Roe vs Wade Overturned

[Andy1]

The headline for the data from the same survey could read “Strong Majority of Americans Think Abortion Should be Legal”. Clearly, most people are somewhere in the middle on this issue. Meanwhile, many republican states are going to full bans, (except for health/ save life of mother) some with no exceptions for rape.

Edited July 11, 2022 by Andy1

[SoCal Deek]

21 minutes ago, Andy1 said:

The headline for the data from the same survey could read “Strong Majority of Americans Think Abortion Should be Legal”. Clearly, most people are somewhere in the middle on this issue. Meanwhile, many republican states are going to full bans, (except for health/ save life of mother) some with no exceptions for rape.

And the American people will work it out. Patience….grasshopper.

[T&C]

Looks like the 10 year old's rape and pregnancy is a farce... there is no record of anything anywhere, at all. No report, no investigation... nothing.

[ChiGoose]

Doctors Report Compromising Care Out of Fear of Texas Abortion Law

 

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Doctors worried about getting sued under Texas’ restrictive abortion law have delayed treating pregnancy complications until patients’ lives were in danger, according to a paper from the Texas Policy Evaluation Project.

 

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Although Texas’ abortion law contains an exemption to save the life of the pregnant patient, doctors said it was unevenly and insufficiently applied.

 

“People have to be on death’s door to qualify for maternal exemptions” to Texas’ current law, one maternal-fetal medicine specialist told the paper’s authors.

 

Doctors reported that they have postponed abortion care until a patient’s health or pregnancy complication has deteriorated to the point that their life was in danger, including multiple cases where patients were sent home, only to return once they were in sepsis.

 

And even when patients were able to qualify for an abortion under the life-saving exemption, some doctors report being unable to get nurses or anesthesiologists to assist on these procedures for fear that they will be seen as “aiding and abetting” in an abortion, which is prohibited by the law.

 

In some cases, doctors said they have avoided standard abortion methods, like a dilation and evacuation, and instead used less common surgical methods or induction to avoid risking a lawsuit.

 

“Physicians have said that they don’t feel like they can offer the standard medical interventions that are the standard of care across the United States,” said Whitney Arey, the lead researcher on the paper. “That’s resulted in people using less common or outdated practices because it might not be construed as performing an abortion.”

 

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All of the doctors interviewed said their hospitals have prohibited multifetal reduction, by which doctors preserve the health of the pregnancy by reducing the number of fetuses a patient is carrying.

 

Clinicians also reported confusion over whether they can even counsel patients on abortion as an option or direct them to out-of-state clinics.

 

A 39-year-old woman told TxPEP that her doctor would not discuss abortion options with her after she received a significant fetal diagnosis.

 

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Another patient whose water broke at 19 weeks of pregnancy had to decide between waiting to see if she could access care in Texas or getting on a plane to get an abortion elsewhere. She ended up taking the risk of flying out of state while experiencing a significant health emergency.

 

Yup, the solution is definitely to trust that state legislatures will find a common sense solution that does not cause confusion or endanger lives. Because that's definitely working out well in Texas...

[B-Man]

 

 

 

Good News.

 

 

PLANNED PARENTHOOD HARDEST HIT: 

 

FDA to consider first-ever nonprescription birth control pill.

 

 

https://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2022/07/11/fda-first-nonprescription-birth-control-pill-HRA-Pharma-Opill-over-the-counter/4651657558815/

 

 

[SoCal Deek]

9 hours ago, ChiGoose said:

Doctors Report Compromising Care Out of Fear of Texas Abortion Law

 

 

 

 

 

Yup, the solution is definitely to trust that state legislatures will find a common sense solution that does not cause confusion or endanger lives. Because that's definitely working out well in Texas...

And your solution is to have society live by only the rules that ChiGoose wants us to? Patience…this will work itself out. 

[ChiGoose]

37 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

And your solution is to have society live by only the rules that ChiGoose wants us to? Patience…this will work itself out. 

 

Nah, just keep the guardrails of Roe and Casey in place.

 

Also, why don't you go tell those people who have to spend money on plane tickets just to get proper care to be patient? 

Edited July 13, 2022 by ChiGoose

[SoCal Deek]

24 minutes ago, ChiGoose said:

 

Nah, just keep the guardrails of Roe and Casey in place.

 

Also, why don't you go tell those people who have to spend money on plane tickets just to get proper care to be patient? 

Might I suggest that you start a fund to help them while America works through this transition? Again…settle down. I trust the American people to work out the details.  

[ChiGoose]

9 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Might I suggest that you start a fund to help them while America works through this transition? Again…settle down. I trust the American people to work out the details.  

