ProcessAccepted Posted July 7, 2022 Share Posted July 7, 2022 10 hours ago, Mr. WEO said: Only 4 of them on the roster. One of them has a million threads debating whether he's worth the money to keep on the roster.. Another is a decent CB3 filling in and another is a ST guy. The other is Josh. I agree there should be a stat on how many threads a player has about him. It doesn't matter if its the same people rehashing the same the same arguments every single time. Oh and lets just forget that these are the same people that were so angry we picked the wrong Josh. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethan in Cleveland Posted July 7, 2022 Share Posted July 7, 2022 Allen makes it an all-time draft. If the Jets had taken Allen and Buffalo took Rosen or Darnold, Beane and McD would likely be out of jobs. We will never know how Beane ranked all the QBs. But give credit for Beane going up to get Allen after the Jets passed on him and criticize him for giving up picks to go up and get Edmunds. Taron is a great player. Far far better than many on this board give him credit. Edmunds is (fill in the blank) Phillips probably is an unknown. He had maybe 6 quality games in Buffalo. Had he been healthy who knows. I don't care much about special teams players, but to get a guy that plays 20+ plays a game late in the draft is a good pick. Many teams play multiple safety looks and Neal is decent in that role. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted July 7, 2022 Share Posted July 7, 2022 13 hours ago, JerseyBills said: https://www.nfl.com/news/baker-mayfield-first-pick-of-2018-nfl-draft-traded-ranking-the-top-five-classes- Pretty amazing that he basically hit on his first 6 picks. Siran Neal is the only non starter out of the draft picks but he's still valuable in the big nickel and on ST. I consider Phillips as a starter based on his play and contract he got. Very impressive draft. That Taron pick really stands out to me. What a draft! Wish we stuck with Teller but it is what it is. What a blessing he has been to this franchise Any ranking of the 2018 NFL draft that doesn’t put the Bills in the top slot is the product of a moron. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paup 1995MVP Posted July 7, 2022 Share Posted July 7, 2022 13 hours ago, NewEra said: Taron Johnson is one of the best slot corners in the league. But find the words best to minimize his selection. He’s a stud for a 4th round pick. Edmunds is a good Lb and will make a boatload of cash during his career. He likely won’t live up to his draft position, but he’s not a bust. Phillips just signed a 3 year 19M contract as a 1T. Good player who’s career has been stifled by injuries. Teller is an all pro guard that was drafted with our 2nd selection in rd 5. Trading him was a major mistake….but he was a tremendous selection. Neal has been a very good ST player and decent depth that has earned a 2nd contract as a 5th round pick. Mccloud is still in the league and get snaps. oh yeah, and Josh Allen is the best player in the league. It was a GREAT draft. It’s a great draft. Can’t stop won’t stop Its a great draft because we got Josh Allen, who will hopefully go down as one of the best QB's to ever play the game. At least one of the most exciting. Taron Johnson is an excellent football player. Not a big guy. But gets the most out of his game week in and week out. Edmunds has not been a bust, but has a low ceiling. And will never be a star in the NFL. Just doesn't have the instincts that very good to great players have. And was overdrafted. Phillips can be a force in the middle if he stays healthy. Teller is a brawler and a beast. I remember watching him in person at Va Tech when my son went on a recruiting visit there. Guy is a force. But GM's aren't perfect. I think Bates can be pretty dam good going forward. Time will tell on that. Neal is a solid player. Not overly athletic. But a solid contributor with an occasional big play. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted July 7, 2022 Share Posted July 7, 2022 11 hours ago, Mr. WEO said: Only 4 of them on the roster. One of them has a million threads debating whether he's worth the money to keep on the roster.. Another is a decent CB3 filling in and another is a ST guy. The other is Josh. I think you grade a draft based upon whether the players are still in the league and in what capacity, not necessarily whether they are still on the same team. Phillips earned starter's money for his 2nd contract so he counts as a "hit" for Beane. JMO 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted July 7, 2022 Share Posted July 7, 2022 15 hours ago, JerseyBills said: https://www.nfl.com/news/baker-mayfield-first-pick-of-2018-nfl-draft-traded-ranking-the-top-five-classes- Pretty amazing that he basically hit on his first 6 picks. Siran Neal is the only non starter out of the draft picks but he's still valuable in the big nickel and on ST. I consider Phillips as a starter based on his play and contract he got. Very impressive draft. That Taron pick really stands out to me. What a draft! Wish we stuck with Teller but it is what it is. What a blessing he has been to this franchise I would argue he also hit technically on the Ray Ray pick given at where he was drafted, you really are often looking for ST contributions at that point in the draft and he is a starting ST player still in the league for the Steelers. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted July 7, 2022 Share Posted July 7, 2022 1 hour ago, eball said: I think you grade a draft based upon whether the players are still in the league and in what capacity, not necessarily whether they are still on the same team. Phillips earned starter's money for his 2nd contract so he counts as a "hit" for Beane. JMO My thinking is that if the FO is tossing away it's draft picks before their rookie contract is up, they didn't feel they were picks good enough to keep. Articles quoting GMs seem to have a consensus that getting 3 starters out of the 7 allotted picks (before trades) is a "good draft". 