Roe vs Wade Overturned

[aristocrat]

People-pay us a living wage. 

Companies-we will pay for you to travel to have abortions how about that?

 

Celebration!

[cle23]

1 hour ago, SCBills said:

I don’t know how I feel about denying Communion to individuals with opinions counter to the Church, but I do agree with denying it to people like Biden and Pelosi, supposed Catholics, who are actively working to make America have the most aggressive abortion access in the entire world … something completely counter to the churches teachings. 

 

Right, and that is 100% political at that point, and the church should be denied tax exempt status.  The catholic church covered up and enabled thousands of pedophile priests, but suddenly this is the breaking point?  People who lie, cheat, steal?  Murderers have been born again and aren't denied the same.  

 

If the line you draw as a church is political, then they are entering the political world, and tax exempt status should be revoked.  Just the same as gay marriage.  No church who disagrees with gay marriage should be forced to perform a gay marriage, but the second a church tries to prevent a gay marriage in the eyes of the government, then it's political.

[The Frankish Reich]

3 hours ago, Jauronimo said:

 

Thats interesting.  Pro-choice is prevalent amongst the more educated, higher income, and younger population.  Pro-life is most popular among low-income, less educated Americans.  

 

https://news.gallup.com/poll/244709/pro-choice-pro-life-2018-demographic-tables.aspx

 

 

I love the poorly educated.

[Pokebball]

42 minutes ago, cle23 said:

 

Right, and that is 100% political at that point, and the church should be denied tax exempt status.  The catholic church covered up and enabled thousands of pedophile priests, but suddenly this is the breaking point?  People who lie, cheat, steal?  Murderers have been born again and aren't denied the same.  

 

If the line you draw as a church is political, then they are entering the political world, and tax exempt status should be revoked.  Just the same as gay marriage.  No church who disagrees with gay marriage should be forced to perform a gay marriage, but the second a church tries to prevent a gay marriage in the eyes of the government, then it's political.

I'd argue this is in direct conflict with 1A -  "or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"

[The Frankish Reich]

4 hours ago, ChiGoose said:

 

The 9th and the 14th amendments, generally.

 

When the Bill of Rights was being debated, some founders opposed the idea, thinking that listing out rights would imply that anything not on the list would not be a right. It would be impossible to come up with an exhaustive list of all rights people were entitled to, so any list would be inherently deficient. Such a list could also be used to curtail rights that were not enumerated in the document.

 

This is where the 9th amendment and unenumerated rights come from. Unenumerated rights are simply rights that are inferred from other rights or laws that are more explicitly spelled out.

 

The 9th Amendment, ratified with the Bill of Rights in 1789, reads:

 

This is to combat the argument that the Bill of Rights is exhaustive of all rights and that any rights not appearing in any amendment are therefore not constitutional rights. The default position is that just because a right does not appear in the text does not mean it does not exist.

 

Section one of the 14th Amendment, ratified in 1868, reads (emphasis mine):

 

This is where the Supreme Court finds a right to privacy for Americans and their right to make personal decisions about their family without intrusive government interference.

I always find it instructive to flip the script to see what the other side of a debate will/won’t concede. 
I’ve mentioned this before. Imagine a wave of (pseudo) scientists win political control of a small state. They pass a eugenics law akin to Buck v Bell - the “two generations of imbeciles are enough” mandatory sterilization case. Now point me to the clause in the constitution or its amendments that says a state can’t do that. 
Good luck. 
The great jurist (and I don’t use that term lightly) Oliver Wendell Holmes wrote that “two generation” line in finding that the state had a strong interest in improving its genetic stick and that nothing in the constitution prevented it from enacting a mandatory sterilization law. 
A later case - Skinner - kind of qualified what states can and cannot do in this area, but it was an equal protection case: Oklahoma sterilized “habitual criminals” but excluded white collar criminals. So it failed on those grounds. So if you believe that a state cannot involuntarily sterilize you (because, say, you already have 2 kids and the state finds that each additional child will contribute to climate change), what’s to stop it? An unenumerated right, perhaps? A right to personal autonomy? Shall we dub it a … right to PRIVACY?

