Roe vs Wade Overturned

[Tenhigh]

1 hour ago, ChiGoose said:

Not if you read the article.

 

 

While many articles we see today are following the laws to their logical conclusions, the article I posted included a doctor talking about the problems they are already seeing. 

I read it. So 4 people? I am personally pro-choice and also think everyone should have access to drugs for rheumatoid arthritis, but leaning into the hysteria is just going to exacerbate the issue. It's really just a doomscrolling article.

[nedboy7]

2 hours ago, Westside said:

Nothing says I love children like ripping them out of there womb piece by piece. 

 

For decades, the anti-choice movement has attempted to brand itself as “pro-life,” but it’s not hard to see through their charade. As “pro-life” Republicans remain focused on criminalizing abortion, it’s not lost on Americans that this is the exact same Republican party that is hellbent on harming women and families with their regressive policies.

It’s pretty hard to call yourself “pro-life” when you’re actively working to:

Imprison or execute women who access safe abortion care.

Tear babies away from their parents and lock them in cages, with no plan to reunite them.

Silence doctors and strip reproductive healthcare away from millions of low-income people.

Stand by while the maternal mortality rates skyrocket and women—especially Black women—die in childbirth.

Deny affordable healthcare coverage to people with pre-existing conditions.

Cut programs that feed hungry kids.

Block access to HIV testing and treatment across the globe.

Incite far-right violence with lies about abortion.

 

 

[\GoBillsInDallas/]

https://nypost.com/2022/07/04/employee-who-refused-to-work-while-mourning-roe-v-wade-fired/

 

[B-Man]

 

Liberals Are Wrong. Emergency Pregnancy Treatments Remain Legal After Roe.

 

By Elizabeth Troutman

 

States will not prevent life-saving treatment for pregnant women post-Roe v. Wade, contrary to claims from liberal media outlets and politicians.

 

Democratic politicians including President Joe Biden and Vice President Kamala Harris, along with left-leaning media outlets like the New York Times, have said the Supreme Court’s decision to overturn Roe may endanger or kill pregnant mothers. "I don’t mean to sound alarmist, I mean this: Women will die," Harris said in a recent interview. Daily Beast columnist Wajahat Ali said women will have to ask themselves, "Do I abort this ectopic pregnancy to literally save my life or do I go to jail?"

 

While the overturn of Roe has either outlawed or severely restricted abortion in at least 11 states, each include exceptions to save the life of the mother in medical emergencies. Nevertheless, Democrats are hyping these concerns over pregnant mothers' safety, and abortion advocates are spending millions of dollars to rally supporters before the 2022 midterms.

 

The Texas "heart beat" bill, which prohibits abortion after six weeks of pregnancy, states that removal of an ectopic pregnancy does not constitute an abortion. Louisiana’s law prohibiting abortion after 15 weeks includes exceptions for ectopic pregnancies and other medical emergencies, along with the Ohio, Kentucky, Missouri, Arkansas, and Wisconsin abortion bills.

 

Treatment for ectopic pregnancies, where the unborn baby develops outside the uterus, is not abortion, said Dr. Christina Francis, a board-certified OB-GYN and associate scholar at the Charlotte Lozier Institute. She said women will receive the same treatment for life-threatening conditions as when Roe was in effect.

 

"The intent of an abortion is to end the life of the developing fetal human being, while our intent when we treat an ectopic pregnancy is to save the life of the mother,"  "We do a very different procedure than what's done for an induced abortion."

 

In Oklahoma, the state with the strictest abortion laws in the country, abortion is allowed when the doctor’s "reasonable medical judgment" determines it is necessary to save the mother’s life. Alabama allows abortions if the mother has a medical condition that requires "the termination of her pregnancy to avert her death or to avert serious risk of substantial physical impairment of a major bodily function." West Virginia, which criminalizes abortion, also allows exceptions with the "intention of saving the life of such woman or child." South Dakota’s 2022 abortion bill says a "procedure for the management of a miscarriage" is not an abortion.

 

Claims that the overturn of Roe will harm mothers who have miscarriages are also unfounded, according to Francis. If the unborn baby has died, "abortion laws, statutes, and even discussions don't apply," she said.

 

"There is intentional fear mongering being done," Francis said. "I think people who know better are trying to scare women and physicians in the general public into supporting abortion laws."