 

There already are funds, and I do donate, but that's a wholly inadequate response.

 

It must be nice to be able to hand wave this away while people are suffering consequences of the decision you support.

 

It also must be nice to have confidence that the same legislatures that are passing laws that cause confusion and prevent people from getting the healthcare they need will be suddenly inspired with divine knowledge on how to fix this when, in reality, they are far more likely to make things worse.

[SoCal Deek]

12 minutes ago, ChiGoose said:

 

There already are funds, and I do donate, but that's a wholly inadequate response.

 

It must be nice to be able to hand wave this away while people are suffering consequences of the decision you support.

 

It also must be nice to have confidence that the same legislatures that are passing laws that cause confusion and prevent people from getting the healthcare they need will be suddenly inspired with divine knowledge on how to fix this when, in reality, they are far more likely to make things worse.

Well it must be nice to live in the fantasy nation that you’d like to exist. Democracy isn’t always easy but it’s far better than living in a nation where unelected judges, clergy, or dictators control your life.
 

I sincerely applaud you for putting your money where your heart  is. And so I also assume you can imagine how pro-life Americans felt for the last half century when their money was used, without their consent mind you, to facilitate abortions.

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

11 minutes ago, ChiGoose said:

 

There already are funds, and I do donate, but that's a wholly inadequate response.

 

It must be nice to be able to hand wave this away while people are suffering consequences of the decision you support.

 

It also must be nice to have confidence that the same legislatures that are passing laws that cause confusion and prevent people from getting the healthcare they need will be suddenly inspired with divine knowledge on how to fix this when, in reality, they are far more likely to make things worse.

Someone is always suffering, Goose, with govt sitting idly by.   There’s no massive movement afoot to arrange travel or provide taxpayer funded support to people with serious illness—breast cancer, heart disease, diabetes— struggling to survive.  It seems logical that in a country with considerable wealth, with all the support that the pro-choice folks have, grassroots organizations sponsored by wealthy benefactors and private donations could take a substantial bite out of costs of travel and treatment.  

 


 

 

[ChiGoose]

10 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

And so I also assume you can imagine how pro-life Americans felt for the last half century when their money was used, without their consent mind you, to facilitate abortions.

 

It's hard to imagine that those crusading against Roe actually cared about being "pro-life" since most of them also opposed policies that would actually reduce the number of abortions (comprehensive sex ed, easy access to contraceptives) or help people support a kid so they wouldn't even have to consider it (universal healthcare, paid parental leave, child tax credit).

 

I do not know you, so I am not accusing you of being one of these people. But something that is incredibly frustrating to me is the "pro-life" contingent that supported policies that made it harder to avoid an unwanted pregnancy, harder to manage a pregnancy, and harder to raise a child; all while supporting a singular policy that they knew (or should have known) would not end abortions, but would only make abortions less safe, and would endanger women's health and even their lives.

 

If they truly wanted a common ground, something to make it easier to have kids, less likely for people to have abortions, they would have found a willing partner in many people like myself. Proven methods of avoiding unwanted pregnancies (unlike failed "abstinence only" policies), Pro-natalist policies to encourage kids, to give families the support they need, to ensure that a woman's healthcare needs are met. But they generally oppose such policies. It's hard to draw any conclusion other than the fact that it's not actually about stopping abortions. It's not actually about promoting life. If it were, Roe wouldn't be necessary because we would have a robust system that prevented unwanted pregnancies while making it easier for people to have kids they want. If the vocal "Pro-Life" contingent actually cared about life and actually cared about reducing abortions, Roe wouldn't be necessary.

 

They don't want that and it tells you everything you need to know about them.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

So if you have a bunch of sex, but don’t want kids, and aren’t into birth control then you risk having to travel? 
 

seems like this could get to a compromise 

[Andy1]

1 hour ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

grassroots organizations sponsored by wealthy benefactors and private donations could take a substantial bite out of costs of travel and treatment.

Out of state travel for abortion or national ban is what the religious zealots are going for next. We are headed for state vs state legal battles as conservative states try to prevent their citizens from traveling to democrat states for abortions and try to prevent shipping of medications for at home abortions. Abortion medication will become part of the illegal drug trafficking in those states. Dem states won’t share information with anti abortion states. No one has any idea how this will turn out. More cases like headed to Supreme Court. There is nothing in the Constitution that guarantees the right to travel. Anti abortion states will try to sue doctors and others doing legal abortions on out of state patients in Dem states. 
 

The last time there were state vs state legal battles about the movement of people was during the slavery era when southern states wanted their run away slaves back. Maybe we are headed towards an Underground Railroad to help women move north for abortions. This is far from a settled issue.