[cle23]

2 minutes ago, Pokebball said:

I'd argue this is in direct conflict with 1A -  "or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"

 

This is direct off the IRS religious tax exempt status:

 

To qualify for tax-exempt status, the organization must meet the following requirements (covered in greater detail throughout this publication):

 

- the organization must be organized and operated exclusively for religious, educational, scientific or other charitable purposes;

- no substantial part of its activity may be attempting to influence legislation;

- the organization may not intervene in political campaigns;

 

Denying communion based off of politics seems to be in conflict with 1, and at least probably with 2.

 

Also, no one is denying them the free exercise of.  Revoking tax exempt status has nothing to do with stopping them from exercising their beliefs.

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

3 hours ago, Jauronimo said:

 

Thats interesting.  Pro-choice is prevalent amongst the more educated, higher income, and younger population.  Pro-life is most popular among low-income, less educated Americans.  

 

https://news.gallup.com/poll/244709/pro-choice-pro-life-2018-demographic-tables.aspx

 

 

Solution:  Maybe the abortion clinics should be built next door to the Student Loan Forgiveness Soup Kitchen?  

[Jauronimo]

11 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

Solution:  Maybe the abortion clinics should be built next door to the Student Loan Forgiveness Soup Kitchen?  

If you think the highest income Americans are the ones looking for loan forgiveness then I guess that makes sense.

[Pokebball]

16 minutes ago, cle23 said:

 

This is direct off the IRS religious tax exempt status:

 

To qualify for tax-exempt status, the organization must meet the following requirements (covered in greater detail throughout this publication):

 

- the organization must be organized and operated exclusively for religious, educational, scientific or other charitable purposes;

- no substantial part of its activity may be attempting to influence legislation;

- the organization may not intervene in political campaigns;

 

Denying communion based off of politics seems to be in conflict with 1, and at least probably with 2.

 

Also, no one is denying them the free exercise of.  Revoking tax exempt status has nothing to do with stopping them from exercising their beliefs.

The state of grace one needs to be in before receiving communion existed long before the IRS existed. I continue to believe you are wrong on your position. We'll see if anyone cares to make this challenge in court. 

[cle23]

19 minutes ago, Pokebball said:

The state of grace one needs to be in before receiving communion existed long before the IRS existed. I continue to believe you are wrong on your position. We'll see if anyone cares to make this challenge in court. 

 

Again, that's fine.  They can have whatever position they want on it, but that doesn't change the tax exempt status they currently enjoy, and whether or not they should still receive it.  

 

It's like freedom of speech.  You can say/do almost anything you want, but that does not mean that there can't be consequences.  Just that the government can't arrest you for it.  Same thing applies here.  They can hold that position, it's not illegal.  But they should lose tax exempt status if they want to dip their foot into politics and make political statements.

 

How is it ok to deny communion for this situation and then freely give it out otherwise, to a pile of other people who have done or stood for worse?

[T&C]

4 hours ago, Jauronimo said:

 

Thats interesting.  Pro-choice is prevalent amongst the more educated, higher income, and younger population.  Pro-life is most popular among low-income, less educated Americans.  

 

https://news.gallup.com/poll/244709/pro-choice-pro-life-2018-demographic-tables.aspx

 

 

Just going by what I saw... didn't see any purple haired tatted fatties celebrating the decision.

[Orlando Buffalo]

1 hour ago, cle23 said:

 

Right, and that is 100% political at that point, and the church should be denied tax exempt status.  The catholic church covered up and enabled thousands of pedophile priests, but suddenly this is the breaking point?  People who lie, cheat, steal?  Murderers have been born again and aren't denied the same.  

 

If the line you draw as a church is political, then they are entering the political world, and tax exempt status should be revoked.  Just the same as gay marriage.  No church who disagrees with gay marriage should be forced to perform a gay marriage, but the second a church tries to prevent a gay marriage in the eyes of the government, then it's political.

You believe the Catholic church trying to stand up for the unborn is 100% political? Your entire statement is written as if you believe you understand the Catholic Church but you clearly have no idea what you are talking about. 

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

37 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

If you think the highest income Americans are the ones looking for loan forgiveness then I guess that makes sense.

You said initially “…more educated, higher income, and younger population…”.  
 

Now, it’s the “highest income Americans”?  You meant Bill Gates’ kid?  I agree she probably won’t look for loan forgiveness.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[FireChans]

1 hour ago, Jauronimo said:

If you think the highest income Americans are the ones looking for loan forgiveness then I guess that makes sense.

