BillsFanForever19 Posted May 10, 2005 Posted May 10, 2005 No matter what TD feed us, I think it's pretty obvious that Mularkey is not too keen on Lindell. Anyone who is keen on Lindell is obviously blind. If Nugent was still around, I would have liked to have seen us grab him. But it wasn't in the cards. So what are our other options? Owen Pochman and Joe Rheem. The fact that there are 3 kickers on the roster alone says something. Buffalo always brings in someone else during training camp to push the kicker a little and help out. But to my recelection (sp?), I don't remember ever having 3 going into training camp. Unfortunately, all one needs to do is read this article and look at the stats to see that Pochman is DEFINITELY not the answer. http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?...SPGH92JTUD1.DTL So what about Joe Rheem? Well, most draft places have him rated among the top prospects available; but usually no higher than 5 (Behind Nugent, Tyler Jones, Dave Rayner, and Jonathan Nichols). Two of those four men were drafted. So the question remains: Is he "camp fodder" or is he a legitimate contender? Most kickers in the league go undrafted and are given a shot. I think it's time we do the same. I for one hope that Rheem can overcome a couple of his negatives and beat out Lindell. Here is some info on him: http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/playerpro...k/joerheem.html http://www.nfl.com/draft/profiles/2005/rheem_joe The knock on him is he is inconsistent passed the 45 yard mark. Inside of that, he's money in the bank. If he can work on that, he's an immense upgrade from Lindell; who is automatic from nowhere.
R. Rich Posted May 10, 2005 Posted May 10, 2005 They'll probably wait to see who looks the most consistent during training camp/preseason.
Fake-Fat Sunny Posted May 10, 2005 Posted May 10, 2005 I'm pretty sure he is camp fodder. As much as fans do not like Lindell, and it is quite obvious the Bills were displeased (to day the least) he missed a chip shot against Pitts, he is still by far it seems to be me a better shot than Rheem of contributing to this team. 1. Though FGs are the highest profile job of the PK, the job he will definitely have to do and do well game-in and game out is kickoff. AS MUCH AS FOLKS HATE TO ADMIT IT LINDELL WAS OUTSTANDING AT THIS FACET OF THE GAME LAST YEAR. Folks may moon over the thought of Nugent or Janikowski booming them for touchbacks and lament Lindell has not shown the leg strength he was advertised to have but the statistical indication of his effectiveness is that there were kicks returned for TDs against the Bills last year and very few substantial returns. A big part of this was strong tackling by the ST, but its impossible that part of this also was not Lindell getting Moorman like hang time on his kickoffs and Lindell kicking them when and where the return team expected him to kick it. If Lindell was told by April to do a shorter kickoff to the left because the return guy tended to line up deeper and to the right, that is where the kick went (not a bad trick in the winds of the Ralph) and Lindell was simply a great part of a successful coverage effort. I doubt any rookie is going to equal his performance, 2. The biggest downside of Lindell's game is that MM seems to have no confidence in him beyond 40 yards. This actually worked out fine last year as even when the Bills took 3 points off the board when they TO'ed a 40+ kick Lindell made, they translated the 4th and 1 into aq 40+ yard run for a TD by WN after a great fake of the QB sneak by Bledsoe. The Bills are going to simply demand of Lindell that he improve and while this is not for sure (or maybe even likely) it is not outrageous: A. Lindell has had good years statistically before with SEA and that is why TD over-reached to sign him in the first place. B. Lindell was far better statistically in FGs made last year than in 2003. Part of this is because he went from horrendous as a PK in 1003 to merely inadequate in 2004 but at least his overall game is moving in the right direction. C. He got no official credit for them because of some TO calls by the Bills, but he actually did hit two 40+ FGs which were called back last year. We did not get 3 so he correctly gets no credit on his record. However, one cannot totally ignore the reality of these kicks. 3. In addition to the most important part of his game which is FGs, and the most substantial part of his game which is kickoffs. another important part is onside kicks. Its tough to measure because when you resort to them usually your back is against the wall and chances of success are small, but a team is going to have to do it 1 or 2 times a season and the game will be on the line. Lindell had 3 shots at onside last year and did well in two of them. He did a masterful kick after halftime of one game (a time where our back was not against the wall) and Lindell not only joined the ST in not tipping the opponents off, but he kicked it with the perfect speed and pace to assure it traveled the required 10 yards before any Bill hit an opponent and he made the recovery himself. He made a nice kick in one of out losses, but actually Rashad Baker missed his chance to make a nice recovery of a well kickedball that took the required hop to give us a shot. The third kick was not executed well and the opponents recovered. So I agree with you that it would be nice to have Nugent (though actually I think our kick coverage would have went backwards until he learned to be a vet) but I (and I think the Bills braintrust) have not given up on him yet and actually think he is our best and there is even a reasonable chance he will become the kicker we want. Actually, it does not matter anyway, since i doubt the Bills cut him and carry 500+ cut deadspace for doing this and TD could have to admit his error in asserting that good kickers are a dime a dozen when he cut Christie.
