ChiGoose Posted July 2, 2022 Posted July 2, 2022 48 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: I couldn’t agree more with you on this issue. I don’t know that R v Wade guaranteed access to abortion in the time/place of a child’s guardian’s choosing, but that’s a topic for another day. In this scenario, would you advocate for full, unrestricted access for abortion thoroughout the entire pregnancy? Or does the viability of the child come into this discussion somewhere along the line as you mentioned the other day. Also, when does childhood end and adulthood begin in this scenario in your opinion? ps: Thank goodness for those perpetually happy democrats who love and trust all. I imagine you might be able to find a way to reach a common ground on the woman’s interest to privacy and autonomy, and the state’s interest in the baby’s life. Maybe in the first trimester, the woman can get an abortion; in the second trimester, it can be restricted based on criteria like health and viability; and in the third she could only get an abortion if the fetus was not viable or the woman’s life was in jeopardy. And you could use very clear language to differentiate out treatment for miscarriages or for other conditions that use some of the same medicines. 1
Tiberius Posted July 2, 2022 Posted July 2, 2022 10 year old girl that was raped denied an abortion in Ohio https://www.newsweek.com/shes-10-child-rape-victims-abortion-denial-sparks-outrage-twitter-1721248
ChiGoose Posted July 2, 2022 Posted July 2, 2022 Pharmacy denies woman medicine for miscarriage. Quote Nicole Mone Arteaga said the pharmacist refused to fill her prescription when she went to a local Walgreens. The pharmacist asked if she was pregnant, according to news reports. She explained that the baby she was carrying did not have a heartbeat and her doctor had given her the prescription for a pregnancy-terminating drug, which she preferred to the alternative, a surgery to remove the fetus. Quote “I stood at the mercy of this pharmacist explaining my situation in front of my 7-year-old, and five customers standing behind only to be denied because of his ethical beliefs,” said Arteaga Thankfully, she was able to get the medicine at another pharmacy.
Boatdrinks Posted July 3, 2022 Posted July 3, 2022 2 hours ago, ChiGoose said: Pharmacy denies woman medicine for miscarriage. Thankfully, she was able to get the medicine at another pharmacy. Yep, easy solution. Go to a different pharmacy.
Andy1 Posted July 3, 2022 Posted July 3, 2022 6 hours ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: I couldn’t agree more with you on this issue. I don’t know that R v Wade guaranteed access to abortion in the time/place of a child’s guardian’s choosing, but that’s a topic for another day. In this scenario, would you advocate for full, unrestricted access for abortion thoroughout the entire pregnancy? Or does the viability of the child come into this discussion somewhere along the line as you mentioned the other day. Also, when does childhood end and adulthood begin in this scenario in your opinion? ps: Thank goodness for those perpetually happy democrats who love and trust all. I think the viability of the fetus must be considered. I’m pretty much in agreement with the suggestion by ChiGoose above. Generally allowing it up to fetal viability is also the position of most states in the nation. Only AK, CO, NM, OR, VT, and NJ allow abortions through the full 9 month term. At the other end of the spectrum, SD, OK, AR, MO and AL don’t allow any abortion after conception. More states may be moving in that direction though. In TX, TN, OH and SC it is allowed up to 6 weeks. The vast majority of states (including traditionally liberal states like CA, NY, MA and CT) have permitted it without restrictions up to fetal viability which is defined as in the 24-26 week range. I would suggest that state definitions for age of consent be used. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_the_United_States This is just a very complex issue affecting womens health that goes way beyond saving babies is the right thing so let’s ban it. I have no faith that male dominated legislatures in republican states understand the complexities of this issue. They have been catering to the religious right for years and have no courage to make laws that would disappoint them and allow exceptions in their bans. 4 hours ago, Tiberius said: 10 year old girl that was raped denied an abortion in Ohio https://www.newsweek.com/shes-10-child-rape-victims-abortion-denial-sparks-outrage-twitter-1721248 The next thing I expect to see is politicians offering their “thoughts and prayers” to girls like this.
CoudyBills Posted July 3, 2022 Posted July 3, 2022 On 6/24/2022 at 10:49 AM, The Frankish Reich said: Let me ask the defenders of this decision. (And none of us can pretend to have read it yet!) I understand it turns the matter over to the states with no limits ("after 6 weeks of pregnancy", etc.). I know many people, including religious people, with kids born of in vitro fertilization. That will now be illegal in many states. Clinics will have to shut down there and the desperate-to-get-pregnant women (umm, "people" haha) will have to travel for these procedures at even greater expense. Do you think this is a good thing? Do you think women are likely to accept this? Not expressly written in the constitution, state's right. It is that simple. Good, bad, or ugly doesn't matter. The rule of law won.
ChiGoose Posted July 3, 2022 Posted July 3, 2022 2 minutes ago, CoudyBills said: Not expressly written in the constitution, state's right. It is that simple. Good, bad, or ugly doesn't matter. The rule of law won. That would be a tremendous shock to the founders and the authors of the 9th amendment.
