Gabe Davis getting stronger

[eball]

On 7/17/2022 at 6:15 PM, ScottLaw said:

I would’ve preferred a WR in the first few rounds over RB and certainly LB. 

 

You didn't think a 3rd down pass-catching back with speed was a missing element to this offense?

 

They drafted a WR in the 4th.  Sorry they disappointed you by a round.

 

McKenzie can play outside; he showed it against the Pats***.  Crowder doesn't have to exclusively play in the slot.  We don't know what Shakir brings except for those short arms, but he's a tough receiver who fights to make contested catches.

 

It's not a "if Diggs or Davis go down get ready for TD Jesus" situation.

 

Ideally the Bills would be three-deep with starter quality at every position.  Shame on Beane.

 

 

[Not at the table Karlos]

20 minutes ago, eball said:

 

You didn't think a 3rd down pass-catching back with speed was a missing element to this offense?

 

They drafted a WR in the 4th.  Sorry they disappointed you by a round.

 

McKenzie can play outside; he showed it against the Pats***.  Crowder doesn't have to exclusively play in the slot.  We don't know what Shakir brings except for those short arms, but he's a tough receiver who fights to make contested catches.

 

It's not a "if Diggs or Davis go down get ready for TD Jesus" situation.

 

Ideally the Bills would be three-deep with starter quality at every position.  Shame on Beane.

 

 

Which game? He played in slot or in motion for a very large majority of his plays against the pats*"

Edited July 19, 2022 by Not at the table Karlos
Bolded too much

[eball]

5 minutes ago, Not at the table Karlos said:

Which game? He played in slot or in motion for a very large majority of his plays against the pats*"

If what you say is true then my mistake. I didn’t go back and watch, it just seemed his routes and catches in that game were not of the Beasley variety. 

[The Dean]

On 7/17/2022 at 6:15 PM, ScottLaw said:

I would’ve preferred a WR in the first few rounds over RB and certainly LB. 

 

 

So what you are saying (even if you didn't realize it) is you would have preferred Beane abandon the board and the teams' evaluations on prospects, and draft a player they didn't have highly enough ranked at that spot in the draft. As you know, Beane loves to trade too.  So even if they didn't like a WR at that draft position, had they been eyeing a WR they liked there they might have traded down---if the deal was right.

 

So what did you want the Bills to do. Ignore their player evaluation?  Good thing you will never be a GM.

Edited July 19, 2022 by The Dean

[eball]

2 hours ago, Not at the table Karlos said:

Which game? He played in slot or in motion for a very large majority of his plays against the pats*"

 

Hey, so I did my homework and watched McKenzie's catches against the Pats and where he was lined up.  He was in the slot a bunch, and also in motion.  He was lined up as the outside receiver in the formation a few times.  But the motion part is what leads me to believe the Bills can scheme things up if either Diggs or Davis miss any significant time.  Anyway, we'll just have to wait and see I guess.

 

[Not at the table Karlos]

1 minute ago, eball said:

 

Hey, so I did my homework and watched McKenzie's catches against the Pats and where he was lined up.  He was in the slot a bunch, and also in motion.  He was lined up as the outside receiver in the formation a few times.  But the motion part is what leads me to believe the Bills can scheme things up if either Diggs or Davis miss any significant time.  Anyway, we'll just have to wait and see I guess.

 

I agree. 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

4 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Cinci fans don't have to worry.........Tyler Boyd has averaged 935 yards receiving the past 4 seasons and didn't drop a single pass all regular season on his way to 828 yards as their 3rd receiver option.

 

You couldn't have made a worse choice to make an example of.   Shows how much you follow the NFL.  

Not at all. Who replaces Boyd in the slot? Come on man. 

Edited July 19, 2022 by Buffalo_Stampede

[TBBills]

1 minute ago, ScottLaw said:

No, what I’m giving you is my opinion… because it’s a message board… and let’s not act like Beane has a keen eye for RBs… I mean the guy has already used three top draft picks at the position in three years…. I wish they’d put as much value on WRs as they have the RB position…. As @BADOLBILZhad pointed out, they’ve gotten away from valuing the WR position the last couple years.