 

https://freebeacon.com/politics/liberals-are-wrong-emergency-pregnancy-treatments-remain-legal-after-roe/

 

[nedboy7]

Abortion: Solidly Rooted in America’s History

Leaders didn’t outlaw abortion in America until the mid-1800s. From colonial days until those first laws, abortion was a regular part of life for women. Common law allowed abortion prior to “quickening” — an archaic term for fetal movement that usually happens after around four months of pregnancy.

Medical literature and newspapers in the late 1700s and early 1800s regularly referred to herbs and medications as abortion-inducing methods, since surgical procedures were rare. Reproductive care including abortion was unregulated in those days; it was provided by skilled midwives, nurses, and other unlicensed women’s health care providers. Midwives were trusted, legitimate medical professionals who provided essential reproductive health care.

Prior to the Civil War, white men were not generally involved in the kind of gynecological or obstetric, or OB/GYN, practices we know today. Half of the women who provided reproductive care were Black women, some of whom were enslaved; midwives also included Indigenous and white women, according to an essay by Michele Goodwin, a law professor at the University of California-Irvine.

 

Abortion was frequently practiced in North America during the period from 1600 to 1900. Many tribal societies knew how to induce abortions... During the 1860s a number of states passed anti-abortion laws. Most of these laws were ambiguous and difficult to enforce. After 1860 stronger anti-abortion laws were passed and these laws were more vigorously enforced. As a result, many women began to utilize illegal underground abortion services.

 

It is clear to see how deeply abortion bans are rooted in white supremacy and patriarchal strongholds when we look at the history of Black women in this country. The tradition of disregarding the humanity of Black people is part of more than 400 years of white supremacist systems in America. Although abortion was legal throughout the country until after the Civil War, there were different rules for enslaved Black women than for white women. Enslaved Black women were valuable property. They didn’t have the freedom to control their bodies, and slave owners prohibited them from having abortions.

Under the law, white men owned Black women’s bodies. So, enslaved women who had access to emmenagogic herbs — plants used to stimulate menstruation — had to make remedies to induce their own abortions in secret.

When slavery was abolished in 1865, the societal control over Black women’s bodies remained. Today, our white supremacist culture judges Black women for both having children and for having abortions — besetting them with blame for virtually any decision they make and any form of agency they take about their bodies.

 

 

 

2 hours ago, B-Man said:

 

Liberals Are Wrong. Emergency Pregnancy Treatments Remain Legal After Roe.

 

By Elizabeth Troutman

 

States will not prevent life-saving treatment for pregnant women post-Roe v. Wade, contrary to claims from liberal media outlets and politicians.

 

Democratic politicians including President Joe Biden and Vice President Kamala Harris, along with left-leaning media outlets like the New York Times, have said the Supreme Court’s decision to overturn Roe may endanger or kill pregnant mothers. "I don’t mean to sound alarmist, I mean this: Women will die," Harris said in a recent interview. Daily Beast columnist Wajahat Ali said women will have to ask themselves, "Do I abort this ectopic pregnancy to literally save my life or do I go to jail?"

 

While the overturn of Roe has either outlawed or severely restricted abortion in at least 11 states, each include exceptions to save the life of the mother in medical emergencies. Nevertheless, Democrats are hyping these concerns over pregnant mothers' safety, and abortion advocates are spending millions of dollars to rally supporters before the 2022 midterms.

 

The Texas "heart beat" bill, which prohibits abortion after six weeks of pregnancy, states that removal of an ectopic pregnancy does not constitute an abortion. Louisiana’s law prohibiting abortion after 15 weeks includes exceptions for ectopic pregnancies and other medical emergencies, along with the Ohio, Kentucky, Missouri, Arkansas, and Wisconsin abortion bills.

 

Treatment for ectopic pregnancies, where the unborn baby develops outside the uterus, is not abortion, said Dr. Christina Francis, a board-certified OB-GYN and associate scholar at the Charlotte Lozier Institute. She said women will receive the same treatment for life-threatening conditions as when Roe was in effect.

 

"The intent of an abortion is to end the life of the developing fetal human being, while our intent when we treat an ectopic pregnancy is to save the life of the mother,"  "We do a very different procedure than what's done for an induced abortion."

