Locked on Bills Podcast: A Case for Tremaine Edmunds

[CorkScrewHill]

This was an interesting breakdown on the impact of Tremaine Edmunds. I am not for or against Tremaine other than I want him to do well to help the Bills win. The person used data to make some points, based on what Tyrel Dodson stated about Tremaine.

 

https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2022/7/5/23169554/fact-checking-tyrel-dodsons-claims-on-tremaine-edmunds

 

 

[SCBills]

4 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Interesting comment.   I, for one and I think for most of us, haven't really gotten used to be a fan of a top team.  One personnel characteristic of top teams is they seem to be able make surprising moves in free agency.   For me, Miller came out of nowhere, but in retrospect I shouldn't have been so surprised.  Every off-season, some of the best teams get better.   

 

Similarly, surprising draft moves happen to with the best teams.   What's probably in the Bills' future is a player-for picks move, a player the fans love but that the Bills think they can afford to move.   Like an Oliver, for example.  Or, supposing Bernard really flashes this summer, a Milano.  We'd howl, but if the Bills got a second-round pick, or even packaged another pick with a player and got a first round pick, now come draft time, the Bills have options.   If their trade partner also happens to have a lousy season, the new pick becomes even more valuable, and the new pick is ammunition to be packaged with the Bills' first pick, and suddenly the Bills are sitting at 10 or 12 or 15.  

 

As I've been saying, I think if you want to be a long-term Buffalo Bill, you have to be either a core player or willing to take less money to stay in Buffalo.   The only exceptions are the Milanos, whom the Bills value enough to match the market, but even those guys are at risk.  Very few guys are indispensable.  

 

I'd agree that, while surprising, us trading Milano wouldn't be shocking.  Could very well be that Edmunds hasn't been extended yet for accounting purposes and Bernard was drafted as a Milano replacement once he gets a year under his belt.  

 

Not sure it makes a ton of sense, in terms of asset allocation, to pay good money a Slot CB, MLB and OLB, while also spending a Day 2 pick on an OLB for a team that only has 3 of them on the field at a time.  

 

Caveat being the Bills saw the Bengals throw a 3-3-5 type defense at the Chiefs and said "we want to be able to do that with high talent players".  

[Shaw66]

39 minutes ago, SCBills said:

 

I'd agree that, while surprising, us trading Milano wouldn't be shocking.  Could very well be that Edmunds hasn't been extended yet for accounting purposes and Bernard was drafted as a Milano replacement once he gets a year under his belt.  

 

Not sure it makes a ton of sense, in terms of asset allocation, to pay good money a Slot CB, MLB and OLB, while also spending a Day 2 pick on an OLB for a team that only has 3 of them on the field at a time.  

 

Caveat being the Bills saw the Bengals throw a 3-3-5 type defense at the Chiefs and said "we want to be able to do that with high talent players".  

As I've said often, the Bills have something in mind for Bernard.  They didn't draft him to play special teams.  Unless they think he's a generational player.  I think they want him to be a defensive starter; I just don't know where or how.  

 

Or in three years they want him to take Frazier's job, a la Kellen Moore.

Edited July 5, 2022 by Shaw66

[TheWeatherMan]

54 minutes ago, NewEra said:

 

I can’t recall ever commenting or leaving a reaction to any of your posts NOT DIRECTED TOWARDS ME.   I heard all caps can sometimes help with reading comprehension.  One could conclude that you’re lacking in that area based on your most recent reply. 
 

I respond to most people that quote me, it’s a common courtesy.  You quoted me, I responded to you.  
 

 

You just insulted me (lame, childish, unoriginal attempt at best) and then continue to conclude that you reply to my posts because you have common courtesy.  I feel like I’m having a convo with my bi-polar brother.  Bob…is that you? 

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, TheWeatherMan said:

You just insulted me (lame, childish, unoriginal attempt at best) and then continue to conclude that you reply to my posts because you have common courtesy.  I feel like I’m having a convo with my bi-polar brother.  Bob…is that you? 

Easy fix:   I’ll block you.  You block me and life will be good ok?  
 

But for that to happen, you’ll have to rid yourself of your obsession with me.  Easier said than done, I’m sure.  
 

You’ll be blocked after this post, while you’ll continue to quote me, roll your eyes at me and all that other fun stuff stalkers do.  
 

or you can be an adult….. asking too much, I know. 

[TheWeatherMan]

1 hour ago, NewEra said:

Easy fix:   I’ll block you.  You block me and life will be good ok?  
 

But for that to happen, you’ll have to rid yourself of your obsession with me.  Easier said than done, I’m sure.  
 

You’ll be blocked after this post, while you’ll continue to quote me, roll your eyes at me and all that other fun stuff stalkers do.  
 

or you can be an adult….. asking too much, I know. 

