Did Jim Kelly / Bruce Smith save the Bills?

[Greg S]

2 minutes ago, Whites Bay said:

I believe there's a lot of truth to this.  Obviously, I wasn't a fly on the wall at OBD during the time, but I remember a LOT of buzz about Rodgers.  That he'd pulled a fast one on ol' Ralph, Bills fans would still support the team in Toronto, etc.  And then *poof* - the younger man passed away first.  Weird.

 

 

 

Thank God for Terry and Kim Pegula. Also I would add Kathy Hochul. She may have given the Bills a sweetheart deal at taxpayer expense but the Bills long term future in WNY is secure.

[corta765]

I would say this Kelly/Bruce/Polian helped rise the team out of the doldrums to a level that made them mythical in a sense with four super bowls in four years, K Gun innovation, Bruce dominating, HOU comeback etc... That was probably what also helped to cement the fan base as a wild passionate group too. By the fourth SB heck 3rd people were done with Buffalo. The fans basically through the middle finger up and said were here deal with it same as the team. Without that success does the team move? Probably not but by the same token without all that winning and success if they just were a fringe playoff team from time to time, then they basically are the Detroit Lions or the St Louis Cardinals. Maybe you don't have the passion to keep the team or the history etc.. of people leaning on great Bills teams that do bring great memories. Much of the national sports media throughout the drought wanted to see Buffalo get good again because it was good for the sport and the passion of the Bills fans was respected. That doesn't happen without Kelly/Bruce/Polian etc.. yea they never won a title but in a sense they became mythical for their perseverance and later Kelly with cancer.

 

So yea I think it did play a role and without the Bills successful and that history maybee nationally the attitude is well its just Buffalo whatever. Whereas with the success your moving a franchise that played a significant role in NFL history both good and bad fortune wise. The 80/90s saw some historic franchises move that you otherwise wouldn't have thought ever happen (CLE/BAL/HOU) so I do not ever assume we would've been protected.

[corta765]

On 6/25/2022 at 7:05 PM, Buffalo Boy said:

All the stars came together during that time between players, coaches and GM . To me, it was the exception to who we usually were . Wilson caught lightning in a bottle and road it out.

Most times in sports it is this combination more then anything else. I do believe some orgs are healthier then others and the owner stays the heck beck which allows the FO and coaches to just do their job which eliminates overlap/division. The Ravens I have felt are the best run org in football as they have won going on 3 decades and won a variety of ways without having a true franchise elite guy until recently with Lamar. The 49ers in the last decade went from great to awful/tirefire and back to great basically because ownership stayed out, got involved, and they stayed out as they hired some smart people. They are a focal point of literally what to do and what not to do haha

 

But yea Ralph finally hired a smart personnel guy in Polian and stayed back long enough for it to turn up. I think he even said firing Polian was his biggest mistake and while Butler was good you could slowly see things change as smart guys like AJ Smith left. Owners are very wealthy and powerful people who like to have a say as they are use to that. The best are smart enough to understand they do not understand and let the people in charge do what they should. The Pegula's got a little lucky with McD and Beane, but I do think they also saw the issues with people like Whaley/Rex and getting involved.

[US Egg]

The Kelly/Smith era saved Bills fans.

[oldmanfan]

On 6/26/2022 at 4:26 PM, Nextmanup said:

Yeah, that lasted for a while, then ended.

 

What truly saved this organization was the death of Ralph Wilson.

 

Absolutely nothing was going to change until that happened, as I told everyone I knew for nearly 20 years...

 

 

When Ralph got older, after the Super Bowl years, my impression was always that it was Littman that was the issue.  Maybe even earlier.

[NoHuddleKelly12]

3 hours ago, I am the egg man said:

The Kelly/Smith era saved Bills fans.

And birthed many new ones myself included 🙈. Could’ve saved myself a generation of pain thereafter, but now I think I’ve truly earned my stripes by now. (LAMP disclaimer)

[skibum]

The Bills were definitely a laughingstock through much of the '80s. Not just bad, but terrible. But I don't believe there was ever talk of moving the team out of Buffalo, at least not to my knowledge. But then again, I'm not much older than you. 