 

As I’ve stated before, if Diggs/Davis get hurt or Davis doesn’t live up to expectations I expect the Bills will be in the market for a starting WR because their WR group will run into some issues.

That is the story of just about every team.

[C.Biscuit97]

Hopefully, he doesn’t show up like David Boston.

 

the hype train is big time for Davis. Love that he never seems worked up one way or another. 

[TBBills]

13 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Not every team has journeyman scrub Jake Kumerow as it’s back up outside WR.😅

Yea most have a worse option.

Edited July 19, 2022 by TBBills

[The Dean]

4 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

No, what I’m giving you is my opinion… because it’s a message board… and let’s not act like Beane has a keen eye for RBs… I mean the guy has already used three top draft picks at the position in three years…. I wish they’d put as much value on WRs as they have the RB position…. As @BADOLBILZhad pointed out, they’ve gotten away from valuing the WR position the last couple years.

 

As I’ve stated before, if Diggs/Davis get hurt or Davis doesn’t live up to expectations I expect the Bills will be in the market for a starting WR because their WR group will run into some issues.

 

Name a name, then. Who should they have picked and in what round?  Saying "they should have picked a WR" without a name and round is an opinion, I suppose. But it's an opinion with no teeth.  They DID pick a WR. They picked a WR they thought was among the best in the draft. Who cares what round they got him in, IF they are correct about him? 

 

3 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Not every team has journeyman scrub Jake Kumerow as it’s back up outside WR.😅

 

Except Kumerow isn't THE backup outside WR. He's A backup WR.  Most teams have at least one far worse than him.

 

 

[Hermes]

7 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

A 2nd round picks worth? No I don’t. 
 

I’d much rather that pick be for a potential stud outside WR. 
 

If either Diggs or Davis are out or struggling for an extended period of time I have no doubt they’ll bring someone in because I’d be willing to bet separation and YAC becomes an issue.
 

Shakir was a 5th rounder.

 

The way the Bills operate organizationally, unless a true first round talent was sitting there, that pick wasn't going to be a receiver. It undermines the faith they're putting in Davis. Sink or swim he's their guy. Plus grabbing Cook gives another dynamic to the offense that wasn't there before. 

 

Let's say this year nobody steps up and Davis is having a solid yet otherwise unspectacular season. I'm sure the Bills brass is going to be looking very hard for an upgrade to the WR core during the year. They've been willing to make mid season trades before so why not again.

 

Ideally they are looking to see if it's going to be worth extending Davis this year and then drafting Diggs eventually replacement and WR3 in the early rounds in next year's draft.  It gives you the potential to have the big contracts for these 3 WRs on a rotation and keep the cupboard stocked for Allen for the foreseeable future. 

 

Every decision this organization makes is looking multiple years down the road so they can compete every year. Not just this year

 

 

6 hours ago, The Dean said:

 

 

So what you are saying (even if you didn't realize it) is you would have preferred Beane abandon the board and the teams' evaluations on prospects, and draft a player they didn't have highly enough ranked at that spot in the draft. As you know, Beane loves to trade too.  So even if they didn't like a WR at that draft position, had they been eyeing a WR they liked there they might have traded down---if the deal was right.

 

So what did you want the Bills to do. Ignore their player evaluation?  Good thing you will never be a GM.

 

Teams often have very similarly graded players available when it's their turn to pick.  What he's suggesting is that the Bills take one of the similarly graded WRs instead of Cook. I personally was hoping they'd have drafted a receiver earlier than they did. Who's to say they even had Cook rated as highly as he was picked?

 

To suggest it's ignoring the player evaluation would be incorrect .Ignoring player evaluation would be to draft solely based off of the grade you have and not how they can contribute to the team. 

 

Would you draft a punter who you graded as a second round talent over a DT who's rated as an early third?  Unless there's truly an outlier sticking out on your board it's all subject to who's going to work best for your team. 

[The Dean]

23 minutes ago, Hermes said:

Teams often have very similarly graded players available when it's their turn to pick.  What he's suggesting is that the Bills take one of the similarly graded WRs instead of Cook. I personally was hoping they'd have drafted a receiver earlier than they did. Who's to say they even had Cook rated as highly as he was picked?