 

In Oklahoma, the state with the strictest abortion laws in the country, abortion is allowed when the doctor’s "reasonable medical judgment" determines it is necessary to save the mother’s life. Alabama allows abortions if the mother has a medical condition that requires "the termination of her pregnancy to avert her death or to avert serious risk of substantial physical impairment of a major bodily function." West Virginia, which criminalizes abortion, also allows exceptions with the "intention of saving the life of such woman or child." South Dakota’s 2022 abortion bill says a "procedure for the management of a miscarriage" is not an abortion.

 

Claims that the overturn of Roe will harm mothers who have miscarriages are also unfounded, according to Francis. If the unborn baby has died, "abortion laws, statutes, and even discussions don't apply," she said.

 

"There is intentional fear mongering being done," Francis said. "I think people who know better are trying to scare women and physicians in the general public into supporting abortion laws."

 

https://freebeacon.com/politics/liberals-are-wrong-emergency-pregnancy-treatments-remain-legal-after-roe/

 

 

 

The wording varies slightly from state to state. Texas allows abortion for “a medical emergency”; Louisiana’s bill makes an exception to prevent “death or substantial risk of death,” or “permanent impairment of a life-sustaining organ”; and Idaho permits abortion “to prevent the death of the pregnant woman.” On Thursday, Oklahoma legislators approved a bill that would ban nearly all abortions starting from fertilization, with an exception to save the life of the mother “in a medical emergency.”

Those exceptions are so vaguely defined, and with such harsh penalties for providers deemed to have violated the terms, physicians say they will be effectively unable to provide proper medical care or even discuss abortion with patients.

“We take an oath to do no harm,” said Amanda Horton, a perinatologist in Texas who treats high-risk pregnancies. “I can’t do my job, I can’t provide ideal care if there are things I’m not allowed to talk about. That ultimately harms patients.”

The mental health consequences of being forced to carry an unviable pregnancy, for example, can be deadly. “Especially in the cases of psychotic illness, risk of suicide or infanticide is pretty high,” said Nichelle Haynes, a perinatal psychiatrist from the Reproductive Psychiatry Clinic of Austin. Studies show suicide is a leading cause of postpartum death. If someone previously had severe postpartum depression and was hospitalized after a suicide attempt, there’s a good chance of that happening again, especially if the pregnancy is unwanted, added Haynes.

From her perspective as a physician, that qualifies as a medical emergency: “The emergency is preventing that now.” But such a decision won’t be legally recognized in Texas, she said.

Even in more straightforward situations, where patients are in imminent physical danger, doctors are already struggling to provide care. Natalie Crawford, a fertility physician in Austin, said a pharmacy recently refused to fill a prescription for methotrexate, which treats an ectopic pregnancy by stopping the growth of the fertilized egg.

The pregnancy would never have resulted in the birth of a child, but was a serious risk to the mother. The embryo had attached in the patient’s fallopian tube which, if left untreated, would rupture and cause extensive internal bleeding. Emergency surgery could save the woman’s life if she were able to get to an emergency room fast enough but, if not, she would die from the blood loss.

“We told [the pharmacist] it’s a life-of-the-mother situation,” said Crawford. But they believed their employer wouldn’t permit the prescription. “They felt they would get in trouble.” And so Crawford’s team spent a day calling other pharmacies to find the medication for their patient. “It took extra manpower and time and it made me nervous about where we’re going to find this,” she said.

Doctors’ abilities to interpret medical exemptions, however they’re worded, are significantly limited when they face potential harsh punishment, said Florida State University law professor Mary Ziegler, who has written extensively on reproductive law.

“States are so determined to make it a serious crime, in some instances murder, the act of interpretation changes,” she said. “The more vague the language is, the more chilling effect that could have, because physicians don’t want to roll the dice.”

No body of law or precedents lay out what medical exemptions are permissible grounds for abortion. The procedure is considered life-saving treatment for several conditions, such as incomplete miscarriages, which can lead to sepsis and ultimately death if left untreated. But the political environment is so hostile, doctors say they will inevitably be afraid to respond in time.

“The more states are worried about exceptions slipping through the cracks, the more likely they are to put doctors in situations with people dying after incomplete miscarriages,” said Ziegler. “People will die.”

