JaCrispy Posted June 26, 2022 Posted June 26, 2022 Abortion is probably one of the most difficult and complicated issues humanity will ever have to deal with imo… That being said, I can understand how both sides might think the Constitution defends their view… 1 1
Tiberius Posted June 26, 2022 Posted June 26, 2022 5 minutes ago, Beach said: i am pro-choice, but i am enjoying the liberal tears for a little bit Good, I'm still enjoying Trump's defeat
JaCrispy Posted June 26, 2022 Posted June 26, 2022 5 minutes ago, Tiberius said: Good, I'm still enjoying Trump's defeat You see, you make it personal- about Trump, while seeming to ignore how worse off the country has been the last 17 months, since he’s been out of office… I don’t want Trump as president either, but I’m not going to just pretend that we weren’t better off with him running the country… 2
Tiberius Posted June 26, 2022 Posted June 26, 2022 4 minutes ago, JaCrispy said: You see, you make it personal- about Trump, while seeming to ignore how worse off the country has been the last 17 months, since he’s been out of office… I don’t want Trump as president either, but I’m not going to just pretend that we weren’t better off with him running the country… Personal? About a politician? What? What are you talking about? And your argument makes no sense. You mean since Covid? Trump was prez when that started and we have been with that ever since. The guy tried overthrowing the government but he supposidly in your mind made the trains run on time.
JaCrispy Posted June 26, 2022 Posted June 26, 2022 2 minutes ago, Tiberius said: Personal? About a politician? What? What are you talking about? And your argument makes no sense. You mean since Covid? Trump was prez when that started and we have been with that ever since. The guy tried overthrowing the government but he supposidly in your mind made the trains run on time. What I’m talking about is that you seem to care more about Trump being defeated than the fact that the country has gone off a cliff since he’s been gone…And that’s not in my mind…it’s a reality that everyone sees, even if you pretend not to… 3 1 1 3
All_Pro_Bills Posted June 26, 2022 Posted June 26, 2022 (edited) 31 minutes ago, JaCrispy said: Abortion is probably one of the most difficult and complicated issues humanity will ever have to deal with imo… That being said, I can understand how both sides might think the Constitution defends their view… That's interesting because the essence of Friday's SCOTUS ruling is the Roe v. Wade precedent established by the 1970's era court was invalid because the Constitution has no such protection. And therefore, they voided the previous ruling while sending it back to Congress and State legislatures. I re-read the Constitution this morning and conclude there is no such protection, and the current court is correct. I'm curious what Article (or Section) or Amendment anyone thinks provides protection or extends the "right" for abortions. Edited June 26, 2022 by All_Pro_Bills 1 1
JaCrispy Posted June 26, 2022 Posted June 26, 2022 1 minute ago, All_Pro_Bills said: That's interesting because the essence of Friday's SCOTUS ruling is the Roe v. Wade precedent established by the 1970's era court was invalid because the Constitution has no such protection. And therefore, they voided the previous ruling while sending it back to Congress and State legislatures. I'm curious what Article (or Section) or Amendment anyone thinks provides protection or extends the "right" for abortions. That’s the $64,000 question…the argument I keep hearing from pro choice advocates is that women’s rights to have autonomy over their own bodies is protected in the Constitution… This is why it’s such a complicated issue…I don’t know what the right answer is… But I do have a theory- the abortion debate will never be settled the way that it’s always been argued up to this point…it’s a no-win situation imo…
All_Pro_Bills Posted June 26, 2022 Posted June 26, 2022 Just now, JaCrispy said: That’s the $64,000 question…the argument I keep hearing from pro choice advocates is that women’s rights to have autonomy over their own bodies is protected in the Constitution… This is why it’s such a complicated issue…I don’t know what the right answer is… But I do have a theory- the abortion debate will never be settled the way that it’s always been argued up to this point…it’s a no-win situation imo… We agree on that. I've heard and seen a lot of slogans and one-liners from pro-choice supporters and advocates and politicians but no intelligent and clear argument that provides an answer to that question. I think this question is the first issue. The second is what kind and type of "protections" make sense. For the women and the unborn child. Most of the arguments I hear tend to mix the two together. One other thing I find ironic (there always seems to be something) is the same cast of characters raging on about "my body, my choice" are the same cast of characters supporting and encouraging the idea of sending storm troopers out during the pandemic in a house-to-house search to force vaccinate any non-conformers. 1 1
BillStime Posted June 26, 2022 Posted June 26, 2022 7 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said: We agree on that. I've heard and seen a lot of slogans and one-liners from pro-choice supporters and advocates and politicians but no intelligent and clear argument that provides an answer to that question. I think this question is the first issue. The second is what kind and type of "protections" make sense. For the women and the unborn child. Most of the arguments I hear tend to mix the two together. One other thing I find ironic (there always seems to be something) is the same cast of characters raging on about "my body, my choice" are the same cast of characters supporting and encouraging the idea of sending storm troopers out during the pandemic in a house-to-house search to force vaccinate any non-conformers. Simple question - should the government force you to get a vasectomy?
