What are your thoughts regarding the future of the United States?

[Orlando Buffalo]

53 minutes ago, Niagara Bill said:

You are correct, but they are used as a political weapon, every post election sole the intended role and modern role are different. If there was a left leaning court the gun issue may be different. I understand it is a republic, but the court has increasingly been political. If the present court decision on RvW is correct then previous decisions were wrong and should never have been made.

R vs W was a weak decision according to almost every honest legal scholar, including RBG. It was not a role the SC should have taken since it found a right in the constitution that is not explicitly written, or truly even referred to directly 

[Tiberius]

14 minutes ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

R vs W was a weak decision according to almost every honest legal scholar, including RBG. It was not a role the SC should have taken since it found a right in the constitution that is not explicitly written, or truly even referred to directly 

Not one single women was in on writing the Constitution, so ya. Alito's arguments all sited men from the time before women had a right to participate in the government, 

[aristocrat]

 

[aristocrat]

36 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

I think we can rely on that for the most part, but Liberals are also smart and calculating. Like the North in the Civil War, or the USA in WW2, we are slow to anger, but when we are pushed we will move with the steady momentum of a mighty avalanche. 

 

 

 

First of all a civil war is a ridiculous scenario. But I don't think you realize where the majority of the police and military lie politiically.  The military swear an oath to the constitution. The recent supreme court rulings were based on the constitution. But this is a children's argument about civil war and arguing who's side is tougher 

[ChiGoose]

I think all of this talk of things like civil war misses a more likely scenario: a slide into an illiberal democracy like Hungary.

 

Instead of advancing our democracy with reforms that will give more power to the people, we are backsliding into anti-democratic trends with things like partisan gerrymandering and laws designed to make voting harder.

 

We already live in an environment where, depending on where you live, your vote may not actually matter. Liberals in Texas and Conservatives in California are essentially disenfranchised for most statewide elections. That trend is likely to continue until we get to a point where we are so heavily polarized that most elections are predetermined and we either get a one-party government or one so inherently broken that it is incapable of addressing anything.

[Tiberius]

23 minutes ago, aristocrat said:

 

First of all a civil war is a ridiculous scenario. But I don't think you realize where the majority of the police and military lie politiically.  The military swear an oath to the constitution. The recent supreme court rulings were based on the constitution. But this is a children's argument about civil war and arguing who's side is tougher 

Trump tried to overthrow the constitution, so yes, that oath would put them on our side. 

 

As to Supreme Court, they cherry picked the constitution and history to make their rulings. Fine, we Dems can run in elections against the court now. These mid terms should have been an easy slam dunk for you...well...people, but not anymore 

1 minute ago, ChiGoose said:

I think all of this talk of things like civil war misses a more likely scenario: a slide into an illiberal democracy like Hungary.

 

Instead of advancing our democracy with reforms that will give more power to the people, we are backsliding into anti-democratic trends with things like partisan gerrymandering and laws designed to make voting harder.

 

We already live in an environment where, depending on where you live, your vote may not actually matter. Liberals in Texas and Conservatives in California are essentially disenfranchised for most statewide elections. That trend is likely to continue until we get to a point where we are so heavily polarized that most elections are predetermined and we either get a one-party government or one so inherently broken that it is incapable of addressing anything.

Let’s hold off on Texas, one day soon, it will be a Democratic stronghold. Demographics are destiny 

[aristocrat]

4 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Trump tried to overthrow the constitution, so yes, that oath would put them on our side. 

 

As to Supreme Court, they cherry picked the constitution and history to make their rulings. Fine, we Dems can run in elections against the court now. These mid terms should have been an easy slam dunk for you...well...people, but not anymore 

Let’s hold off on Texas, one day soon, it will be a Democratic stronghold. Demographics are destiny 

 

The independents have the lowest approval rate of Biden at about 19 percent as of last week so I don't think much is changing. Those are the people who decide elections. 

[ChiGoose]

4 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Let’s hold off on Texas, one day soon, it will be a Democratic stronghold. Demographics are destiny 

 

I think that is far from certain. The GOP is making gains with the Latino vote. Even a small gain greatly hurts the Dems chances given how dependent they are on that demographic in Texas.

 

The Dems have generally been taking Latino voters for granted and it's beginning to show.