 

To suggest it's ignoring the player evaluation would be incorrect .Ignoring player evaluation would be to draft solely based off of the grade you have and not how they can contribute to the team. 

 

Would you draft a punter who you graded as a second round talent over a DT who's rated as an early third?  Unless there's truly an outlier sticking out on your board it's all subject to who's going to work best for your team. 

 

 

First of all, you think Beane drafted someone in the second round when he had another player rated higher? Really?  I can see if that player was a DB, since he took Elam in the first round. But we see that doesn't even necessarily hold, by looking at last year's draft. 

 

But I think we disagree on how the board is built to begin with. I believe it is built WITH team needs in mind. Putting aside this year, as it was a week QB class, do you think the Bills would have had ANY QBs on their board in the first few rounds?  Why would they when they KNOW they have no interest in drafting one?

 

When drafting don't you think they consider whether the players style, strengths and weaknesses, character, personality mesh with this team as currently constructed?   This isn't a rebuild where the GM is simply looking for talent, when they don't necessarily know if the head coach will even be with the team in a year or two.  This is an established team with a terrific roster (I think some don't take that into consideration) and a HC who isn't going anywhere.  They are looking for (and I believe grading) players who fit THIS team. Not some hypothetical team. A very highly regarded MLB thumper who might rank high on many teams boards, might be much much lower on the Bills' board. Understand where I'm coming from?

Edited July 19, 2022 by The Dean

[Hermes]

1 hour ago, The Dean said:

 

 

First of all, you think Beane drafted someone in the second round when he had another player rated higher? Really?  I can see if that player was a DB, since he took Elam in the first round. But we see that doesn't even necessarily hold, by looking at last year's draft. 

 

But I think we disagree on how the board is built to begin with. I believe it is built WITH team needs in mind. Putting aside this year, as it was a week QB class, do you think the Bills would have had ANY QBs on their board in the first few rounds?  Why would they when they KNOW they have no interest in drafting one?

 

When drafting don't you think they consider whether the players style, strengths and weaknesses, character, personality mesh with this team as currently constructed?   This isn't a rebuild where the GM is simply looking for talent, when they don't necessarily know if the head coach will even be with the team in a year or two.  This is an established team with a terrific roster (I think some don't take that into consideration) and a HC who isn't going anywhere.  They are looking for (and I believe grading) players who fit THIS team. Not some hypothetical team. A very highly regarded MLB thumper who might rank high on many teams boards, might be much much lower on the Bills' board. Understand where I'm coming from?

 

To your first point. I can't say he had anyone graded higher, although he probably had others in the same ranked grouping.  He may very well have had a player 'graded' slightly higher but was in the same grouping and in a deeper position so he picked Cook. There's too many factors the we don't know to come to that conclusion. However, I think it's far to say that he could have.

 

I do believe the Bills would've drafted a QB if one of them dropped far enough. They aren't going to reach for a QB but they would be stupid not to draft one because they have Allen. Having a highly touted backup to the most important position on the field, that in no way threatens his standing with the team, is cost controlled for 4 years, and you can potentially trade for picks if he fills in and balls out is not a bad thing.

 

(This thread has diverged to the concern of of outside WR depth, why not have the same concern for QB)

 

Although your point about how the board is built is interesting. I understand ranking players based off of cumulative input from everyone involved, however you're talking about absolute rankings (i.e. player A is ranked higher than player B, so we'll always draft player A regardless of position). Whereas I believe there's a spectrum (players A,B,C, and D are all grouped together, so even though they play different positions they're all viable options).  

 

I do understand where you're coming from in regards to player grades and evaluations, I just disagree that the absolute nature you're suggesting, is how things go when the team is on the clock.

 

(Even drafting Rousseau in the first they knew Hughes, and Addison were likely on their last legs. Therefore a DE was still a need, hence Basham)

 

Edited July 19, 2022 by Hermes

[Hermes]

16 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Realistically from where the Bills were sitting in the first two rounds I wanted Pickens or Moore and certainly would’ve traded down or traded up in the 2nd to take one of them…. But they were all in on CB in round 1 since February… honestly don’t think WR was even high on their radar within the first few rounds….