2018 is a "good draft". Drafting other teams' starters to me doesn't make one a greater draft. If you have no use on the roster for rookie contract picks, then for your team, they were misses. Unless you trade them for a better player, that weren't of significant or lasting value. Taken to its extreme, if 6 of a teams picks end up starters on other teams before signing a second contract with the Bills is that a "great draft? What if they are all All Pros? If the 7th pick is Josh Allen than, yeah, maybe, lol. Otherwise of course not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted July 7, 2022 Share Posted July 7, 2022 4 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: My thinking is that if the FO is tossing away it's draft picks before their rookie contract is up, they didn't feel they were picks good enough to keep. Articles quoting GMs seem to have a consensus that getting 3 starters out of the 7 allotted picks (before trades) is a "good draft". 2018 is a "good draft". Drafting other teams' starters to me doesn't make one a greater draft. If you have no use on the roster for rookie contract picks, then for your team, they were misses. Unless you trade them for a better player, that weren't of significant or lasting value. Taken to its extreme, if 6 of a teams picks end up starters on other teams before signing a second contract with the Bills is that a "great draft? What if they are all All Pros? If the 7th pick is Josh Allen than, yeah, maybe, lol. Otherwise of course not Beane didn't "toss away" Phillips...he played out his contract and got a starter's deal in free agency from another team. It happens. it was still a good draft pick and the Bills got "full" value out of the rookie deal. Once a guy hits free agency anything can happen. If the player is earning starter's money on a 2nd team I still think the original draft pick was "good" unless you're talking about a 1st or 2nd rounder who is a marginal starter. Evaluating a "good" draft is assessing the GM's ability to select players who have proven they belong in the NFL in some significant capacity. Again, just my opinion. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted July 7, 2022 Share Posted July 7, 2022 13 hours ago, Doc Brown said: It's close even if you just look at it on who's on the team now. The 2017 draft gave us quality starters at three positions with White, Dawkins, and Milano as key pieces despite moving back 17 spots in the first round. The 2018 draft gave us two quality starters (Allen and T. Johnson) and one TBD in Edmunds. Neal was a solid pick in the 6th round too. It's difficult to separate the two but getting the franchise QB gives 2018 the edge. You forgot Zay Jones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted July 7, 2022 Share Posted July 7, 2022 17 hours ago, NewEra said: Taron Johnson is one of the best slot corners in the league. But find the words best to minimize his selection. He’s a stud for a 4th round pick. Edmunds is a good Lb and will make a boatload of cash during his career. He likely won’t live up to his draft position, but he’s not a bust. Phillips just signed a 3 year 19M contract as a 1T. Good player who’s career has been stifled by injuries. Teller is an all pro guard that was drafted with our 2nd selection in rd 5. Trading him was a major mistake….but he was a tremendous selection. Neal has been a very good ST player and decent depth that has earned a 2nd contract as a 5th round pick. Mccloud is still in the league and get snaps. oh yeah, and Josh Allen is the best player in the league. It was a GREAT draft. It’s a great draft. Can’t stop won’t stop If Josh Allen were the team's only selection in the 2018 draft, it would probably still go down as the best draft in Bills history. Everything else is gravy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyBills Posted July 7, 2022 Author Share Posted July 7, 2022 3 hours ago, Paup 1995MVP said: Its a great draft because we got Josh Allen, who will hopefully go down as one of the best QB's to ever play the game. At least one of the most exciting. Taron Johnson is an excellent football player. Not a big guy. But gets the most out of his game week in and week out. Edmunds has not been a bust, but has a low ceiling. And will never be a star in the NFL. Just doesn't have the instincts that very good to great players have. And was overdrafted. Phillips can be a force in the middle if he stays healthy. Teller is a brawler and a beast. I remember watching him in person at Va Tech when my son went on a recruiting visit there. Guy is a force. But GM's aren't perfect. I think Bates can be pretty dam good going forward. Time will tell on that. Neal is a solid player. Not overly athletic. But a solid contributor with an occasional big play. Edmunds has been discussed so much , the one thing I noticed is he's consistently praised by teammates , other teams fanbases and majority of NFL media. A quick, recent example is Chad Reuter of nfl.com doing a 7 rd 'win now' mock draft of current NFL players for just the year 2022. Edmunds comes in at no 167 , drafted in the 6th rd. And a top 5 MLB. https://www.nfl.com/news/seven-round-win-now-nfl-mock-draft-for-2022-season-every-teams-picks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machine gun kelly Posted July 7, 2022 Share Posted July 7, 2022 4 hours ago, eball said: Beane didn't "toss away" Phillips...he played out his contract and got a starter's deal in