Potentially fatal pregnancies are relatively unusual, but still amount to thousands of patients a year in the U.S. Horton sees half a dozen high-risk cases a month, she said. Patients must be treated with an abortion if they develop profuse bleeding, caused by the placenta growing in the wrong location, or preeclampsia, a potentially fatal rise in blood pressure, that doesn’t respond to medication.

And non-pregnancy related health conditions can present serious risks to pregnant patients. Leukemia, for example, must be quickly treated with a form of chemotherapy that no fetus could survive. “It would be unwise and medically unsafe to allow a woman to experience chemotherapy, then have a pregnancy loss, then induce her,” said Horton. “It would seem cruel and unusual to receive chemotherapy and know that same medication is costing her unborn fetus its life.”

Physicians will inevitably be forced to wait for patients’ health to deteriorate to the point that their lives are clearly threatened, she said. “There are all kinds of situations where you’re in a gray zone by 1 p.m., and things will be worse by 5 p.m.,” said Wendy Parmet, director of the Center for Health Policy and Law at Northeastern University. “How much worse do you have to let it be? How much danger to the patient?”

Physicians are often wary of performing complex procedures during pregnancy, especially if they haven’t done so before. One of Horton’s patients a few years ago suffered heart failure when she was 17 weeks pregnant. “What was just terrible was no cardiac surgeon would offer her an operation to save her life, because she was pregnant,” she said. And so the patient needed an abortion before she could have her heart valve replaced.

“My concern is, in very restrictive states, that would not be enough to be considered maternal life at risk,” said Horton. “It would require continued escalation and deterioration of her own health before it’s deemed a medical emergency.”

These consequences will be worse for patients who are already marginalized, such as those who can’t afford to take time off work or travel to receive health care. Maternal mortality in the U.S. is significantly worse for Black women, and restrictions on abortion will only worsen that disparity, said Horton. Preeclampsia, one of the leading health risks in pregnancy, is more common in Black women, and symptoms are more likely to be dismissed in Black patients. One study estimates that if all abortions were banned in the U.S., there would be a 21% increase in pregnancy-related deaths overall, and a 33% increase among Black women.

Parmet noted that the political environment today is more hostile toward abortion than in earlier decades. Even pre-Roe, she said, law enforcement was unlikely to intervene if a hospital committee said an abortion was performed for a patient’s health.

“The pendulum has swung in such a striking direction. The needs of mothers and pregnant people have been placed on a backburner, with the intent that we’re a vessel to continue humanity,” said Horton. “The needs and wants of the mother are less important than the fetus.”

Edited July 4, 2022 by nedboy7

[CoudyBills]

20 minutes ago, nedboy7 said:

Abortion: Solidly Rooted in America’s History

Leaders didn’t outlaw abortion in America until the mid-1800s. From colonial days until those first laws, abortion was a regular part of life for women. Common law allowed abortion prior to “quickening” — an archaic term for fetal movement that usually happens after around four months of pregnancy.

Medical literature and newspapers in the late 1700s and early 1800s regularly referred to herbs and medications as abortion-inducing methods, since surgical procedures were rare. Reproductive care including abortion was unregulated in those days; it was provided by skilled midwives, nurses, and other unlicensed women’s health care providers. Midwives were trusted, legitimate medical professionals who provided essential reproductive health care.

Prior to the Civil War, white men were not generally involved in the kind of gynecological or obstetric, or OB/GYN, practices we know today. Half of the women who provided reproductive care were Black women, some of whom were enslaved; midwives also included Indigenous and white women, according to an essay by Michele Goodwin, a law professor at the University of California-Irvine.

 

Abortion was frequently practiced in North America during the period from 1600 to 1900. Many tribal societies knew how to induce abortions... During the 1860s a number of states passed anti-abortion laws. Most of these laws were ambiguous and difficult to enforce. After 1860 stronger anti-abortion laws were passed and these laws were more vigorously enforced. As a result, many women began to utilize illegal underground abortion services.

 

It is clear to see how deeply abortion bans are rooted in white supremacy and patriarchal strongholds when we look at the history of Black women in this country. The tradition of disregarding the humanity of Black people is part of more than 400 years of white supremacist systems in America. Although abortion was legal throughout the country until after the Civil War, there were different rules for enslaved Black women than for white women. Enslaved Black women were valuable property. They didn’t have the freedom to control their bodies, and slave owners prohibited them from having abortions.

