Mr. WEO Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 5 minutes ago, Doc said: So what? His accuracy was poor. He never had a Jordan Palmer. 3 minutes ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said: Recency bias? Living in ATL, I watched Vick play every week with the Falcons, am plenty familiar with the amazing on field exploits. But Allen is otherworldly, don’t care about what metric you want to judge that by. If you still want to pick Vick over Allen from a tools standpoint when picking your QB, then I applaud your maverick against the grain thinking. 🙂 Arm strength was the topic. Easily Vick had that same arm strength--with no coached throwing motion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 1 minute ago, Mr. WEO said: He never had a Jordan Palmer. He had Andy Reid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 1 minute ago, Doc said: He had Andy Reid. so what? What did Reid do to improve Vick's accuracy? Who did he have him work with, after, you know, Vick got out of prison? As for who is the better runner, Vick had insane numbers running the ball--like no one else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HardyBoy Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 Only got through the first page and a half before I couldn't resist chiming in, so maybe someone else comped this guy, but doubt it. The qb that I think most comps to JA is Donovan McNabb...flame away, I don't care. He was around 240, but "just" 6'2". To be clear, I am not saying McNabb was in the same stratosphere, he was excellent, but JA is transcendent. That said, I do think McNabb is the mold which Josh Allen is evolving. I have a feeling the arc of their careers, in terms of being big runners early and then really settling into a savy pocket passer is going to play out. Scary because of how good JA has been already as a pocket passed, but he has so much room for improvement it's terrifying what his ceiling could be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoHuddleKelly12 Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 12 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: He never had a Jordan Palmer. Arm strength was the topic. Easily Vick had that same arm strength--with no coached throwing motion. Palmer was not involved with coaching any of these throws, to my knowledge… 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 9 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: He never had a Jordan Palmer. Arm strength was the topic. Easily Vick had that same arm strength--with no coached throwing motion. So are we talking about physical tools or talent? Vick had the physical arm strength equal to Josh….but he was a much less accurate passer. Even if we were to agree that they had equal arm strength, no one would say Vick was more accurate. Allens arm talent is better. He’s a better reader of the football field and is a better thrower of the 3 nfl passes. He makes better use of pump fakes and is adept at looking off DBs. Vick is faster. That’s all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoHuddleKelly12 Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 7 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: so what? What did Reid do to improve Vick's accuracy? Who did he have him work with, after, you know, Vick got out of prison? As for who is the better runner, Vick had insane numbers running the ball--like no one else. except one Josh Allen… https://www.buffalorumblings.com/platform/amp/2018/12/12/18136447/buffalo-bills-josh-allen-breaks-michael-vicks-qb-rushing-mark-super-bowl-era 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 8 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: so what? What did Reid do to improve Vick's accuracy? Who did he have him work with, after, you know, Vick got out of prison? As for who is the better runner, Vick had insane numbers running the ball--like no one else. Reid couldn’t improve Vicks accuracy. And he ran so much because he wasn’t that great of a passer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heavy Kevi Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 On 7/7/2022 at 7:45 PM, Logic said: I believe Palmer is correct. In terms of sheer physical talent — arm strength, size, power, mobility, speed, jumping ability — I can’t think of anyone that’s ever been clearly superior to Josh Allen. Combine all of that with elite work ethic, competitiveness, and leadership ability, and you have the ingredients for a Hall of Famer. 100% agree. The only thing standing between Josh and the Hall is time. If he stays healthy enough to play for 10-15 years he will undoubtedly enter the HOF on his first year of eligibility. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 8 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: so what? What did Reid do to improve Vick's accuracy? Who did he have him work with, after, you know, Vick got out of prison? As for who is the better runner, Vick had insane numbers running the ball--like no one else. So your argument now lies behind Vick not having the proper coaching. Got it. great argument. You credit Rodgers and Mahomes for being more accurate than Josh. Yet Josh can’t be given the same nod over Vick….. because Vick never had the proper coaching. Vick is faster. That is all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HardyBoy Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 2 minutes ago, Doc said: Reid couldn’t improve Vicks accuracy. And he ran so much because he wasn’t that great of a passer. Vick had tens of thousands of hours of habits at that point. Allen was so raw coming into his rookie season. He basically played tiny school high school, juco, and lost a bunch of one of his Wyoming seasons with a busted collar bone. I think if Vick had been torn down as much as he was late in his career before his comeback early in his career, he would have had more hunger to keep growing instead of hanging on his transcendent skill. Allen really never had a transcendent skill, until he worked on his many good skills and got them to be elite in combination with his entire athletic skill set. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fergie's ire Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 In regards to Allen as a power runner, I remember someone trying to bring him down (think it was Joey Bosa) in the backfield and Josh was dragging him before going down. A flag came out and though it was on the Bills, the tackler immediately thought it was on him for something like a horse collar. He looks at the ref and yells, "What the hell am I supposed to do, the guys HUGE!!" His power is as impressive as his speed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warcodered Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 14 minutes ago, fergie's ire said: In regards to Allen as a power runner, I remember someone trying to bring him down (think it was Joey Bosa) in the backfield and Josh was dragging him before going down. A flag came out and though it was on the Bills, the tackler immediately thought it was on him for something like a horse collar. He looks at the ref and yells, "What the hell am I supposed to do, the guys HUGE!!" His power is as impressive as his speed. I don't remember the ref part, but I remember Bosa being mic'd up for that I think and trying to explain himself to our O-line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warcodered Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 2 hours ago, HardyBoy said: Vick had tens of thousands of hours of habits at that point. Allen was so raw coming into his rookie season. He basically played tiny school high school, juco, and lost a bunch of one of his Wyoming seasons with a busted collar bone. I think if Vick had been torn down as much as he was late in his career before his comeback early in his career, he would have had more hunger to keep growing instead of hanging on his transcendent skill. Allen really never had a transcendent skill, until he worked on his many good skills and got them to be elite in combination with his entire athletic skill set. Josh actually had a higher YPA and more yards and rushing TDs per game as a rookie than Vick did. It didn't stop him from trying to become a better passer. And the concept of a QB guru/coach wasn't foreign 20 years ago. So either Vick was unwilling to improve or unable to improve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 1 hour ago, Doc said: Josh actually had a higher YPA and more yards and rushing TDs per game as a rookie than Vick did. It didn't stop him from trying to become a better passer. And the concept of a QB guru/coach wasn't foreign 20 years ago. So either Vick was unwilling to improve or unable to improve. Vicks problems weren’t physical He had the crispest release and very good accuracy with his amazing athleticism where he never improved to reach his potential was on the mental side… he never mastered pre snap reads or the ability to stay calm under pressure and disguise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Success Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 I've been saying for awhile that I think Allen could be in the GOAT conversation eventually. And I don't think that's a homer take. I've watched the NFL for a long time and seen most of the greats. He just does stuff that no one else can really do. And he absolutely has the clutch gene to go along w/ all of that crazy talent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigAl2526 Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 Fortunately, Josh Allen does not seem like the kind of player to let those kinds of accolades go to his head. He seems to understand that his skill set and measurables only matter if they translate to what he does on the field. To get better takes hard work whether you're the most talented player in league or you're just average. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HardyBoy Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 2 hours ago, Doc said: Josh actually had a higher YPA and more yards and rushing TDs per game as a rookie than Vick did. It didn't stop him from trying to become a better passer. And the concept of a QB guru/coach wasn't foreign 20 years ago. So either Vick was unwilling to improve or unable to improve. Unwilling, I'm pretty sure I remember him saying that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Boo Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 Hard to argue against given his size, arm talent, speed and elusivness. To boot, he seems to have the work ethic and overall drive to be great. 4 hours ago, Doc said: Josh actually had a higher YPA and more yards and rushing TDs per game as a rookie than Vick did. It didn't stop him from trying to become a better passer. And the concept of a QB guru/coach wasn't foreign 20 years ago. So either Vick was unwilling to improve or unable to improve. Vick is on record stating that in his stint with the Falcons he relied almost solely on his natural ability. He didn't study the playbook or put in the work to improve as a QB. A waste, but also damn impressive seeing what he was able to do on the field. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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