[T master]

13 hours ago, Bad Things said:

I posed this question in another thread, but thought it should be the subject of a new thread.

 

In short, I was born and raised in the USA, but moved away to New Zealand in 2005.

In the 17 years since I've been away, I've kept up with the news coming out of there, while also staying in touch with family and friends and hearing their opinions.

 

Needless to say, there seems to be more and more bad news coming out of the US, especially over the last 6 years. 

It's now gotten to where I hear people in America openly believing that the country is heading towards civil war.

 

That said, I'd really like to know how you all view the future of the country and what you expect will happen in the coming years.

 

For what it's worth, I obviously wish you ALL nothing but the best.

 

 

 

Let's go, Buffalo.

 

I was born in the 60's and as a young person use to work every summer on farms to make money & had to mow & rake the lawn plus do chores around the house then we would help local farmers that were both friends and family put up hay every year for their animals in the winter we too had gardens to keep up with so would could can veggies every year .

 

Now that i am much older IMPO i feel that the US has become a country full of a bunch whiny ass lazy entitled people of all races that feel just because they live in what is the best country in the world feel they are entitled to nothing short of the best of every thing some thinking that it all should be free to them also that will in no way other than going to the gym break a sweat to make a living they should have it with out working for it .

 

Sure there are some still out there willing to work for it but for the over all majority not so much . If you go to a job sight look for the fat guy or gal either sitting in a air conditioned office or the pick up truck with the air conditioning on & he or she is usually the boss while (not to be racist of condescending in any way) the biggest part of the work force is immigrants & for the most part of spanish decent because they aren't afraid to bust their ass unlike a lot of todays Americans .

 

Which is in part one huge reason why those in power continually want illegals to come in because Americans are to dam spoiled & lazy to get off their preverbal asses & work for a living if you don't believe me just go around any large town or city & look at how many Now Hiring signs there are and how many are standing on a street corner pan handling .

 

Seems as though all the graduates today look to do computer type careers or lawyers (just what we freakin need another lawyer) there are little to no young people that have access to learning a trade or willing to sweat to get there .

 

We have become a country full of entitled spoiled rotten individuals for the most part not all but most that don't want to or won't work for what they want & expect it should be given to them !

 

Use to be health care was a perk something given to those by the company to those that were exemplary employees now weather you work or your entire life goal is to fleece the system every one is expected to get all the entitlements . Use to be social security was something you could put money into as a retirement fund but now ALL weather you are a citizen or not can get their hands in it once agin thank you to our lovely gov't politicians for that !!

 

Some get free rent, electricity, food stamps, water & sewer, while they drive around in their fancy cars with their cell phones which OMG every ones got to have one of those now a days & also if you don't have the internet HOLY S**T the world is gonna come to a end WTF ???

 

Then the worst thing about it is that the politicians the ones that the entitled spoiled rotten Americans elect into office continue to just give all of this and more in promising this stuff in order to be selected for some up to 50+ yrs in the gov't then we all (well some) wonder why the US is in debt one our heads & it just continues to get worse & worse .

 

But we will continue to appoint these jack asses that can't even balance their own check books & give away things like hypodermic needles welfare & other things freely that a lot of these folks don't need & with a little bit of watching these folks it could be found out who were fleecing the system & who actually needs it .

 

Oh (and this one will piss off some people i'm sure) there are those today that feel that they are due reparations because of a ancestor that they never knew or cared about until they heard the word "Reparation"  that was a slave & actually knew what real racism was not the watered down or exaggerated  version of what it is today in some cases .

 

I am in no way saying for those of you that will misconstrue that last statement that racism doesn't exist today because it does but i am saying that in a lot of cases it is & can & will be blown out of proportion to make others feel it is more than it is in some instances .

 

I say that because i've been told this by  people that i consider friends that grew up around the time i did that have told me that these younger folks today feel they are discriminated against & scream racism but have it so so easy in comparison to what those of a different era did those that actually paid the price for those today to have it as easy as they do yet they still cry & whine instead of as it has been said go out & JUST DO IT !!

 

I feel that we have seen civil war as recent as a couple years back when the so called "Peaceful Protest" were going on & those wing nuts stormed the capital & i feel that given the way our gov't wants to keep us divided  we can't see as a people that we would be better off United that it will get worse before i t gets better .