Under the law, white men owned Black women’s bodies. So, enslaved women who had access to emmenagogic herbs — plants used to stimulate menstruation — had to make remedies to induce their own abortions in secret.

When slavery was abolished in 1865, the societal control over Black women’s bodies remained. Today, our white supremacist culture judges Black women for both having children and for having abortions — besetting them with blame for virtually any decision they make and any form of agency they take about their bodies.

 

 

 

 

 

The wording varies slightly from state to state. Texas allows abortion for “a medical emergency”; Louisiana’s bill makes an exception to prevent “death or substantial risk of death,” or “permanent impairment of a life-sustaining organ”; and Idaho permits abortion “to prevent the death of the pregnant woman.” On Thursday, Oklahoma legislators approved a bill that would ban nearly all abortions starting from fertilization, with an exception to save the life of the mother “in a medical emergency.”

Those exceptions are so vaguely defined, and with such harsh penalties for providers deemed to have violated the terms, physicians say they will be effectively unable to provide proper medical care or even discuss abortion with patients.

“We take an oath to do no harm,” said Amanda Horton, a perinatologist in Texas who treats high-risk pregnancies. “I can’t do my job, I can’t provide ideal care if there are things I’m not allowed to talk about. That ultimately harms patients.”

The mental health consequences of being forced to carry an unviable pregnancy, for example, can be deadly. “Especially in the cases of psychotic illness, risk of suicide or infanticide is pretty high,” said Nichelle Haynes, a perinatal psychiatrist from the Reproductive Psychiatry Clinic of Austin. Studies show suicide is a leading cause of postpartum death. If someone previously had severe postpartum depression and was hospitalized after a suicide attempt, there’s a good chance of that happening again, especially if the pregnancy is unwanted, added Haynes.

From her perspective as a physician, that qualifies as a medical emergency: “The emergency is preventing that now.” But such a decision won’t be legally recognized in Texas, she said.

Even in more straightforward situations, where patients are in imminent physical danger, doctors are already struggling to provide care. Natalie Crawford, a fertility physician in Austin, said a pharmacy recently refused to fill a prescription for methotrexate, which treats an ectopic pregnancy by stopping the growth of the fertilized egg.

The pregnancy would never have resulted in the birth of a child, but was a serious risk to the mother. The embryo had attached in the patient’s fallopian tube which, if left untreated, would rupture and cause extensive internal bleeding. Emergency surgery could save the woman’s life if she were able to get to an emergency room fast enough but, if not, she would die from the blood loss.

“We told [the pharmacist] it’s a life-of-the-mother situation,” said Crawford. But they believed their employer wouldn’t permit the prescription. “They felt they would get in trouble.” And so Crawford’s team spent a day calling other pharmacies to find the medication for their patient. “It took extra manpower and time and it made me nervous about where we’re going to find this,” she said.

Doctors’ abilities to interpret medical exemptions, however they’re worded, are significantly limited when they face potential harsh punishment, said Florida State University law professor Mary Ziegler, who has written extensively on reproductive law.

“States are so determined to make it a serious crime, in some instances murder, the act of interpretation changes,” she said. “The more vague the language is, the more chilling effect that could have, because physicians don’t want to roll the dice.”

No body of law or precedents lay out what medical exemptions are permissible grounds for abortion. The procedure is considered life-saving treatment for several conditions, such as incomplete miscarriages, which can lead to sepsis and ultimately death if left untreated. But the political environment is so hostile, doctors say they will inevitably be afraid to respond in time.

“The more states are worried about exceptions slipping through the cracks, the more likely they are to put doctors in situations with people dying after incomplete miscarriages,” said Ziegler. “People will die.”

Potentially fatal pregnancies are relatively unusual, but still amount to thousands of patients a year in the U.S. Horton sees half a dozen high-risk cases a month, she said. Patients must be treated with an abortion if they develop profuse bleeding, caused by the placenta growing in the wrong location, or preeclampsia, a potentially fatal rise in blood pressure, that doesn’t respond to medication.

And non-pregnancy related health conditions can present serious risks to pregnant patients. Leukemia, for example, must be quickly treated with a form of chemotherapy that no fetus could survive. “It would be unwise and medically unsafe to allow a woman to experience chemotherapy, then have a pregnancy loss, then induce her,” said Horton. “It would seem cruel and unusual to receive chemotherapy and know that same medication is costing her unborn fetus its life.”

