convert and the only meaningful one being the Titans game where stupid Daboll tried to be tricky having Josh start in shotgun and move to the line where he didn't get his feet set and slipped.  

 

But  I PRAY these inside power runs off the snap and other dumb run calls left with Daboll.  For as good as Daboll could be at times, he could also be unbelievably stupid with things like this.  

Daboll getting blamed for Allen’s feet slipping is laugh out loud funny. 

[Alphadawg7]

8 hours ago, FireChans said:

Daboll getting blamed for Allen’s feet slipping is laugh out loud funny. 

Im not blaming it all on Daboll, but it was a stupid and unnecessary movement that fooled no one.  One of many examples where Daboll tries to be too creative in a critical moment instead of just running his best play.  
 

If you’re gonna sneak it there, get to the line and sneak it.  Don’t waste time moving Josh around and adding in the opportunity for him to not get his best push off the ball.  Watch him sneak it every other time and you can see the difference and why he never got his feet and balance set like he normally does when he just lines up right at the LOS and rams it down their throat.    

[1ManRaid]

40 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Im not blaming it all on Daboll, but it was a stupid and unnecessary movement that fooled no one.  One of many examples where Daboll tries to be too creative in a critical moment instead of just running his best play.  
 

If you’re gonna sneak it there, get to the line and sneak it.  Don’t waste time moving Josh around and adding in the opportunity for him to not get his best push off the ball.  Watch him sneak it every other time and you can see the difference and why he never got his feet and balance set like he normally does when he just lines up right at the LOS and rams it down their throat.    

 

It never works...

 

...except for when it does.  We've all seen those 4th and 1 plays where you know, I know, everyone and their blind dog knows they are just going to keep hard counting until the clock runs out trying to get the D to jump Offside.  And it sometimes actually works.  Just because it's unlikely to help, doesn't make it impossible.  Saying not to even try is like turning down a free lottery ticket.

[machine gun kelly]

2 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Im not blaming it all on Daboll, but it was a stupid and unnecessary movement that fooled no one.  One of many examples where Daboll tries to be too creative in a critical moment instead of just running his best play.  
 

If you’re gonna sneak it there, get to the line and sneak it.  Don’t waste time moving Josh around and adding in the opportunity for him to not get his best push off the ball.  Watch him sneak it every other time and you can see the difference and why he never got his feet and balance set like he normally does when he just lines up right at the LOS and rams it down their throat.    

Alpha, you and I are like the Borg

with a hive mind on this thread.  The reason why slow as heck Brady is so darn good at the sneak as he’d tell the OC to go to hell and wouldn’t do some Tom foolery tactic, but knows how to get small and low.  Morse if he knows what’s coming needs along with the Guards to bow up the defenders and like a wrestling move where you shoot on the legs get looowwwww.

 

Allen has demonstrated this tactic on more than one occasion so don’t mess

with what works.  So I guess on that one play Allen needs to grow in telling Daboll to pound salt and he’s going for it quick.  I think what we saw in Allen in the last quarter of the year and what reports have come out is he will in the future.

 

The bottom line for me is keep the run,  it just be smart about it.  If Devin can’t handle the load up the middle with maybe a sprinkle of 3rd and 1 with Moss as a bowling ball, and Cook to the outside then get more guys, but Allen is not the solution.

 

To ignore Allen as a scrambler, and some creative runs along with him running when the play breaks down is not going to change.  Like I said, around 400-450 per season or maybe a little more is doable.

[TBBills]

Nothing needs to go away. 

[LeGOATski]

That was painful to watch.

[FireChans]

2 hours ago, machine gun kelly said:

Alpha, you and I are like the Borg

with a hive mind on this thread.  The reason why slow as heck Brady is so darn good at the sneak as he’d tell the OC to go to hell and wouldn’t do some Tom foolery tactic, but knows how to get small and low.  Morse if he knows what’s coming needs along with the Guards to bow up the defenders and like a wrestling move where you shoot on the legs get looowwwww.

