PFT - Leslie Frazier: It’s discouraging I haven’t had another chance to be a head coach

[Greg S]

[Brand J]

I was hoping he’d get hired away so we could bring in Vic Fangio.

[benderbender]

On 2/8/2022 at 9:34 AM, benderbender said:

If they won the Chiefs game and completely laid an egg in the AFCCG, Frazier still would have gotten a HC job.

 

13 seconds was the high school equivalent of farting in gym class and then running for class president. He was only going to get pity votes.

It was the worst case scenario for him. He had two interviews with Chicago. It would have been a great homecoming for him. Coming back to the city he won a Super Bowl with to turn the franchise around. He would have been the modern Mike Ditka without the sweaters.

[Buftex]

3 hours ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

Our defense has been pretty good since he’s been here and he’s one of us so i don’t want to just go all in here…but why would he get hired again as a head coach? He’d be an old retread that runs a soft shell zone, zero aggression, no fire, stands there like a wax figure and was a bad head coach the first time? Now he’s the DC of a loaded team with a defensive minded head coach that is no doubt pulling the strings. Almost every good QB has all day to just get comfortable and make throws. Thankfully our cover guys are excellent. That covers up a lot. I hate his conservative play calling and often wish McDermott would just completely take over this defense.
 

We could definitely do worse, don’t get me wrong. It’s not as if the guy is bad or anything….but why would you hire this guy as a HC? He seems like a great guy and he’s performing pretty well in his current role. But good coordinators are sometimes just that. He got a chance and pretty much showed why it’s not worth it. 

I get what you are saying...but he isn't a "retread", because he never got a second chance.  Lovie Smith is a retread... he may be the only one in the league, right now...guys who have had multiple head coaching jobs, who never really won anything.  As you said, virtually every other coach in the league right now (I think) is either a first timer, or has a Super Bowl win on their resume.  

 

It's not so surprising to me that Frazier didn't get a second chance in the last few years, because as you said, older defensive minded coaches are not in vouge right now...but there have certainly been many less  qualified guys who have been hired over the years since Frazier was let go in Minnesota.

[Rubes]

2 hours ago, Gobills14094 said:

He's 21-32 as a head coach. That record doesn't lie.

 

Yeah, a winning percentage (39%) that's not very different from Belichick's with Cleveland (36-44; 45%). But Frazier is older than Belichick was at the time, I guess.

 

[GunnerBill]

4 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I think that it’s tough to inspire a fan base with the hiring of a 63 year-old DC. I hate to say it like that because Frazier has earned the opportunity. Typically bad teams are looking for “who’s next.” They want the next McVay. They continue to hire, young, creative, offensive minds. The market is narrow for Leslie Frazier. He needs a situation like Jacksonville that was a total disaster and needs an adult in the room to stabilize. I suppose if the Browns blow up this year he might be an option?  I guess that Lovie Smith was an exception to this but those situations are few and far between. I just don’t see, for example, the Jets turning that group over to LF if things don’t work out here. It will be “the next young offensive mind.”

 

Agree. A 63 year old, defensive, retread with a low-key laid back personality is hard to sell a fanbase on. 

 

There are poorer coaches than Leslie Frazier who have and have had HC jobs in the last 5 years, but at the same time I understamd why he hasn't. 

[Mr. WEO]

Frazier has some delusions and self-assessment deficits....

[TheWeatherMan]

4 hours ago, Doc said:

The end of the Chiefs game did him in. 

Fact 

[SCBills]

I thought he’d make a good HC for a team in disarray that needs a good man to steer the ship.  

 

Unfortunately for Frazier, that’s tough to sell to the fanbase. 
 

It’s also tough to sell a defense that’s tops statistically, but never really flashed, and when given the chance to step up.. didn’t.

 

In fact, did the opposite.  They choked. 
 

That said..  This may be his best audition year ever.   He has, on paper, an absolutely filthy defense on a team with plenty of publicity, prime time games and Super Bowl aspirations. 
 

We may not be the #1 Defense again - simply due to SOS, but this is a Defense that could bring the sizzle our previous defenses did not have.  
 

If Rousseau, Oliver and Edmunds make any kind of jump this year… I don’t see a better defense.  Every single position has an above average to elite level talent, with rotational depth on top of it.  
 