 

So, Smith and Kelly and company restored a lot of good will and excitement, but I don't think they actually saved the team. 

Edited June 28, 2022 by skibum

[Sierra Foothills]

On 6/25/2022 at 1:58 PM, SoMAn said:

Actually, the success of the Flutie-led Bills of the late 90’s was probably more of factor in keeping the Bills in WNY. 
 

I don’t recall all the details, but I believe the renewed interest, increased attendance, enthusiasm, etc was integral to funding for the necessary stadium renovations and extended lease. 
Anyone  remember just how that went down? 

 

On 6/26/2022 at 9:16 AM, coloradobillsfan said:

IIRC the Bills needed to sell a number of luxury boxes to trigger the new lease

 

In 1998 the Bills needed to sell $11 million in luxury seating (suites and club seating) in order to trigger an extension of the lease until 2006 (?) and also stadium renovations. That summer a business consortium called "Business Backs the Bills" was formed to market and sell the seating.

 

The problem was the Bills started out 1-3 under QB Rob Johnson and the luxury seating was not moving. No one was buying a losing product.

 

Then in week 5 against the Colts, Johnson suffered a rib injury in the first quarter and Doug Flutie came in and led the the Bills to victory, scoring 21 2nd half points. The Bills went 9-3 the rest of the way and with Flutie Mania intoxicating the community the luxury seating started selling like hotcakes.

 

Would the Bills have sold the luxury seating with a 4-12 team?

 

 

[corta765]

11 hours ago, skibum said:

The Bills were definitely a laughingstock through much of the '80s. Not just bad, but terrible. But I don't believe there was ever talk of moving the team out of Buffalo, at least not to my knowledge. But then again, I'm not much older than you. 

 

So, Smith and Kelly and company restored a lot of good will and excitement, but I don't think they actually saved the team. 

 

The early 90s started the moving/new stadium craze that sucked up the NFL. Had the Bills stayed the way they were in the 80s they 100% would've been pulled into that. Figure that Raiders, Rams, Cardinals, Oilers, Browns all did move while Pats, Bengals, and Seahawks all were at risk of moving without new stadiums being made. Buffalo would've been in that crew of at least talks and the stadium renovation/club seats in the late 90s was crucial to them staying in Buffalo. Someone made this point earlier but Flutie and crew in the late 90s was actually more critical in some senses as people got really excited when the stadium reno talks were happening which made it easier to absorb.

[May Day 10]

On 6/25/2022 at 4:58 PM, SoMAn said:

Actually, the success of the Flutie-led Bills of the late 90’s was probably more of factor in keeping the Bills in WNY. 
 

I don’t recall all the details, but I believe the renewed interest, increased attendance, enthusiasm, etc was integral to funding for the necessary stadium renovations and extended lease. 
Anyone  remember just how that went down? 

 

This was exactly it.  Late-90s, the lease was expiring and there were some tough negotiations.  The team was flailing a bit post-Superbowl years.  They needed that whole business backs the bills thing and/or a certain level of commitment for the new premium club seats.

 

Flutie came along and zapped everyone with energy as well as kindled a Canadian interest.  They were able to hit their goals and got the new lease agreement.

 

 

 

Fast forward to the mid/late 00s.  Our owner, Ralph Wilson was at an advanced age.  We do not have billionaires here so much.  You sense the NFL would rather leave for richer pastures.  The Bills outsourced a home game every season to Ted Rogers (basically Comcast of Canada).  That was seen as a trial run for the NFL/Bills to eventually sell to Rogers and move to a humungous international city in Toronto.   In about 2009, I gave the Bills about a 5% chance to remain in Buffalo for 5 years.   Rogers passed away quickly after the deal, and they completely missed the boat on pricing and interest.  Mr Wilson continued to plug along!