 

Allen has demonstrated this tactic on more than one occasion so don’t mess

with what works.  So I guess on that one play Allen needs to grow in telling Daboll to pound salt and he’s going for it quick.  I think what we saw in Allen in the last quarter of the year and what reports have come out is he will in the future.

 

The bottom line for me is keep the run,  it just be smart about it.  If Devin can’t handle the load up the middle with maybe a sprinkle of 3rd and 1 with Moss as a bowling ball, and Cook to the outside then get more guys, but Allen is not the solution.

 

To ignore Allen as a scrambler, and some creative runs along with him running when the play breaks down is not going to change.  Like I said, around 400-450 per season or maybe a little more is doable.

Lmao yes Daboll was such a bad OC that he was basically the hottest HC candidate the last two years.

 

you will be calling Dorsey a moron when a run play doesn’t go for 5 yards in about 6 months. See you then

[NewEra]

15 hours ago, FireChans said:

Daboll getting blamed for Allen’s feet slipping is laugh out loud funny. 

Allens feet slipping getting blamed for Dawkins getting steamrolled and landing on the back of his legs, causing him to slip + Feliciano doing his best matador impression simultaneously is even funnier.  He could’ve slipped and still gotten the first of his OL didn’t get dominated

 

https://twitter.com/NoFlagsFilm/status/1482032478185480199?s=20&t=jNIHhcNrTxQZKm4nvnvdhg

Edited July 14, 2022 by NewEra

[JESSEFEFFER]

There has been much discussion about Josh running less but there seems to be little consensus about which runs need to eliminated.  I really hated the zone read and the one I linked because Josh misread Bosa and did not react well to him.  He tried wide, then cutback and then a stiff arm but all failed and he was close to a season ending lower leg injury much like Dak Prescott suffered earlier that season.  After he kept the ball there was little time or space to make a good play and when he realized he was trapped, he had no way to protect himself. 

 

I'd be interested on the metrics for JA zone reads.  I remember one very good one in 2019 at Miami where he ran for like 35 yards as the DE was totally fooled.   But, this play I linked in the OP vs. the Chargers is the only one I remember where a season ending injury was in the mix.  Maybe, in their totality, they are the least successful and most risky.  Josh on an island with Bosa in his face who then steer wrestles him to the turf is as bad as it has gotten, imo.

[SCBills]

Re: Josh running.. 

 

Designed Josh runs should be reserved for "and goal" situations in the regular season only.  Then unleash him in the playoffs.

 

We signed Saffold, brought in Kromer, drafted YAC guys in Cook and Shakir.   Get him easy throws as an extension of the run game and then designate Moss/Singletary for short yardage stuff.  

 

With the talent on this team, there is zero reason that we should be running Allen on zone read keepers in the open field in Week 12. 

[DCofNC]

There should be zero called runs outside of the red zone.  There’s no need for it.  When it breaks down or if a team drops into a deep zone and the middle of the field is wide open, go get the yards.  Using Josh as  Mike Alstot has got to stop. 

[machine gun kelly]

5 hours ago, FireChans said:

Lmao yes Daboll was such a bad OC that he was basically the hottest HC candidate the last two years.

 

you will be calling Dorsey a moron when a run play doesn’t go for 5 yards in about 6 months. See you then

As usual Chans with you’re inflammatory persona, I said it was a bonehead move and Daboll tried to get too cute on THAT PLAY.  I did not indicate Daboll was not an excellent OC and was deserving of his HC position at the Giants.

 

This is you blowing a comment on ONE PLAY, and extrapolating to stating Daboll is a joke.  I’m also confident Dorsey will have his bumps in his first OC job, but happy it’s him where Allen feels comfortable with him.  I’m sure it’s all going to work out, and no I don’t freak out when a run play goes for five yards.  I’m not a reactionist.