The DL is young and/or under contract for a few years, White/Elam/Johnson/Jackson as well.. but who knows what the future holds for Poyer, Hyde, Edmunds and/or Milano.. 
 

If you want one last shot at a HC gig, Leslie… go get it.  This is your year. 

[TheBrownBear]

2 hours ago, vtnatefootball11 said:

 

Bill Belichick and Marv Levy had losing records their first go around as head coach, did their records lie? 

The Bills were in dire straits and desperate when they turned to Marv, so that's a bit of an outlier (see also, Chan Gailey, Dick Jauron, hmmmnnn seems to be a Buffalo thing).  

 

Belichick was considered a great defensive mind with far better qualifications than Frazier when he got his second chance.  Oh, and he was only 48 years old when the Pats hired him.  Frazier is 63.  No one (not named the Houston Texans) is hiring a 63 year old defensive retread these days. 

 

It is what it is.  Frazier, like most good coordinators, had his one shot as a head coach with the Vikings and failed.  

[JakeFrommStateFarm]

5 hours ago, Doc said:

The end of the Chiefs game did him in. 

Someone had to fall on the sword for McDs screw-up 

[Doc]

44 minutes ago, JakeFrommStateFarm said:

Someone had to fall on the sword for McDs screw-up 

 

I would be willing to bet money McD let Frazier make the calls.  

Edited July 8, 2022 by Doc

[Doc]

3 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Yes… because McD sat there with his hands in his pockets with no input after calling TOs before both chunk plays to get the Chiefs in FG position. 
 

Some people can’t admit McD ***** up.

 

He at least ***** up by letting Frazier call the 2nd play.  

[Ethan in Cleveland]

Maybe GM's have better insight and can get more facts than we do.  But it would seem hard to evaluate a guy like Frazier when all he is doing is running McD's defense.  Same for Bienemy. Now we have seen many OC's hired as HC that worked under a HC that was previously an OC.  The Bill Walsh tree of the past and now the McVay tree currently.  Belichick had several defensive disciples with at best mixed results.  Pete Carroll had had three former defensive coaches get HC jobs in Gus Bradley, Robert Saleh(was not a DC with Seattle), and Dan Quinn.  Two of the three were busts as HC's and one is TBD.

 

[Kirby Jackson]

3 hours ago, Doc said:

 

I think that if he were to go to a team with a stud QB, he'd be fine.  Hiring these offensive minds is mostly to manufacture offense without an elite QB.

I think that’s fair. The flip side is that teams with stud QBs aren’t usually the ones replacing their HC. It’s a little “chicken and egg.” Maybe a situation like the Chargers, if they underachieve would be possible? The point remains though, if there are 6 or 7 jobs he’s probably only a realistic candidate for 1 or 2. Someone like Daboll would be considered in pretty much every situation. 

Edited July 8, 2022 by Kirby Jackson

[Doc]

7 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Do you really think McD had no knowledge of what was called? 

 

Obviously he had knowledge.  

[Allen2D̶i̶g̶g̶s̶TBD]

Once a coordinator gets to a certain age, they miss their window to become a head coach again because their hiring won't excite a fanbase. Defensive coordinators fall into the category of guys like Romeo Crennel, Gus Bradley, Steve Spagnuolo, and Raheem Morris who will only ever be interim head coaches. Lovie Smith broke out of this category by becoming the head coach of the Texans, but that's not exactly a highly sought after role.

[FilthyBeast]

To be frank, he's fortunate he's even still the DC here after the chiefs debacle.

 

And I still think not moving on from him may come back to haunt this team again this year because this scheme has proven over and over again it's not effective against above average to elite QB's in this league.

 

 

[Doc]

20 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I think that’s fair. The flip side is that teams with stud QBs aren’t usually the ones replacing their HC. It’s a little “chicken and egg.” Maybe a situation like the Chargers, if they underachieve would be possible? The point remains though, if there are 6 or 7 jobs he’s probably only a realistic candidate for 1 or 2. Someone like Daboll would be considered in pretty much every situation. 

 

Yup.  For him to have success, he'd need to go to a team with a stud QB and as you said, those are few and far between,  But it does happen. 

[GerstAusGosheim]

7 hours ago, Gobills14094 said:

He's 21-32 as a head coach. That record doesn't lie.

 

And Belichick is 70-79 without Brady and has a 29-58 record against .500 teams.