The non-college educated are generally not seeking reimbursement for college education loans to the best of my knowledge.

[cle23]

21 minutes ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

You believe the Catholic church trying to stand up for the unborn is 100% political? Your entire statement is written as if you believe you understand the Catholic Church but you clearly have no idea what you are talking about. 

 

My original comment was in regards to someone saying they were fine with the Catholic Church denying people like Biden and Pelosi communion.  I said at that point, it would obviously be political.  You can't pick out one point and make that your rallying cry, and then ignore all other things.  And I think the church should accept people with varying backgrounds as people change and improve all the time, but what makes their stance on this different from all the other people they serve who have dark backgrounds?

 

The Catholic Church has no business being high and mighty in regards to the unborn when they (not all obviously) actively engaged in sexual abuse on tens of thousands of living, breathing children, and the higher ups knew and covered it up.

 

My whole premise is they can do and feel as they like within the law, but when they start injecting themselves into politics, by definition, that changes their tax exempt status.

[The Frankish Reich]

23 minutes ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

You believe the Catholic church trying to stand up for the unborn is 100% political? Your entire statement is written as if you believe you understand the Catholic Church but you clearly have no idea what you are talking about. 

To jump in uninvited here …

… I was raised in the Catholic Church, went to Catholic schools, and sent my kids to Catholic schools. I consider myself a Catholic now, although I suppose the more doctrinaire bishops would disagree and call me a cultural Catholic rather than a real member of the faith community. Whatever. 
Are people really familiar with the Catholic Church’s positions on these “life” issues? They’ve got the abortion part down, but, for example, I’ve known many Catholic parents of in vitro fertilization (often multiple) births. And nobody is refusing them communion. Despite this:

https://www.usccb.org/issues-and-action/human-life-and-dignity/reproductive-technology/begotten-not-made-a-catholic-view-of-reproductive-technology
 

The Catholic Church position is consistent (life begins at birth), but extreme (even things that don’t terminate a potential life are morally wrong - see above) and sometimes, well, you tell me:

 

https://www.catholic.com/qa/why-*****-is-wrong
 

Maybe they should have a separate section set aside for all the wankers so they can’t get communion?

[Jauronimo]

 

 

12 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

You said initially “…more educated, higher income, and younger population…”.  
 

Now, it’s the “highest income Americans”?  You meant Bill Gates’ kid?  I agree she probably won’t look for loan forgiveness.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

OK, you win and you totally owned the more educated, higher earning, idiot libs with that zinger.  Print it out and hang it on the fridge for the wife to see.

[billsfan_34]

On 6/24/2022 at 11:14 AM, B-Man said:

 

A D&C , A dilation and curettage procedure is used to scrape out the remaining tissue from a spontaneous miscarriage. NOT AN ABORTION

 

This has nothing to do with it.

 

See how this works ?

 

Goose types out a false reaction to today's ruling and now I have to point it out repeatedly.

 

 

Facts sometimes just do not matter - I see many on here are talking out of their rectum as usual. I was going to explain it to the folks with fingers in their ears, but you beat me to it 😊.

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

18 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

 

 

OK, you win and you totally owned the more educated, higher earning, idiot libs with that zinger.  Print it out and hang it on the fridge for the wife to see.

Sure, I’ll print it…if I can get my time machine to visit 1988.  Jeesh dude, think twice:  Once for clarity, twice to save the planet. 
 

I’ll PDF it and move the laptop near the fridge.  
 

 

 

 

[ChiGoose]

8 minutes ago, billsfan_34 said:

Facts sometimes just do not matter - I see many on here are talking out of their rectum as usual. I was going to explain it to the folks with fingers in their ears, but you beat me to it 😊.

Please go talk to an OB. Or any expert in the field. 
 

A miscarriage is a spontaneous abortion. That’s what it is, that’s what it’s called.

 

The treatment for most miscarriages is an abortion to remove the tissue and prevent illness.

 

Any law that governs abortions also governs miscarriages and they are no longer required to differentiate between the two. 
 

I have been living this nightmare for four years, believe me, I know what I am talking about. 
 

Seriously, just please either consult an OB or read any of the hundreds of examples that are easily available of women whose lives were endangered by a miscarriage because abortion laws interfered with their treatment.

Edited June 27, 2022 by ChiGoose