brihs2005 Posted May 10, 2005 Posted May 10, 2005 I wasn't one of the major voices on this board saying draft nugent, but i think he would have been a substantial upgrade over lindell. That being said, i thing Rian is the best option that is available to us right now. If there was a game changing kicker on the market, i think he would be in a bills uniform right now... but really, is there any kicker that is out there that is worth taking any cap hit from cutting lindell..
brihs2005 Posted May 10, 2005 Posted May 10, 2005 Why not Doug Brien? 333065[/snapback] According to Clump, if we cut lindell we have to pay him 450K (give or take a bit). Is Brien 450K better than Lindell...?
IBTG81 Posted May 10, 2005 Posted May 10, 2005 According to Clump, if we cut lindell we have to pay him 450K (give or take a bit). Is Brien 450K better than Lindell...? 333066[/snapback] Yes. Brien was good last year, other than his Pittsburgh game.
Fixxxer Posted May 10, 2005 Posted May 10, 2005 Pochman (Frankfurt Galaxy) has a hip injury and was placed on IR in week one of NFLE. I don't know how ready will he be for T.C. http://www.nfleurope.com/news/story/8364507
Alaska Darin Posted May 10, 2005 Posted May 10, 2005 I'd still like to know what'd have happened had Nugent been available when our first pick came around. My gut tells me he'd be wearing red, white, and blue.
FTW_BillsFan Posted May 10, 2005 Posted May 10, 2005 I've seen Rheem kick and he has really improved over the years on kicking field goals. Rheem can hit 50's, but not sure about consistancy. I bet he has longer range than Lindell. I really wasn't too impressed with his kickoffs at KSU though. We shall see, probably fodder.
Fake-Fat Sunny Posted May 10, 2005 Posted May 10, 2005 I'd still like to know what'd have happened had Nugent been available when our first pick came around. My gut tells me he'd be wearing red, white, and blue. 333075[/snapback] It certainly would have been a great marketing move greeted by us Bills faithful with a degree of excitement not unlike when Drew came to town promising a reversal of a 3-13 season. My guess is that it would have turned out like a reversal of the drew situation with Nugent going through the usual rookie struggles of learning the pro game but getting better with experience. Nugent sounds like a real guy rather than the quirkyness you usually get with even the best pro kicker. The test for Nugent here would have been how he dealt with the media and some fans turning on him as soon as he missed a critical kick (which virtually all kickers do) or he struggled a bit learning the winds of the Ralph on kickoffs. If he survives the post Norwood hopes many folks would put in him and the inevitable comparisons when a miss came along. He would have done fine. The first year would have been rough though at some point.
kasper13 Posted May 10, 2005 Posted May 10, 2005 What we will do on September 12th is yell and scream and cry and complain when Lindell misses a 32 yarder that would have won the opener against the Texans.
BillsGuyInMalta Posted May 10, 2005 Posted May 10, 2005 At this point, would it really hurt to bring Christie into camp to give Lindell a kick in the butt? (Or a kick out the door, which would be my preference)
Albany,n.y. Posted May 10, 2005 Posted May 10, 2005 I've seen Rheem kick and he has really improved over the years on kicking field goals. Rheem can hit 50's, but not sure about consistancy. I bet he has longer range than Lindell. I really wasn't too impressed with his kickoffs at KSU though. We shall see, probably fodder. 333082[/snapback] Maybe not. His improvement means he's a solid K, but he's still inconsistent on kickoffs. Pochman (for KOs) & Rheem combined cost less than Lindell if Rian is released after 6/1.