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

8 hours ago, Andy1 said:

Out of state travel for abortion or national ban is what the religious zealots are going for next. We are headed for state vs state legal battles as conservative states try to prevent their citizens from traveling to democrat states for abortions and try to prevent shipping of medications for at home abortions. Abortion medication will become part of the illegal drug trafficking in those states. Dem states won’t share information with anti abortion states. No one has any idea how this will turn out. More cases like headed to Supreme Court. There is nothing in the Constitution that guarantees the right to travel. Anti abortion states will try to sue doctors and others doing legal abortions on out of state patients in Dem states. 
 

The last time there were state vs state legal battles about the movement of people was during the slavery era when southern states wanted their run away slaves back. Maybe we are headed towards an Underground Railroad to help women move north for abortions. This is far from a settled issue.

For every religious zealot, there is an abortion zealot—-taxpayer-funded, on demand, up through birth and in some cases beyond.   We have to recognize this reality, and it’s nothing new. 
 

The opportunity exists to deal with the issue on a national level at this time.  Of course, it’s existed since R v W was decided.  The common narrative is that the concept of option to abort is very popular societally, and I believe that to be true. The only question for non-zealots is “to what point”.  There will never be a solution to suit all situations, and in the case of “abortion until ———— except in cases of ——-“ people will still seek out services in violation of the rules.  It’s the nature of people. 
 

As for borders and underground railroads, perhaps you should turn the lights on. We have between 12,000,000 and 22,000,000 people in the country that have crossed borders in violation of laws and regulation.  You and I could agree to meet at the Applebees in Des Moines a week from Tuesday, start at our respective locations and have no issues in travel between here and there.   Is it true that some extreme politician might author legislation that would impact that freedom? Yes, of course.  Power corrupts. People are crazy.  
 

Time will tell, but handwringing about a country that resembles the United States pre-1861 seems quite extreme and frankly, disrespectful to the memories of the people who lived through that madness.  
 

In the meantime, my suggestion about those willing to bring time, effort and money to assist those in need seems the best alternative during these turbulent political times.  

 

 

[SoCal Deek]

Americans have always moved, driven, or flown to reach a destination that affords them the opportunity to do things they cannot do where they live. And most of those things were frivolous (drink, gamble, smoke pot, buy firecrackers or medications). The Left’s hysteria about this issue is ridiculous. Let the process work itself out. Trust the Process! 

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

11 hours ago, Andy1 said:

Out of state travel for abortion or national ban is what the religious zealots are going for next. We are headed for state vs state legal battles as conservative states try to prevent their citizens from traveling to democrat states for abortions and try to prevent shipping of medications for at home abortions. Abortion medication will become part of the illegal drug trafficking in those states. Dem states won’t share information with anti abortion states. No one has any idea how this will turn out. More cases like headed to Supreme Court. There is nothing in the Constitution that guarantees the right to travel. Anti abortion states will try to sue doctors and others doing legal abortions on out of state patients in Dem states. 
 

The last time there were state vs state legal battles about the movement of people was during the slavery era when southern states wanted their run away slaves back. Maybe we are headed towards an Underground Railroad to help women move north for abortions. This is far from a settled issue.

https://citizenfreepress.com/breaking/liz-warren-we-need-to-shut-down-pregnancy-crisis-centers/

 

Zealot, Andy?

[ChiGoose]

US abortion ruling threatens access to arthritis drug

 

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When Alabama nurse Melissa went to pick up her regular prescription for rheumatoid arthritis last week, she was told the drug was "on hold" while the pharmacist checked she wasn't going to use it to induce an abortion.

 

"He said, 'Well I have to verify if you're on any contraceptives to prevent pregnancy.' The hell you do," she recalled thinking.

 

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...[A] 20-year-old university student from Ohio, said she has had a methotrexate prescription since 2020 to treat her lupus, which affects her kidney and liver and causes joint pain.

 

A pharmacist at a national chain told her they were "no longer accepting prescriptions for methotrexate unless it was for the FDA-approved use of (treating) breast cancer, or the patient was not presumably fertile," she said.

 

She tried again, without success, to fill her prescription at a family-owned pharmacy, and this week got a letter from her doctor's office stating the practice would no longer be prescribing methotrexate because of the number of patients having difficulty accessing it.

 

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A third woman, 48-year-old Jennifer Crow, a writer and produce gardener in Tellico Plains, Tennessee, told AFP she received an automated call from CVS saying her methotrexate refill had been declined "pending provider approval."

 

Crow said Methotrexate had helped her enormously in managing her inflammatory arthritis, allowing her to roll out of bed and get dressed without severe pain, and walk without a cane for the first time in years.