 

Behind Diggs and a less proven Davis on the outside they have NOBODY…. But this point seems to be ignored or shrugged off….good thing is they have Josh Allen to carry the offensive load again when the receivers can’t get open or the offensive line is getting bludgeoned…. Just hope McD doesn’t get too run happy and take the ball out of the best players hands until late in the game when they need him to bail them out as always. 👍🏻

 

I get Pickens, but Moore projects more as a slot receiver if I'm not mistaken. So had we drafted him Kumerow still would've been the defacto WR3  (which is hilarious)

 

Do you think Pickens will have more total yards and tds than Cook this year? That's the big question. 

[The Dean]

2 hours ago, Hermes said:

 

To your first point. I can't say he had anyone graded higher, although he probably had others in the same ranked grouping.  He may very well have had a player 'graded' slightly higher but was in the same grouping and in a deeper position so he picked Cook. There's too many factors the we don't know to come to that conclusion. However, I think it's far to say that he could have.

 

I do believe the Bills would've drafted a QB if one of them dropped far enough. They aren't going to reach for a QB but they would be stupid not to draft one because they have Allen. Having a highly touted backup to the most important position on the field, that in no way threatens his standing with the team, is cost controlled for 4 years, and you can potentially trade for picks if he fills in and balls out is not a bad thing.

 

(This thread has diverged to the concern of of outside WR depth, why not have the same concern for QB)

 

Although your point about how the board is built is interesting. I understand ranking players based off of cumulative input from everyone involved, however you're talking about absolute rankings (i.e. player A is ranked higher than player B, so we'll always draft player A regardless of position). Whereas I believe there's a spectrum (players A,B,C, and D are all grouped together, so even though they play different positions they're all viable options).  

 

I do understand where you're coming from in regards to player grades and evaluations, I just disagree that the absolute nature you're suggesting, is how things go when the team is on the clock.

 

(Even drafting Rousseau in the first they knew Hughes, and Addison were likely on their last legs. Therefore a DE was still a need, hence Basham)

 

 

2 hours ago, Hermes said:

 

I get Pickens, but Moore projects more as a slot receiver if I'm not mistaken. So had we drafted him Kumerow still would've been the defacto WR3  (which is hilarious)

 

Do you think Pickens will have more total yards and tds than Cook this year? That's the big question. 

 

 

Fair enough. But maybe Beane didn't think anyone available when they selected was likely to be the #1 backup at outside WR as a rookie. IMO McDermott is more likely to go to someone who's been around for awhile, or at least is a proven pro, if he needs to make a mid-season change. That seems to be their MO. So I could see Hodgins be the guy for example. But I also don't think them picking up a veteran WR before the season starts is out of the question. I'd say the same thing about CB.  So far they've been VERY good at this. I won't start doubting or second guessing them now, given their results to date.

 

I think once they get going in training camp, they'll get a handle on what they need.

[BADOLBILZ]

10 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Not at all. Who replaces Boyd in the slot? Come on man. 

 

 

Cole Beasley?

 

Tavon Austin?

 

It's the slot.........they are dime-a-dozen............the Bengals don't need a 6'2" dynamic outside talent like Boyd playing in the slot they just can't keep a 1,000 yard receiver type like that on the bench.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

9 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Cole Beasley?

 

Tavon Austin?

 

It's the slot.........they are dime-a-dozen............the Bengals don't need a 6'2" dynamic outside talent like Boyd playing in the slot they just can't keep a 1,000 yard receiver type like that on the bench.

Beasley and Austin are equal in your opinion? I can’t really agree with that statement. The Bengals are one the heaviest 3+ WR set offenses in the NFL. 1 injury would definitely disrupt their offense similar to the Bills. They run 3+ WRs 80% of the time. So lack of depth after their top 3 will affect them if injuries happen. 

That said I’m still waiting to hear a plan instead of complaining. Are there players the Bills should’ve signed or drafted? Are there free agents available now the Bills should sign? Let’s stop debating about hypothetical injuries and start talking about how do we avoid a possible problem.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 20, 2022 by Buffalo_Stampede