 

There are so many people that we could look to that we could draw inspiration from yet we tend to look at those that just want to stir the pot & cause divisions i won't mention any names but i'm sure we all have our own thoughts on that but the US as a hole is still the greatest country on the planet but dammit there is there a ton of bad that has come from that entitlement attitude we have adopted instead of the working for it that the country use to have .

 

I pray that it will get better but i don't see it in my life time as long as the "I'm a Entitled American" mind set continues it will never get better .

 

So slay away all of you out there that disagree i'm sure there will be some hateful reply's but this is just one old guys opinion & in todays world i'm sure the woke crowd will come out in full force to cancel me if they read this & have any opposite opinions which hey have at it we are all entitled to one thing & that is our own individual opinions !!

 

Be blessed !! GO Bills !!  

[All_Pro_Bills]

1 minute ago, aristocrat said:

 

The independents have the lowest approval rate of Biden at about 19 percent as of last week so I don't think much is changing. Those are the people who decide elections. 

I think this reflects the lack of options.  Personally, neither major party represents my views and interests to any great degree or to my satisfaction.  If I could pick and choose from a list of positions and options on various subjects and issues from both parties it might create a third party that would align with my interests.  One that I suspect would also represent the interests of independents and a large number of Democrats and Republicans that just are not on-board with the extremes of either.  

I expect some third party will emerge to represent just such a perspective.  The seeds for that to happen are sown by the current level of chaos and conflict.  And over time, as the current system of arrangements deteriorates, I think both political parties are doomed to minority status as their governance continues to become more and more ineffective and unpopular over time.  It might take a couple decades or maybe just a couple years depending on how bad things get.     

[aristocrat]

3 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

I think this reflects the lack of options.  Personally, neither major party represents my views and interests to any great degree or to my satisfaction.  If I could pick and choose from a list of positions and options on various subjects and issues from both parties it might create a third party that would align with my interests.  One that I suspect would also represent the interests of independents and a large number of Democrats and Republicans that just are not on-board with the extremes of either.  

I expect some third party will emerge to represent just such a perspective.  The seeds for that to happen are sown by the current level of chaos and conflict.  And over time, as the current system of arrangements deteriorates, I think both political parties are doomed to minority status as their governance continues to become more and more ineffective and unpopular over time.  It might take a couple decades or maybe just a couple years depending on how bad things get.     

 

I would love that. Cause that's where I lie. I have voted Democrat and I have voted Republican. 

[Tiberius]

16 minutes ago, ChiGoose said:

 

I think that is far from certain. The GOP is making gains with the Latino vote. Even a small gain greatly hurts the Dems chances given how dependent they are on that demographic in Texas.

 

The Dems have generally been taking Latino voters for granted and it's beginning to show.

Even if GOP takes a great share of Hispanic vote the numbers are exploding. Most HS graduates in Texas are Hispanic. That’s going to ripple through the years. I remember people saying Georgia would never go Dem. well...

 

Add to that these horrific gun crimes where Hispanics are the victims 

20 minutes ago, aristocrat said:

 

The independents have the lowest approval rate of Biden at about 19 percent as of last week so I don't think much is changing. Those are the people who decide elections. 

Biden isn’t on the ballot. 

[ChiGoose]

5 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

I think this reflects the lack of options.  Personally, neither major party represents my views and interests to any great degree or to my satisfaction.  If I could pick and choose from a list of positions and options on various subjects and issues from both parties it might create a third party that would align with my interests.  One that I suspect would also represent the interests of independents and a large number of Democrats and Republicans that just are not on-board with the extremes of either.  

I expect some third party will emerge to represent just such a perspective.  The seeds for that to happen are sown by the current level of chaos and conflict.  And over time, as the current system of arrangements deteriorates, I think both political parties are doomed to minority status as their governance continues to become more and more ineffective and unpopular over time.  It might take a couple decades or maybe just a couple years depending on how bad things get.     

 

I agree with a lot of this but the problem is that we have a first-past-the-post electoral system which makes third parties almost impossible. We haven't had a major party replaced in over 150 years.

 

If we really want this kind of reform, we need to enact reforms that are politically neutral but allow for the creation of third parties by eliminating the spoiler effect. A system like Ranked Choice Voting or Approval Voting would allow voters to choose their preferred candidate regardless of their party or chance of electoral success without worrying that doing so will benefit their least preferred candidate.