Physicians will inevitably be forced to wait for patients’ health to deteriorate to the point that their lives are clearly threatened, she said. “There are all kinds of situations where you’re in a gray zone by 1 p.m., and things will be worse by 5 p.m.,” said Wendy Parmet, director of the Center for Health Policy and Law at Northeastern University. “How much worse do you have to let it be? How much danger to the patient?”

Physicians are often wary of performing complex procedures during pregnancy, especially if they haven’t done so before. One of Horton’s patients a few years ago suffered heart failure when she was 17 weeks pregnant. “What was just terrible was no cardiac surgeon would offer her an operation to save her life, because she was pregnant,” she said. And so the patient needed an abortion before she could have her heart valve replaced.

“My concern is, in very restrictive states, that would not be enough to be considered maternal life at risk,” said Horton. “It would require continued escalation and deterioration of her own health before it’s deemed a medical emergency.”

These consequences will be worse for patients who are already marginalized, such as those who can’t afford to take time off work or travel to receive health care. Maternal mortality in the U.S. is significantly worse for Black women, and restrictions on abortion will only worsen that disparity, said Horton. Preeclampsia, one of the leading health risks in pregnancy, is more common in Black women, and symptoms are more likely to be dismissed in Black patients. One study estimates that if all abortions were banned in the U.S., there would be a 21% increase in pregnancy-related deaths overall, and a 33% increase among Black women.

Parmet noted that the political environment today is more hostile toward abortion than in earlier decades. Even pre-Roe, she said, law enforcement was unlikely to intervene if a hospital committee said an abortion was performed for a patient’s health.

“The pendulum has swung in such a striking direction. The needs of mothers and pregnant people have been placed on a backburner, with the intent that we’re a vessel to continue humanity,” said Horton. “The needs and wants of the mother are less important than the fetus.”

Hahahahahahaha

[Tiberius]

The idea that rape and ***** victims should have no recourse is abominable 

 

 

[B-Man]

 

 

 

 

 

[Andy1]

One thing I’m sure of is there are alot of upstanding religious, conservative southern women who have saved their marriage or reputation by having an abortion they didn’t tell anyone about. It’s their personal little secret. They never thought the law would change.  Now they are all going to have to take longer “vacations” in the future. Hypocrisy is everywhere on this issue. It’s easy to be anti abortion when it’s the poor teenage girl from a broken family in the trailer park. When it affects the healthcare of middle class women, minds will change. 
 

Lawyers rule the world. If there is any uncertain medical issue, they will be advising hospitals to restrict care to protect the hospital from legal liability. 

[nedboy7]

The party of freedom and big business.....

 

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/republican-led-states-targeting-wall-100420462.html?fr=sycsrp_catchall

[Big Blitz]

 

 

That's just up to the Es we have plenty more.  

[SoCal Deek]

The hysteria is dying down (as it always does) and now the real work begins of crafting appropriate and thoughtful legislation in each State House.  Time for our elected officials to get to work. 

[Tiberius]

16 hours ago, nedboy7 said:

The party of freedom and big business.....

 

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/republican-led-states-targeting-wall-100420462.html?fr=sycsrp_catchall

Overreach 

[All_Pro_Bills]

 

16 hours ago, nedboy7 said:

The party of freedom and big business.....

 

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/republican-led-states-targeting-wall-100420462.html?fr=sycsrp_catchall

 

22 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Overreach 

I'm just curious.  As I see a logical disconnect in the argument.  If its the party of big business why do they need to legislate corporate behavior?  Shouldn't they just be able to use their standing arrangement with big business, pick up the phone, talk to the CEO, and its done?  And conversely, if that's what big business wants to do shouldn't they just obediently go along with it?  I think your argument needs to account for the existence of the uni-party and a reality that we have a one-party system with some fringe issues taking up space to create a distraction and perception that there's some choice to make between the two.  Like a 20 ton truck the system keeps rolling along wherever it please to go no matter who's in charge.   