I told you 18 posts ago.  The only one obsessed with you is you.  Don’t be a pompous arrogant wanker to the members on this forum and we’d more than likely get along.  The hypocrisy of your often condescending posts targeting others (which started this childish charade) is what makes me roll my eyes and reply unfavorably to your posts.  You can block me or you could just not be a D to the people you disagree with or you can do both.  The choice is yours to make.  

[extrahammer]

On 7/2/2022 at 7:26 AM, TC in St. Louis said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjyNXYJVBJY

 

Joe Marino gets into some depth about Edmunds.  If you don't listen to "Locked on Bills," you should give it a try.  

 

Oh the network named after the egomaniac that started it? No thanks. 

[gobills404]

On 7/3/2022 at 1:17 PM, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Leonard has intercepted 11 passes (Edmunds 4),  forced 17 fumbles(just 2 for Edmunds) and recovered 7 fumbles(ZERO for Edmunds) with 15 sacks(5.5 for Edmunds) and 538 tackles(463).    

 

All done in 3 less games than Edmunds.

 

That's why Leonard is an All Pro every year........and Tremaine has never been.

 

 

Leonard is on track to be one of the greatest off-ball linebackers of all time. He’s the exception in todays NFL, not the standard. Nobody, not even Edmunds himself, is trying to say he’s as good as Leonard. Why not compare him to someone who (literally) plays in the exact same scheme, but has even more playmaking freedom than Edmunds?

 

Since 2018:

Edmunds - 4 INT, 2 FF, 5.5 sacks, 26 TFL, 463 tackles

Milano - 4 INT, 1 FF, 9.0 sacks, 38 TFL, 310 tackles

 

Not a big difference there if you ask me.

 

edit: eye roll = no argument

Edited July 5, 2022 by gobills404

[Shaw66]

6 minutes ago, gobills404 said:

 

Since 2018:

Edmunds - 4 INT, 2 FF, 5.5 sacks, 26 TFL, 463 tackles

Milano - 4 INT, 1 FF, 9.0 sacks, 38 TFL, 310 tackles

 

 

That would suggest Edmunds should get $10 million a year for four years, with $20 million guaranteed.   Very few people here would argue with that.  I doubt Edmunds will settle for that.   I'd guess that someone will offer $15 a year and $30 guaranteed.

 

If the Bills sign him for Milano money, they will be on the lookout for someone better.   

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

https://billswire.usatoday.com/2022/07/09/espn-buffalo-bills-tremaine-edmunds-top-10/?itm_source=parsely-api

 

ESPN: Bills' Tremaine Edmunds praised by players as top-10 LB 

 

Quote

Surveying more than 50 league executives, coaches, scouts and players, ESPN helped us name the 10 best at each spot on the field according to those in the game.

 

Quote

Buffalo Bills linebacker Tremaine Edmunds can be a bit of a polarizing player amongst the fan base.

Sometimes he looks like a first-round defender in the heart of Buffalo’s defense. Then there’s others when he leaves a bit to be desired.

 

[Shaw66]

1 hour ago, SlimShady'sSpaceForce said:

https://billswire.usatoday.com/2022/07/09/espn-buffalo-bills-tremaine-edmunds-top-10/?itm_source=parsely-api

 

ESPN: Bills' Tremaine Edmunds praised by players as top-10 LB 

 

 

 

A couple of interesting things about this article.   It cites the ESPN survey and says Edmunds is a top 10 linebacker.   People will have their opinions about that.  At the bottom it links to another article about the fact that ESPN did a similar survey on edge rushers.   Miller's apparently in the top 10.   So, top 10 edge rusher is worth a gazillion dollars, but a top 10 linebacker isn't worth big dollars?   It's a little puzzling how little people appreciate Edmunds. 

 

Second, the article says he was ranked sixth worst in passing yards allowed among linebackers.   But it also says something that I've been wondering about.   The article says that ranking is based on the "nearest defender."   That's different from someone evaluating his pass coverage skills.   And it's consistent with what I've been saying the podcast says.   The Bills play a lot of zone, and I think they ask Edmunds to cover a bigger zone than most linebackers.   They do that because he has the size, length, speed, and quickness to cover a bigger area, and it makes it tougher to throw outside and deep, because the other defenders have smaller zones to cover.   They also do it because, in general, giving up yards over the middle is less harmful than outside and deep.  The Bills invite teams to throw into Edmunds zone, in part because they know that Edmunds and others may give up a completion but will stop the big play.   So, it would make sense that Edmunds numbers as the nearest defender wouldn't be good.  

 

I'll say it before someone else does - that's all well and good until you play Mahomes, Hill, and Kelce with Andy Reid calling plays.  

 

I think Edmunds will be extended this summer. 