 

The lease expired and Wilson did not want to sell the team while alive.  They signed a new lease with cosmetic renovations with a heavy non-relocation agreement.  Mr Wilson passed away before the paint was dry on the new renovations, which would make it very pricey to buy, relocate, pay the Non-relo price, and build a new stadium.  Meanwhile, pegula came onto the scene locally, adopted the city, and bought the team basically with cash.

Edited June 28, 2022 by May Day 10

[corta765]

2 hours ago, May Day 10 said:

 

This was exactly it.  Late-90s, the lease was expiring and there were some tough negotiations.  The team was flailing a bit post-Superbowl years.  They needed that whole business backs the bills thing and/or a certain level of commitment for the new premium club seats.

 

Flutie came along and zapped everyone with energy as well as kindled a Canadian interest.  They were able to hit their goals and got the new lease agreement.

 

 

 

Fast forward to the mid/late 00s.  Our owner, Ralph Wilson was at an advanced age.  We do not have billionaires here so much.  You sense the NFL would rather leave for richer pastures.  The Bills outsourced a home game every season to Ted Rogers (basically Comcast of Canada).  That was seen as a trial run for the NFL/Bills to eventually sell to Rogers and move to a humungous international city in Toronto.   In about 2009, I gave the Bills about a 5% chance to remain in Buffalo for 5 years.   Rogers passed away quickly after the deal, and they completely missed the boat on pricing and interest.  Mr Wilson continued to plug along!

 

The lease expired and Wilson did not want to sell the team while alive.  They signed a new lease with cosmetic renovations with a heavy non-relocation agreement.  Mr Wilson passed away before the paint was dry on the new renovations, which would make it very pricey to buy, relocate, pay the Non-relo price, and build a new stadium.  Meanwhile, pegula came onto the scene locally, adopted the city, and bought the team basically with cash.

 

This is super well articulated and covers everything well. I would add timeframe mattered here big time. Besides Ralph and the Pegulas etc.. the city of Buffalo and NYS was not in the position in the 2000s to do much to help keep the team here. Buffalo is far from a perfect community but the economy and population in general has stabilization where there is some growth and NYS in the last decade has shown at least a little interest in helping the cities outside NYC. Again not perfect but I think even if you had a Pegula in 2007 trying to keep the team it would've been an uphill battle at that time.

 

And year the Rodgers piece is 1000% on. Ralph would've sold and maybe after a year or two they were heading up there.

Edited June 28, 2022 by corta765

[machine gun kelly]

19 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

When Ralph got older, after the Super Bowl years, my impression was always that it was Littman that was the issue.  Maybe even earlier.

Vic stated as much that Ralph had a tough choice to either fire Polian or Littman.  He chose Littman, his money guy.  It was a bad mistake.  The team went downhill from there.

[RiotAct]

On 6/25/2022 at 3:33 PM, T master said:

 

 

Trump was rumored to be in the bidding at 1 point & time but not sure what his thoughts were about keeping the team in B/lo was but he is all abut making money so if he would have purchased the team & moved it to make more money it wouldn't surprise me at all .

 

oh he 110% would have.  No doubt in my mind.   (Same with Bon Jovi)

[Buffalo716]

On 6/25/2022 at 6:54 PM, Beast said:

 

If you think a new owner (not the Pegula's) wouldn't have broke that lease promptly to move the Bills I think you are a bit naive.

It’s been reported multiple times that the Wilson family had multiple clauses not allowing relocation 

 

Clause 3(b) in the non-relocation agreement states, in part, that without approval of both the state-appointed public corporation that owns the Ralph and the county in which the stadium sits, the club shall not "sell, assign or otherwise transfer the team to any person who, to the Bills' knowledge, has an intention to relocate, transfer or otherwise move the team ..."

The clause also prevents the team from so much as entertaining, soliciting or negotiating any offer or proposal to relocate the team.
 

So clearly all the San Antonio talk was also fiction because The pegulas can’t even entertain any Relocation talks until 2023