PFT - Leslie Frazier: It’s discouraging I haven’t had another chance to be a head coach

[NoHuddleKelly12]

6 hours ago, vtnatefootball11 said:

 

Bill Belichick and Marv Levy had losing records their first go around as head coach, did their records lie? 

[billsbackto81]

7 hours ago, Gobills14094 said:

He's 21-32 as a head coach. That record doesn't lie.

Bill Belicheck was 20-28 his first 3 years as a HC.

 

Jimmy Johnson was 19-29 his first 3 years. 

 

Though I feel he wouldn't succeed as a HC if given another shot I do believe he is a decent DC.

 

 

[Trock]

13 seconds. Lucky he wasn’t fired, he will never get another hc opportunity. 

[NewEra]

Very good person, football mind and DC.  Unfortunately his age + his past record as a HC will likely keep him from getting another job.  I wouldn’t hire him if I were a GM based on those 2 things alone.  

[Aussie Joe]

He seems like a good guy…

 

But if McD gets hit by a bus tomorrow, does anyone want Frazier as the new head coach of the Bills?
 

No… I didn’t think so..

[Dr.Mantis_Toboggan]

13 seconds doesn’t happen and he likely has that opportunity somewhere right now, especially if Buffalo went on to win the Super Bowl like I’m almost certain they would’ve with the pace Josh was on…

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, billsbackto81 said:

Bill Belicheck was 20-28 his first 3 years as a HC.

 

Jimmy Johnson was 19-29 his first 3 years. 

 

Though I feel he wouldn't succeed as a HC if given another shot I do believe he is a decent DC.

 

 

 

 

This gets rehashed a lot.  BB took a 3 win team to 6, 7, and 11 wins and a playoff appearance.  At some point, Vinny Testaverde as your top QB runs out of steam...

 

In 2 of Frazier's 3 full seasons in Minny, his teams had the worst D in the league re; giving up points.

[billsbackto81]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

This gets rehashed a lot.  BB took a 3 win team to 6, 7, and 11 wins and a playoff appearance.  At some point, Vinny Testaverde as your top QB runs out of steam...

 

In 2 of Frazier's 3 full seasons in Minny, his teams had the worst D in the league re; giving up points.

Not saying you're wrong.  A lot of coaches have poor starts before they can right the ship. I'm just saying a poor start to a past coaching career shouldn't be the standard or determining factor on whether a candidate should get another HC gig or not. Like many you learn from mistakes, right? Frazier may have had a 💩 hand dealt to him in Minny but I've seen enough to believe he wouldn't succeed if given the opportunity again.

 

JMHO. Of course I could be wrong.

Edited July 8, 2022 by billsbackto81

[boater]

I wonder.... does he just interview poorly? If so, I can relate, my interviews are a house of horrors.

[vincec]

3 hours ago, billsbackto81 said:

Bill Belicheck was 20-28 his first 3 years as a HC.

 

Jimmy Johnson was 19-29 his first 3 years. 

 

Though I feel he wouldn't succeed as a HC if given another shot I do believe he is a decent DC.

 

 

Jimmy Johnson? You’re seriously reaching.

[billsbackto81]

6 minutes ago, vincec said:

Jimmy Johnson? You’re seriously reaching.

The man went 1-15 his first season.

 

19 wins in his first 48 games as a HC then goes on to win 2 consecutive championships.

 

How is that reaching?

 

[AlCowlingsTaxiService]

Perhaps he should pick up the book “The Peter Principle” …. That would explain it

[vincec]

7 minutes ago, billsbackto81 said:

The man went 1-15 his first season.

 

19 wins in his first 48 games as a HC then goes on to win 2 consecutive championships.

 

How is that reaching?

 

They guy took over a terrible Cowboys team and by his third season had them in the playoffs, got them a playoff win, and a regular season win over the Super Bowl champion Redskins. There was never any question that had turned the Cowboys around by the end of his second season let alone after 48 games. To imply that the jury was still out on him after three seasons is reaching.

[ganesh]

11 hours ago, Gobills14094 said:

He's 21-32 as a head coach. That record doesn't lie.

However,  people like Doug Marrone still got 2nd jobs (Pretty quickly) with such putrid win/losses.

His record was 

Buffalo -  15-17.  and immediately got the JAX job.

Went 23-43 in 4 seasons at JAX. (He was given four seasons for being mediocre).