[ChiGoose]

How abortion providers are adjusting to new realities in a post-Roe world

 

On exceptions for life threatening pregnancies:

Quote

There isn't one type of medical complication where you say, OK, this is life-threatening, and this isn't. In practice, what that means is that every single person will be faced with different hospitals, different physicians, different nurses that will make different decisions depending on the day. And that is catastrophic to the health and well-being of pregnant people in our state.

 

Quote

Interviewer: Do you think that some doctors are already waiting until a woman's vital signs are in distress, where she is near dying, before they feel they are legally covered to provide an abortion?

 

Doctor: Yes, that's exactly what we saw in the research that we conducted and exactly what I have been hearing from my colleagues across the state, that people will come in the early second trimester with their bag of water broken.

 

This is a pregnancy complication that, let's say, at 18 weeks, cannot be saved. But they are being told that they need to go home and wait until they have a fever, wait until they start hemorrhaging, or wait until they show signs of sepsis before they can return to have an abortion.

 

And that is — we saw that through our study. And I'm hearing that from colleagues all across the state in that setting.

 

Quote

Even an ectopic pregnancy, which seemingly is excluded, falls into a gray area, which can be interpreted differently depending on where the person shows up. So, most commonly, an ectopic pregnancy might implant in the fallopian tubes or in the ovaries. But an ectopic pregnancy can also implant into a C-section scar or into a uterine scar from a prior surgery.

 

That pregnancy will then grow through the uterine scar, potentially outside of the uterus, and into the bladder. Even before this ban went into effect, there were hospitals in Texas that would refuse to care for someone with an ectopic in the C-section scar, because they weren't sure if it was actually an ectopic or not.

 

And so what we are seeing now is that more and more people are being denied care for these gray areas that are not as clear-cut, because that decision-making is very individualized. It can't be clearly defined in a law, this is a complication, and this is not a complication, this is near death, and this is not near death. That is very individual.

 

Quote

Yes, unfortunately, none of these laws in our state have any exceptions for lethal fetal diagnosis.

 

And so what we have seen over the past 10 months is that people that are diagnosed with lethal fetal conditions, for example, like anencephaly, where the brain doesn't grow, or renal agenesis, where there are no kidneys, there is not a potential for life after birth, and yet pregnant people are forced to endure a complete pregnancy and the risks that come with that.

 

Somehow, I am not optimistic that other states will do a better job at writing abortion laws...

[SoCal Deek]

14 minutes ago, ChiGoose said:

 

 

Somehow, I am not optimistic that other states will do a better job at writing abortion laws...

Then it’s time we elect more intelligent people.

[ChiGoose]

4 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Then it’s time we elect more intelligent people.

 

Oh wow, genius idea! Why didn't anyone ever think of this before?

 

All our problems are now solved with this one easy solution that surely will be done quickly.

[SoCal Deek]

9 hours ago, ChiGoose said:

 

Oh wow, genius idea! Why didn't anyone ever think of this before?

 

All our problems are now solved with this one easy solution that surely will be done quickly.  
 

 

 

 

I never said it was earth shattering…which is why it’s called COMMON sense….and it’s a whole lot better than the current DEI driven agenda, or the geriatric crowd who use their elected offices as their version of a social senior center.

[Andy1]

The report ChiGoose quotes is exactly what I predicted last week. This will become a real shock to republican anti abortion women who have pregnancy complications.   The political support for strict anti abortion laws is at its peak now and will only decline in the future as women and their partners, friends and parents from all walks of life, realize it affects their health care. 
 

If republicans were smart, they would craft laws that give wide leeway to doctors to determine the medical need for abortion procedures to protect the health of women. They will need to push back on the religious right a bit to do this. Otherwise, this issue is going to backfire on them. I have no faith that they will do this. 

[Coffeesforclosers]

1 hour ago, Andy1 said:

 

If republicans were smart, they would craft laws that give wide leeway to doctors to determine the medical need for abortion procedures to protect the health of women. They will need to push back on the religious right a bit to do this. Otherwise, this issue is going to backfire on them. I have no faith that they will do this. 

 

They are smart, though. They aren't trying to create a pragmatic solution to a complex national issue. They're trying to give their primary voters what they want, so they don't get primaried.  

 

Giving the voters what they want and solving problems aren't the same thing.  Give *your* voters what they want though, and you only have to win one election to stay in power, not two. 

Edited July 8, 2022 by Coffeesforclosers