 

Until we do something like that, it is unlikely we will be able to break the Dem - GOP stronghold on our political process and we will continue to be sorted into two camps and incentivized to demonize the other camp.

[MPL]

What I find most disconcerting is that 100% of Americans are fully convinced that 50% of Americans are mentally disturbed.

The United States has always been a Yin and Yang kind of thing with liberalism and conservatism forming a complementary dynamic, that when in sync can produce incredible results. But the force of one always matches the other. We've gone through multiple iterations in American history where one side has seemed to capture control only to see the other side rise up to meet it and turn the tide. 

We are a little over 20 years into wide-spread internet access. I think we are starting to see the negative ramifications of it. Ramifications that no one had any way of knowing, because such rapid access to information had never been available before in history. This is both good and bad. No matter what you believe—and in America you can believe literally anything—you can find news, opinions, and stories that are perfectly tailored to fit your narrative. Don't like what Fox News has to say, you can turn on MSNBC. Don't like what MSNBC has to say? You can turn on Fox News. Don't like what corporate media has to say? You can turn on Joe Rogan. 

 

The positive is that we have freedom of choice. We have so much freedom of choice. The downside is that, generally speaking, people don't actually want freedom. We can't handle it, that's why religion had to be invented. It was inevitable. We needed rules, guidelines, and something that told us all of this time on earth meant something. 

 

A few years ago, I began seeing a lot of studies about developed nations and religion. The general finding was that as developed nations become wealthier, people become less religious. Or, as countries become less religious, they become wealthier. It's kind of a chicken or the egg argument, but there seems to be a correlation.  From my perspective, the extremely religious population (from a myriad of beliefs and denominations) has gone from being an afterthought to once again being at the center of American politics. They've risen up to meet the rise in the more atheistic liberalism that seemed to be the status quo for the past few decades. This isn't the first time that this happened either.

 

None of this should be surprising. After all, the first Europeans to land here were religious extremists that had been exiled from England because their religion was considered, well, too extreme. In America, you can start a religion almost as easily as you can start a business. There's something for nearly any belief. Don't like what one denomination teaches, join another. 

There's a trend I've seen, and it's that as Americans, we're born with a sense of privilege and a belief that we're God's greatest gift to the world. On an individual level, we're all convinced that we're right and everyone else is wrong. We tell ourselves that we're free thinkers while getting all of our information from slanted external sources. 99.9% of us are not free thinkers but 100% of us sure as hell think that we are. 

 

Are we heading towards a civil war? I think we've never stopped fighting the first one and frankly, I don't know that we're capable of not fighting it. But this new civil war is fought without uniforms and generals. It's fought with mass shootings at schools, parades, churches, grocery stores, and concerts. It's fought on Twitter and YouTube, and Fox News, and MSNBC, and CNN. It's fought on Reddit and message boards. 

 

But mostly, it's fought in our own heads and in our beliefs. 

 

Put your weapons down and be good to each other. 

Edited July 6, 2022 by MPL
typo

[aristocrat]

 

 

Here's the issue. We have to accept election results and allow the people to lead. We don't do that. 

[Niagara Bill]

2 hours ago, Tiberius said:

Oh, we will fight! You guys are just full of soft targets to eliminate with extreme prejudice. You think those motorcycle gangs are going to be able to drive around if any sort of violence begins? LOL, those are big fat soft targets. There are many other easy targets. There won;t be a civil war, but if they is don't think for a second you guys will have it easy, you won't. 

 

I don't think there are "fiscal conservatives." How many of the so-called fiscal Conservatives are not supporters of flooding the country with guns and controlling women's reproductive rights? Not many 

Calling fellow Americans soft targets....really

BTW, how many libsvsrd hunters and own guns?

 

Yes you can be fiscal conservative and not own a gun...there are a couple on this board.

2 hours ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

R vs W was a weak decision according to almost every honest legal scholar, including RBG. It was not a role the SC should have taken since it found a right in the constitution that is not explicitly written, or truly even referred to directly 

True, according to role, they should not hear the case, there is no constitutional need to be involved.

It is a state issue, like the death penalty. On the other hand, guns are mentioned in the document, so that should only be a national issue, IMHO.