R. Rich Posted May 10, 2005 Posted May 10, 2005 What we will do on September 12th is yell and scream and cry and complain when Lindell misses a 32 yarder that would have won the opener against the Texans. 333087[/snapback] Sure will. It would mean that either our offense was so much better by the new players that we can now score points in bunches BUT our defense can't stop anyone....or it could mean that despite the attention paid to skill players again this offseason (and the near neglect-again-of the offensive line, if nothing else is done between now and the start of the season), we still can't score even though our defense is still playing lights out. Either way, there would be plenty of yelling, screaming, crying, and complaining.
UConn James Posted May 11, 2005 Posted May 11, 2005 I'd still like to know what'd have happened had Nugent been available when our first pick came around. My gut tells me he'd be wearing red, white, and blue. 333075[/snapback] I think someone posted after the draft that a secretarial person who was working in the war room said TD and TM were indeed on the phones trying to move up before the Jests to pick Nugent, but couldn't get it done.
Bob in SC Posted May 11, 2005 Posted May 11, 2005 At this point, would it really hurt to bring Christie into camp to give Lindell a kick in the butt? (Or a kick out the door, which would be my preference) 333104[/snapback] Excellent idea. I'd love to see it. Christie in the twilight of his career would be an improvement. However, TD has too much pride (arrogance) to ever reach into the past for a solution. Lindell will be the man, for better or for worse.
plenzmd1 Posted May 11, 2005 Posted May 11, 2005 Still pissed at TD for not signing Nick Novack at 7.02 Sunday after the draft. Granted I am a die hard Terps fan, but this kid is clutch. I am hoping that Edinger gains back his form and the Bears cut Nick, but I think Bears fans hate him now more than we despise Lindell
Fake-Fat Sunny Posted May 11, 2005 Posted May 11, 2005 Maybe not. His improvement means he's a solid K, but he's still inconsistent on kickoffs. Pochman (for KOs) & Rheem combined cost less than Lindell if Rian is released after 6/1. 333108[/snapback] If Lindell is released after June 1st makes a marginal difference than if he is released before June 1st. 475k becones deadspace allocated to the Bills 2005 salary cao whether he is released or not. He has already been paid a bonus which was prorated over the full length of his contract which ends this year. Add this amount to the vet minimum contract of his replacement and that is how much we are allocating to the kicker position this year
Mickey Posted May 11, 2005 Posted May 11, 2005 No matter what TD feed us, I think it's pretty obvious that Mularkey is not too keen on Lindell. Anyone who is keen on Lindell is obviously blind. If Nugent was still around, I would have liked to have seen us grab him. But it wasn't in the cards. So what are our other options? Owen Pochman and Joe Rheem. The fact that there are 3 kickers on the roster alone says something. Buffalo always brings in someone else during training camp to push the kicker a little and help out. But to my recelection (sp?), I don't remember ever having 3 going into training camp. Unfortunately, all one needs to do is read this article and look at the stats to see that Pochman is DEFINITELY not the answer. http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?...SPGH92JTUD1.DTL So what about Joe Rheem? Well, most draft places have him rated among the top prospects available; but usually no higher than 5 (Behind Nugent, Tyler Jones, Dave Rayner, and Jonathan Nichols). Two of those four men were drafted. So the question remains: Is he "camp fodder" or is he a legitimate contender? Most kickers in the league go undrafted and are given a shot. I think it's time we do the same. I for one hope that Rheem can overcome a couple of his negatives and beat out Lindell. Here is some info on him: http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/playerpro...k/joerheem.html http://www.nfl.com/draft/profiles/2005/rheem_joe The knock on him is he is inconsistent passed the 45 yard mark. Inside of that, he's money in the bank. If he can work on that, he's an immense upgrade from Lindell; who is automatic from nowhere. 333007[/snapback] Three PK's are the standard for training camp. One is simply fodder and one is there to push the starter. In my mind, Lindell is the fodder.
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