[YattaOkasan]

1 hour ago, Shaw66 said:

A couple of interesting things about this article.   It cites the ESPN survey and says Edmunds is a top 10 linebacker.   People will have their opinions about that.  At the bottom it links to another article about the fact that ESPN did a similar survey on edge rushers.   Miller's apparently in the top 10.   So, top 10 edge rusher is worth a gazillion dollars, but a top 10 linebacker isn't worth big dollars?   It's a little puzzling how little people appreciate Edmunds. 

 

Second, the article says he was ranked sixth worst in passing yards allowed among linebackers.   But it also says something that I've been wondering about.   The article says that ranking is based on the "nearest defender."   That's different from someone evaluating his pass coverage skills.   And it's consistent with what I've been saying the podcast says.   The Bills play a lot of zone, and I think they ask Edmunds to cover a bigger zone than most linebackers.   They do that because he has the size, length, speed, and quickness to cover a bigger area, and it makes it tougher to throw outside and deep, because the other defenders have smaller zones to cover.   They also do it because, in general, giving up yards over the middle is less harmful than outside and deep.  The Bills invite teams to throw into Edmunds zone, in part because they know that Edmunds and others may give up a completion but will stop the big play.   So, it would make sense that Edmunds numbers as the nearest defender wouldn't be good.  

 

I'll say it before someone else does - that's all well and good until you play Mahomes, Hill, and Kelce with Andy Reid calling plays.  

 

I think Edmunds will be extended this summer. 

Cover 1 had a lot of good stuff about nearest defender and why it’s flawed. I think they had an example of Milano missing a coverage resulting in edmunds being closest in coverage. I think the end of the TB game also fits into this category. Edmunds by being in the middle of the field is closest defender but it was someone else blown coverage.
 

Overall the coverage stats outside of man coverage are pretty difficult to parse. 

Edited July 10, 2022 by YattaOkasan

[gobills404]

5 hours ago, SlimShady'sSpaceForce said:

https://billswire.usatoday.com/2022/07/09/espn-buffalo-bills-tremaine-edmunds-top-10/?itm_source=parsely-api

 

ESPN: Bills' Tremaine Edmunds praised by players as top-10 LB 

 

 

 

McBeane: “Edmunds is good”

Bills players: “Edmunds is good”

opposing coaches coaches and players: “Edmunds is good”

Cover1 and Joe Marino: “Edmunds is good”

Armchair haters: “here’s why you’re actually wrong…”

 

Basically where we’re at now

 

 

[Big Turk]

Edmunds is going to be paid a lot more than most people believe when he hits free agency.

 

Doubt the Bills are going to be able to afford to keep him, but someone is going to pay a lot of money for his skills at deterring passes in the area he is due to wingspan and movement skills.

 

While he may be everyone's favorite whipping boy here, I suspect his value around the NFL is quite high.

[C.Biscuit97]

Still think he would be an absolute monster at OLB. You can’t force instincts At MLB. Some of the best MLBs I ever played with weren’t close to the best athletes. But they could just diagnose plays and beat guards to the ball carrier. At OLB, you don’t think as much and just react. I think Edmunds would be an all pro on the outside.

[Shaw66]

22 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Still think he would be an absolute monster at OLB. You can’t force instincts At MLB. Some of the best MLBs I ever played with weren’t close to the best athletes. But they could just diagnose plays and beat guards to the ball carrier. At OLB, you don’t think as much and just react. I think Edmunds would be an all pro on the outside.

As the seasons have gone by, I've come to disagree more and more with this point of view.  I think you're right - OLB is an instinctual position.  What I like about Milano is his instincts - he reads and reacts naturally in ways that we tend call instinctual.   But instincts is at the core of what so many of us don't like about Edmunds.  What we don't like is that he reads, processes, then reacts, and that's why he often seems to be late to the ball.  The coaches have said at various times over the past few seasons that they've encouraged Edmunds to stop thinking about it and just react.   He's never done that.   That's one reason, for example, that he's not very effective in the blitz and Milano is.  

 

The fact is that by putting Edmunds in the middle, the Bills cover his inability to react instinctively.  On the outside, he still would read, think, and react, and that would be deadly out there.   In middle, he doesn't have to be the guy to make the play - he can be a guy who helps everyone else make the play.   He can misread a play and still recover to help.  

 

Yes, he has the physical attributes to be a monster outside linebacker, but he's never shown the instinctiveness to play out there.  

[NewEra]

McD:  Tremaine, just stand in the middle of the field and be big.  
 

tremaine:  ok Coach!

[Shaw66]

17 minutes ago, NewEra said:

McD:  Tremaine, just stand in the middle of the field and be big.  
 

tremaine:  ok Coach!

And run around a little bit, to make the defense wonder what you're doing!

 

Ok, coach.  

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]