Beach Posted June 26, 2022 Posted June 26, 2022 1 hour ago, Tiberius said: Good, I'm still enjoying Trump's defeat that has nothing to do with the topic. you are just emotional right now.
SoCal Deek Posted June 26, 2022 Posted June 26, 2022 1 hour ago, JaCrispy said: That’s the $64,000 question…the argument I keep hearing from pro choice advocates is that women’s rights to have autonomy over their own bodies is protected in the Constitution… This is why it’s such a complicated issue…I don’t know what the right answer is… But I do have a theory- the abortion debate will never be settled the way that it’s always been argued up to this point…it’s a no-win situation imo… That is the entire point…the developing child is definitely NOT the woman’s body. It may be inside her but is clearly a distinct life that is also granted constitutional protection. 2
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted June 26, 2022 Posted June 26, 2022 7 hours ago, Andy1 said: Then this is where it gets illogical and indefensible. If a woman takes her one-year old baby to a doctor to be killed, she would be charged with accessory to murder or whatever the appropriate legal charge is. Under the logic of the hardliners, a woman taking her embryo/fetus to get an abortion is doing the same thing. To treat the two scenarios differently would be admitting that an embryo/fetus is not in fact the same as a person. What’s a “hardliner”, Andy? It’s a descriptive word, of course, but in the abortion discussion can have multiple meetings.
BillStime Posted June 26, 2022 Posted June 26, 2022 17 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: That is the entire point…the developing child is definitely NOT the woman’s body. It may be inside her but is clearly a distinct life that is also granted constitutional protection. So, child support payments can begin immediately as well as health insurance for the child and mother?
L Ron Burgundy Posted June 27, 2022 Posted June 27, 2022 53 minutes ago, Big Blitz said: Totally salvageable You're right. Anyone that calls that demonic is probably not salvageable. You didn't mention covid in a post congrats.
SCBills Posted June 27, 2022 Posted June 27, 2022 The vast majority of this country supports abortion access through 12-15 weeks, with carve outs for rare exceptions after. States like NY and Cali won’t accept that. States like Texas and Missouri won’t either. We are witnessing the Balkanization of America .. and that may be a good thing. COVID Response Abortion LGBTQIA+ Bending of the Knee Education/Schooling/Children We have fundamentally different values that are increasingly incompatible as a nation. It’s better off that states become redder and bluer. Outside of flying up for a Bills game, I never want to set foot in Hochul’s New York again. Hopefully when “heartbeat” laws pass.. school choice etc, blue voters feel the same and move up north or out west. 1 1
Andy1 Posted June 27, 2022 Posted June 27, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: What’s a “hardliner”, Andy? It’s a descriptive word, of course, but in the abortion discussion can have multiple meetings. I am referring to those politicians whose position is no abortions period, from moment of conception, no exceptions. They equate abortion with murder. Clearly, at some point, the fetus has viability and abortions should not be allowed beyond that point. Edited June 27, 2022 by Andy1 1
Andy1 Posted June 27, 2022 Posted June 27, 2022 (edited) 8 hours ago, Pokebball said: The difference, of course, is that the fetus is inside it's mother. That doesn't mean it's not a life. We are not going to come to some kind of agreement unless we're all willing to compromise. There are hundreds of buts like the one you mention above. Can we work through all of those and find a national solution we can all live with? I agree. Compromise is needed on all sides. I would suggest that abortion be made legal everywhere during the first 3-4 months of pregnancy. Make it illegal everywhere after 7 months. Between 4-7 months, states can do what they want. Edited June 27, 2022 by Andy1 1
T&C Posted June 27, 2022 Posted June 27, 2022 The protesters of the ruling that I've seen strike me as people of walmart... the people that support it strike me as Target/mall people. 1
Big Blitz Posted June 27, 2022 Posted June 27, 2022 2 hours ago, SCBills said: The vast majority of this country supports abortion access through 12-15 weeks, with carve outs for rare exceptions after. States like NY and Cali won’t accept that. States like Texas and Missouri won’t either. We are witnessing the Balkanization of America .. and that may be a good thing. COVID Response Abortion LGBTQIA+ Bending of the Knee Education/Schooling/Children We have fundamentally different values that are increasingly incompatible as a nation. It’s better off that states become redder and bluer. Outside of flying up for a Bills game, I never want to set foot in Hochul’s New York again. Hopefully when “heartbeat” laws pass.. school choice etc, blue voters feel the same and move up north or out west. Bingo. It's over. There are ZERO common denominators. I've always been optimistic. These people are freaking gooooooone. A SCOTUS appointment (female) unable to define a woman - and NO ONE on the left cared - is the day it ended for me. We're done here. 1
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