 

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Melissa, the nurse, said she was incensed at the double standard that allowed one of her best friends, who is a man, to get his methotrexate prescription filled right away with no questions asked.

 

Oh look, it's the incredibly predictable consequences of Dobbs.

[B-Man]

 

 

Department of Justice Creates 'Reproductive Rights Task Force' to Ensure the Slaughter of Innocents Continues

 

 

In the surreal press conference Joe Biden held Friday (Biden’s Incoherent Abortion Remarks Include ‘Ron Burgundy’ Moment) on the subject of the federal government’s response to the Supreme Court decision in Dobbs vs. Jackson Women’s Health Organization (Full Opinion: Dobbs v. Jackson Women’s Health Organization), the resident of the White House laid out a parade of horribles that he insisted would proceed from the fact that about half of the states would outlaw the ability of women to kill their kids at will.

 

{snip}

 

This “task force” is responding to a non-existent problem. The bullsh** that Biden and his cronies have slung about states prosecuting women who travel out of state is just false. None of the laws in effect or likely to be passed in the future criminalize travel to another state. Even Texas’ unique use of civil action to enforce its abortion statute does not apply to actions taken out of state. There are no laws that prevent the ability of people “inform and counsel each other about the reproductive care that is available in other states.” This promise is damned ironic in the light of this White House trying to shut down counseling services provided by Crisis Pregnancy Centers (Elizabeth Warren Leads the Bloodlust Brigade in the Democrat Party Targeting Pregnancy Centers on Behalf of Abortion). DOJ claims it will step up enforcement of the grotesque Freedom of Access to Clinic Entrances (FACES) Act. This is the same DOJ that allows pro-aborts to literally block the entrances to the homes of Supreme Court justices. As I’ve said, I am not a lawyer, but in light of Dobbs, it is doubtful that carving out special federal protection for abortion clinics and not for any other business will survive a challenge.

 

The cretins surrounding Joey SoftServe had decided to weaponize the Dobbs decision on two levels. The most dangerous aspect of this strategy is a conscious effort by the White House to delegitimize the Supreme Court. I think this is setting the predicate for this lawless and anti-American bunch to openly defy Supreme Court rulings over the next two years. In my view, the creation of this “task force” is just an extension of the desperate rearguard action underway by pro-abort judges to hamstring efforts by states to use the Dobbs ruling; see The Fight to End Abortion Is Facing Massive Resistance From Pro-Abort Organizations and Activist Judges.

 

The second part of the strategy is designed to whip up the anger of the pro-aborts in the Democrat–and Republican–parties in advance of the 2022 elections. We can anticipate that the FBI will uncover more “conspiracies,” like those plotting to kidnap Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer and overthrow the government (The FBI’s Latest Homegrown Terrorist Plot Is an Obvious Joke, but What Is Going to Happen to the People Involved Is Not), to attack abortuaries and the animals that work in them. The sole purpose of this “task force” is to create headlines to support the Democrats in 2022 and 2024.

 

https://redstate.com/streiff/2022/07/13/department-of-justice-creates-reproductive-rights-task-force-to-ensure-the-slaughter-of-innocents-continues-n592743

 

 

[ChiGoose]

Post-Roe, many autoimmune patients lose access to ‘gold standard’ drug

 

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Six days after the Supreme Court struck down the right to abortion, lupus patient Becky Schwarz got an unexpected message from her rheumatologist.

 

“This is a notice to let you know that we are pausing all prescriptions and subsequent refills of methotrexate,” the message read. “This decision has been made in response to the reversal of Roe vs. Wade.”

 

Schwarz was stunned. Methotrexate is a cheap, common drug prescribed to millions of Americans. Like her, many have rheumatic illnesses. Others take it to treat inflammatory bowel disease, psoriasis or cancer.

 

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Methotrexate was originally developed as a chemotherapy agent more than 60 years ago. But in low doses, it has proved to be one of the safest, least expensive and most effective treatments for roughly a dozen autoimmune conditions, from juvenile idiopathic arthritis to Crohn’s disease.

 

“It’s one of the most common medications that I prescribe,” said Dr. Grant Schulert, a pediatric rheumatology specialist at Cincinnati Children’s Hospital. “It’s really a mainstay of our practice.”

 

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In one case, a pharmacist initially refused to dispense methotrexate to an 8-year-old girl in Texas. In a note the child’s doctor shared with Edens, the pharmacist wrote, “Females of possible child bearing potential have to have diagnosis on hard copy with state abortion laws.”

 

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...[S]ome doctors have already stopped prescribing methotrexate rather than risk falling afoul of antiabortion laws.