free agency from another team. It happens. it was still a good draft pick and the Bills got "full" value out of the rookie deal. Once a guy hits free agency anything can happen. If the player is earning starter's money on a 2nd team I still think the original draft pick was "good" unless you're talking about a 1st or 2nd rounder who is a marginal starter. Evaluating a "good" draft is assessing the GM's ability to select players who have proven they belong in the NFL in some significant capacity. Again, just my opinion. Are we talking about Jordan Phillips as we didn’t draft him, but we placed a value on him and he received more from AZ, just like we needed him from Miami and we outbid Miami. If another Phillips, it escapes me. The point Eball is making on we place a value on these guys, let them prove themselves in their rookie contract, we place a value on a guy and if outbid, it’s why GM’s make $, because they have to make hard decisions. Wyatt Teller is a good example of a miss, I’m sure Beane would’ve liked a do over, but hindsight is 20/20. We’ve also had it right more than enough times. During the last cycle, we’ve extended Hyde, Poyer (1st and 2nd team All pros after their last extensions, Tre, and on and on. Again it’s a judgment call and armchair AB’s always think they are the smartest guys in the room when they don’t have the consequences on the line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US Egg Posted July 7, 2022 Share Posted July 7, 2022 Ten years from now Josh Allen will be talked about as the greatest player in his draft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Otreply Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 21 hours ago, Mr. WEO said: I didn't even hint that Edmunds is a bust. Johnson is a decent slot yes (not top 5 per the same crew that listed Poyer #1 safety). He gets a lot of passes thrown his way. Rating 80 vs him. Other better slots also came in 3rd or 4th round and from small school background. Good pick. Neal is a ST player as I said. Plays 2/3 snaps. The guys Beane got rid of/let go don't count--why would they? None of them offered a second contract. Teller can't be both a great addition and a poor choice as a subtraction. Not for the Bills anyway. McCloud is a JAG. If the Bills drafted the "other Josh", no one would be looking back and saying "yeah but they got Edmunds, T Johnson, Neal and a bunch of guys for other teams' rosters." You always hint that Edmunds is a bust, 😂, You, Bado and Scottlaw, its become a running joke at this point, nuthin but luv Weo, but it is what it is, 😁👍 Go Bills!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Putin Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 21 hours ago, Mr. WEO said: Only 4 of them on the roster. One of them has a million threads debating whether he's worth the money to keep on the roster.. Another is a decent CB3 filling in and another is a ST guy. The other is Josh. Complete bust !! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 12 hours ago, Mr. WEO said: I've been a supporter of JA for years now. Wake up! I just don't see how a FO can get credit for scouting a draft pick correctly then letting him go (to star somewhere else) before his second contract. "2/3 snaps" is a fraction: it means "two thirds". As you confirmed, he played 66% of ST snaps, or "2/3" or "two thirds". That escalated quickly! The best? Lol, my bad on the 2/3 🤦🏻♂️. In terms of the 1st point, Phillips they get credit for. They developed a 3rd rounder that was in demand and got a substantial 2nd deal. I’d even say the same with McCloud to a lesser degree. They had to make tough roster decisions because they have had a ton of talent for the last handful of years. However, they DID identify players that have outperformed their draft slots. They just can’t keep them all. I’m a little less forgiving on Teller. They didn’t see just how good he was. They thought of him as a decent option on the OL. He was a star. 1 hour ago, I am the egg man said: Ten years from now Josh Allen will be talked about as the greatest player in his draft. He isn’t now? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 1 hour ago, I am the egg man said: Ten years from now Josh Allen will be talked about as the greatest player in his draft. I think that’s already the consensus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dopey Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 I've looked at the 5 drafts presented in the article by the OP and other than Indy, it's not even close as to which draft is the best. Josh definitely tips the scale, but you can't say the draft would suck if not for Josh. It doesn't work that way. He's part of that draft class. As to not having Teller on the team still? IMO, that's not what the article was about. It was about the draft itself. The author's premise was that our draft class was the best. He's not wrong. Unless you want to move the goal post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Brown Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 7 hours ago, Mr. WEO said: You forgot Zay Jones. The world needs ditch diggers too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 11 hours ago, Doc Brown said: The world needs ditch diggers too. He had quality starts on another team to which he was traded 2 years into his rookie contract....Am I doing this right? 13 hours ago, Don Otreply said: You always hint that Edmunds is a bust, 😂, You, Bado and Scottlaw, its become a running joke at this point, nuthin but luv Weo, but it is what it is, 😁👍 Go Bills!!! link? Yeah, it's me who every seasons starts multiple threads about "is Edmunds worth keeping". nice try! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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