CoudyBills Posted July 3, 2022 Posted July 3, 2022 On 6/24/2022 at 11:19 AM, The Frankish Reich said: Dead fetus = spontaneous abortion, not induced abortion. So, correct. But: nonviable fetus? Severe genetic defect, sure to be "born" stillborn? Illegal to abort that fetus in many states. Make that mom deliver! Cry B word On 6/24/2022 at 11:33 AM, NyQuil said: Actually it is a D&S which is a D&C with suction. Its the same procedure as an elective abortion. With 1 major difference you failed to mention.
CoudyBills Posted July 3, 2022 Posted July 3, 2022 On 6/24/2022 at 1:26 PM, HappyDays said: Poor analogy. No one is legally forced to get vaccinated, as in getting held down and jabbed with a needle. If you don't get vaccinated you lose certain social privileges. There are certain counties in America where if it is discovered that a woman had an abortion she would become a social pariah. That is a consequence of living in society. That isn't the same thing as totally stripping away a person's bodily autonomy and literally forcing them to make a choice they don't want to make. Are you lost in a world of immaculate conception? There is a choice, holy ***** man.
Andy1 Posted July 3, 2022 Posted July 3, 2022 (edited) This is an interesting read. https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/06/abortion-roe-prolife-movement-prohibition/661402/ The writer compares the win for the anti abortion movement to the victory for prohibition supporters. Eventually he suggests that a truce may develop between the pro-life vs pro-choice movements as has already happened in many other countries. Edited July 3, 2022 by Andy1
BillStime Posted July 3, 2022 Posted July 3, 2022 Human trash Inside the Extreme Effort to Punish Women for Abortion Men, white evangelicals and Republicans are among the most likely to believe that a woman should be punished 1
The Frankish Reich Posted July 3, 2022 Posted July 3, 2022 8 hours ago, Andy1 said: This is an interesting read. https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/06/abortion-roe-prolife-movement-prohibition/661402/ The writer compares the win for the anti abortion movement to the victory for prohibition supporters. Eventually he suggests that a truce may develop between the pro-life vs pro-choice movements as has already happened in many other countries. Agreed. Unfortunately, we are in an era of overreach. "Safe, legal, and rare" used to express the position of the majority center of American politics, and it was embraced by political leaders. Not anymore.
Tiberius Posted July 3, 2022 Posted July 3, 2022 10 hours ago, CoudyBills said: Not expressly written in the constitution, state's right. It is that simple. Good, bad, or ugly doesn't matter. The rule of law won. Aided and abetted by the most corrupt President in history. Great law making strategy
Andy1 Posted July 3, 2022 Posted July 3, 2022 11 hours ago, CoudyBills said: Not expressly written in the constitution, state's right. It is that simple. Good, bad, or ugly doesn't matter. The rule of law won. Yes, and our nation has a long history of, at times, passing laws that are unjust. This is one of those times. 1 1
Boatdrinks Posted July 3, 2022 Posted July 3, 2022 1 hour ago, Andy1 said: Yes, and our nation has a long history of, at times, passing laws that are unjust. This is one of those times. No national law was passed. The issue is left to the states. It’s that simple. There’s so much media hysteria and misinformation out there. 1 1
Tiberius Posted July 3, 2022 Posted July 3, 2022 19 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said: No national law was passed. The issue is left to the states. It’s that simple. There’s so much media hysteria and misinformation out there. And medicaid expansion in those states with forced pregnancies isn't going to be expanded in red states. Force them to be born and then FU them on health care. How is that pro-life?
ALF Posted July 4, 2022 Posted July 4, 2022 Somali music festival boos Ilhan Omar in Minnesota: 'Get the f--- out of here' The videos do not show what prompted such a strong response, but Newsweek reported that some have blamed Omar’s support for abortion and LGBTQ rights for the backlash. https://www.foxnews.com/us/somali-music-festival-boos-ilhan-omar-minnesota-get-the-f-out-of-here
Westside Posted July 4, 2022 Posted July 4, 2022 On 6/25/2022 at 4:03 PM, nedboy7 said: Funny you actually think you care about children. Nothing says I love children like ripping them out of there womb piece by piece. 1
Tenhigh Posted July 4, 2022 Posted July 4, 2022 On 7/2/2022 at 1:45 PM, ChiGoose said: The article is quoting a rheumatologist saying they are already seeing this. It seems more like people are concerned that it may become an issue than it actually being one.
ChiGoose Posted July 4, 2022 Posted July 4, 2022 36 minutes ago, Tenhigh said: It seems more like people are concerned that it may become an issue than it actually being one. Not if you read the article. Quote “Patients are having difficulty in states that have more strict anti-abortion laws, like Texas and Michigan,” she says. So far Crow has seen or been contacted by people from at least four different states who have had trouble getting their methotrexate. Quote “Three categories of barriers I've seen are (1) The pharmacist will not physically give the patient the prescribed medication as prescribed by their rheumatologist. (2) The pharmacist is delaying giving the patient methotrexate while they sort through the potential legal issues around giving it to them, which included in one case making sure they had documentation the patient was on birth control, and (3) a rheumatologist saying across the board their entire clinic is currently not prescribing methotrexate due to potential legal issues,” she says. While many articles we see today are following the laws to their logical conclusions, the article I posted included a doctor talking about the problems they are already seeing. 1
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