 

Worst was that Doug was neither good in offense nor defense.

 

On the flip side,  Greg Williams went 17-31 in his four seasons in Buffalo; but never got to be HC again other than an interim stint in Cleveland.

Edited July 9, 2022 by ganesh

[billsbackto81]

2 hours ago, vincec said:

They guy took over a terrible Cowboys team and by his third season had them in the playoffs, got them a playoff win, and a regular season win over the Super Bowl champion Redskins. There was never any question that had turned the Cowboys around by the end of his second season let alone after 48 games. To imply that the jury was still out on him after three seasons is reaching.

All I'm implying is that coaches with mediocre records after 3 seasons still can go on to have tremendous success. I just don't believe Frazier is one of them.  In Johnson's case the record is a bit skewed because of the 1-15. We all personally know what they went on to be after that.😪😪

[BarleyNY]

23 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I think that it’s tough to inspire a fan base with the hiring of a 63 year-old DC. I hate to say it like that because Frazier has earned the opportunity. Typically bad teams are looking for “who’s next.” They want the next McVay. They continue to hire, young, creative, offensive minds. The market is narrow for Leslie Frazier. He needs a situation like Jacksonville that was a total disaster and needs an adult in the room to stabilize. I suppose if the Browns blow up this year he might be an option?  I guess that Lovie Smith was an exception to this but those situations are few and far between. I just don’t see, for example, the Jets turning that group over to LF if things don’t work out here. It will be “the next young offensive mind.”

I agree.  63 and a DC who is under a HC who was a DC.  You can’t even know how much of the success on that side of the ball is him versus McDermott.  That’s a tough sell even for a coordinator who is on the “right” side of the ball, and he’s not.  

[Kirby Jackson]

59 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

I agree.  63 and a DC who is under a HC who was a DC.  You can’t even know how much of the success on that side of the ball is him versus McDermott.  That’s a tough sell even for a coordinator who is on the “right” side of the ball, and he’s not.  

I equate it to when the Broncos hired Vic Fangio. There weren’t any Broncos fans that were like, “yes, we got Vic Fangio!!! Watch out world!!”

Edited July 9, 2022 by Kirby Jackson

[Mr. WEO]

15 hours ago, billsbackto81 said:

Not saying you're wrong.  A lot of coaches have poor starts before they can right the ship. I'm just saying a poor start to a past coaching career shouldn't be the standard or determining factor on whether a candidate should get another HC gig or not. Like many you learn from mistakes, right? Frazier may have had a 💩 hand dealt to him in Minny but I've seen enough to believe he wouldn't succeed if given the opportunity again.

 

JMHO. Of course I could be wrong.

 

 

BB was credited much for the Giants success in SB 25.  Before Minny, Frazier had a fairly undistinguished career as an assistant on a few teams.  He was fired from each of  his 2 Coordinator jobs in Cincy and Tampa after 2 seasons.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

27 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

BB was credited much for the Giants success in SB 25.  Before Minny, Frazier had a fairly undistinguished career as an assistant on a few teams.  He was fired from each of  his 2 Coordinator jobs in Cincy and Tampa after 2 seasons.

And by my recollection he has had play calling duties taken away at least twice by McDermott. 

Nice guy but not someone I would hire as HC.

There are far worse retread hires that have been made though. Mostly failed white guys like Marrone, Jauron,  Mularkey, Whisenhunt, McDaniels, Ryan, Mangini, and McCarthy that have gotten second chances.  Frazier has as good or bad of a record as this horrible list of retreads.

 

Edited July 9, 2022 by Ethan in Portland

[GaryPinC]

42 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

And by my recollection he has had play calling duties taken away at least twice by McDermott. 

Nice guy but not someone I would hire as HC.

There are far worse retread hires that have been made though. Mostly failed white guys like Marrone, Jauron,  Mularkey, Whisenhunt, McDaniels, Ryan, Mangini, and McCarthy that have gotten second chances.  Frazier has as good or bad of a record as this horrible list of retreads.

 

Yep, part of Frazier being too nice = not enough passion, aggression, fire and goal driven to be successful.  And now his age also works against him.  Think about McDermott and how in his first two years how cautious he was on offense and how much it's changed since then.  Nice guy, but fiery, concise, and goal driven.  Frazier's hit his ceiling, those in the league that don't see it, McD and the Pegula's trying to lobby him a HC job after last season sealed it.