[Orlando Buffalo]

2 hours ago, Tiberius said:

Not one single women was in on writing the Constitution, so ya. Alito's arguments all sited men from the time before women had a right to participate in the government, 

What wording would be in the constitution if women were allowed to write it completely that would matter in the Roe vs Wade argument?

[All_Pro_Bills]

1 minute ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

What wording would be in the constitution if women were allowed to write it completely that would matter in the Roe vs Wade argument?

 

 

1 hour ago, MPL said:

What I find most disconcerting is that 100% of Americans are fully convinced that 50% of Americans are mentally disturbed.

The United States has always been a Yin and Yang kind of thing with liberalism and conservatism forming a complementary dynamic, that when in sync can produce incredible results. But the force of one always matches the other. We've gone through multiple iterations in American history where one side has seemed to capture control only to see the other side rise up to meet it and turn the tide. 

We are a little over 20 years into wide-spread internet access. I think we are starting to see the negative ramifications of it. Ramifications that no one had any way of knowing, because such rapid access to information had never been available before in history. This is both good and bad. No matter what you believe—and in America you can believe literally anything—you can find news, opinions, and stories that are perfectly tailored to fit your narrative. Don't like what Fox News has to say, you can turn on MSNBC. Don't like what MSNBC has to say? You can turn on Fox News. Don't like what corporate media has to say? You can turn on Joe Rogan. 

 

The positive is that we have freedom of choice. We have so much freedom of choice. The downside is that, generally speaking, people don't actually want freedom. We can't handle it, that's why religion had to be invented. It was inevitable. We needed rules, guidelines, and something that told us all of this time on earth meant something. 

 

A few years ago, I began seeing a lot of studies about developed nations and religion. The general finding was that as developed nations become wealthier, people become less religious. Or, as countries become less religious, they become wealthier. It's kind of a chicken or the egg argument, but there seems to be a correlation.  From my perspective, the extremely religious population (from a myriad of beliefs and denominations) has gone from being an afterthought to once again being at the center of American politics. They've risen up to meet the rise in the more atheistic liberalism that seemed to be the status quo for the past few decades. This isn't the first time that this happened either.

 

None of this should be surprising. After all, the first Europeans to land here were religious extremists that had been exiled from England because their religion was considered, well, too extreme. In America, you can start a religion almost as easily as you can start a business. There's something for nearly any belief. Don't like what one denomination teaches, join another. 

There's a trend I've seen, and it's that as Americans, we're born with a sense of privilege and a belief that we're God's greatest gift to the world. On an individual level, we're all convinced that we're right and everyone else is wrong. We tell ourselves that we're free thinkers while getting all of our information from slanted external sources. 99.9% of us are not free thinkers but 100% of us sure as hell think that we are. 

 

Are we heading towards a civil war? I think we've never stopped fighting the first one and frankly, I don't know that we're capable of not fighting it. But this new civil war is fought without uniforms and generals. It's fought with mass shootings at schools, parades, churches, grocery stores, and concerts. It's fought on Twitter and YouTube, and Fox News, and MSNBC, and CNN. It's fought on Reddit and message boards. 

 

But mostly, it's fought in our own heads and in our beliefs. 

 

Put your weapons down and be good to each other. 

I believe the core of the problem is a concentration of power.  Big government.  The government is too powerful.  At the Federal, State, and in some situations such as large urban centers.  And when one side or the other gains control of this power they attempt to use it to push around people that have different views and opinions.  

Take away governments funding and they have no money or ability to push around American citizens regardless of their views.  Everybody minds their business and quarrels are private matters to be settled outside of the political arena.   

 

[SoCal Deek]

I take the time to write out how this is all supposed to work, and within minutes, the Board blows up with the usual cast of characters screaming at each other.  People need to take (or retake) a basic Government Class.  It would cure most of this.

[Irv]

It would be helpful if we had more Independents.  At the national level - how many are there?  Two?  Two out of Five Hundred Thirty-Five. (.0004) Nearly 40% of Americans consider themselves Independents.   But Independents never get elected. 

 

Nobody with half a brain always agrees with the party line.  But that's how the Legislative Branch is run.  If you disagree, ask Liz Cheney.  

 

What a mess.  

 

 

Edited July 6, 2022 by Irv