Epenesa, Ford & Moss -Are they outta here?

[NewEra]

I get why people say Moss, but I think he shows up an improved back this year….if healthy.  I like What Duke brings to the table, but I think the addition of Cook makes him expendable.  
 

I think Epenesa stays but will likely become our DE version of Ford next year. 
 

Kromer is Fords only chance.  Can he beat out Van Roten?  If not, he should be cut. 

[Rocky Landing]

48 minutes ago, DapperCam said:

I doubt any get cut. I would say Moss is in the most danger. No way they cut Epenesa unless he has a terrible camp. I doubt they cut Ford unless they sign/trade for a vet to take his spot at depth G.

You mean like Quessenberry, Mancz, and Van Roten?

[ganesh]

16 hours ago, Chandler#81 said:

Moss is a fighter -I’ll give him that. Even if he doesn’t really force defenders to “make business decisions“.  He’s a capable receiver as well. Just a hunch, but I think he’s fallen out of favor for something we haven’t been made aware of.. 🤔

Because he is too slow.  

16 hours ago, offyourocker said:

Moss is safe.  Singletary is in his last year and there is no way we pay him

Both Moss and Singletary will be gone at the END of the season.  The Bills cannot pay everyone and RB will not be a priority especially if Cook starts taking playing time from Singletary.  The Bills will go back to the draft and get another mid-tier RB and a veteran FA to backup Cook.

[BADOLBILZ]

15 hours ago, Chandler#81 said:

I’ll give you Badol. Extremely knowledgeable-but drenched with vinegar. 

 

Some people just don't know what's good for them.

 

Just like the acetic acid in vinegar improves cognitive performance and slows dementia........as does reading my takes.

 

Drink this @eball,   give your liver a drink off. 

 

[maddenboy]

2 hours ago, ganesh said:

Both Moss and Singletary will be gone at the END of the season.  The Bills cannot pay everyone and RB will not be a priority especially if Cook starts taking playing time from Singletary.  The Bills will go back to the draft and get another mid-tier RB and a veteran FA to backup Cook.

This

[Thurman#1]

11 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Don’t think there’s enough balls to go around between Moss/Singletary and now Cook…. I suspect Moss is traded.

 

 

Enough balls to go around won't be the limiting factor. Roster spots will be. There are three available and probably another for STs. If these are the top three, which is what I think will happen, there'll be plenty of room for all of them. More, if they want to spread it around, there'd be plenty of balls to go around. 

 

It's not as if you save much money getting rid of Moss. 

 

You could certainly be right, but I doubt it.

Edited June 25, 2022 by Thurman#1

[Thurman#1]

11 hours ago, Bill from NYC said:

Well, I knew that these picks (McKelvin and Whitner to name 2) were mistakes the day they were made mand it was easy to figure for me. And of course, I am not a scout, coach or GM. A 12 year old kid with a copy of Joel Buchbaum's Pro Football Weekly could draft better than Levy/Jauron.

 

Remember, this thread went in the direction of people being over critical of the Bills and those being total "homers."  My response was in that context, and I'm sorry if I was a bit short.

 

 

You really didn't. What you had there were guesses, not knowledge. Educated guesses, but guesses.

 

And I'm not saying that about you particularly. It's true of everyone, me certainly included. I hated the Whitner pick (I didn't mind him, I just wanted Ngata) and questioned the Maybin and Spiller picks also. I kinda liked the McKelvin pick and still don't have a major problem with that one, myself. 

 

And I'm sure I'm far shorter and more irritating than you, and much more often. I'm sorry about that myself, more so than you should have to feel, IMO. In person I'm a consistent sweetheart and here I'm much more caustic than is good for me to be. Have a great week, and I say that uncaustically.

 

4 hours ago, DapperCam said:

I doubt any get cut. I would say Moss is in the most danger. No way they cut Epenesa unless he has a terrible camp. I doubt they cut Ford unless they sign/trade for a vet to take his spot at depth G.

 

 

This is about where I stand. I think they're probably all three on the roster, though I would say the most likely cut/trade would be Ford rather than Moss. But we'll see.

 

 

 

Edited June 25, 2022 by Thurman#1

[Thurman#1]

3 hours ago, ganesh said:

 

Both Moss and Singletary will be gone at the END of the season.  The Bills cannot pay everyone and RB will not be a priority especially if Cook starts taking playing time from Singletary.  The Bills will go back to the draft and get another mid-tier RB and a veteran FA to backup Cook.

 

 

Wildly unlikely, I think. One gone, of Moss and Singletary? A much better chance, at the end of the season as you're saying.

 

But both? Really doubtful is my guess.

[Thurman#1]

11 hours ago, Logic said:

I like Singletary, but I hope they don’t extend him. He’s not special or dynamic enough that you couldn’t replace his talents with another mid round pick. They also just invested a 2nd round pick in a running back.

 

In general, unless a running back is special, I don’t think it’s good business to give them a second contract. Even then, it often doesn’t work out — see McCaffrey and Elliot.

 

I hope they spend that money elsewhere. Knox, Oliver, Edmunds, and Poyer are all coming up, so the Bills will need every last penny.

 

 

I absolutely hope they do extend him. I guess they don't due to cap issues.

 

But he's consistently underestimated here. He's really good, or at least he sure played that way after they finally got the OL figured out.

 

The other day Cover 2 had him as the 10th - 12th best RB in the league last year ... after they put Bates in. Hearing them say that I felt, "at last, someone else seems to see what seems obvious to me."

 

I can't see them paying him his market value, for cap reasons, but I'm still holding onto hope that they can work out a contract with a hometown discount. But I'd certainly understand if Singletary wasn't interested. For RBs, that 2nd contract is absolutely huge for their lifelong financial health.

[Richard Noggin]

20 hours ago, Chandler#81 said:

Moss is a fighter -I’ll give him that. Even if he doesn’t really force defenders to “make business decisions“.  He’s a capable receiver as well. Just a hunch, but I think he’s fallen out of favor for something we haven’t been made aware of.. 🤔

 

I think we DO know what caused Moss to fall out of favor: he wasn't a good fit as the Bills rushing attack moved away from zone blocking schemes down the stretch last season.

 

Throughout his tenure, McDermott has wanted the Bills to be a primarily zone-based rushing offense (more specifically outside zone), evidenced by his early hires (Dennison et al) and by his most recent hires (and interviews), but not previously matched by the personnel dept (too many subpar athletes on the OL to run it effectively). I commend them for adapting last year to the pin-and-pull and more gap-based approach that the line could actually execute at a high level.

 

Aside from Kromer, the Bills interviewed OL coach candidates who were all proponents of zone blocking (and again, wide zone specifically). Moss fits into this organizational desire to run that kind of offense. I think, with two years remaining on his rookie deal, and a potentially better fit, he gets more time. 

[Thurman#1]

8 hours ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

I watched some of the highlights of last year and Moss looked good early in the year, which I had completely forgotten. Epenesa either steps it up this year or might get cut since we can save some money next year by cutting him, but I bet he is on team this year at least. As for Ford I think he is at the point where all that matters is his play, he is past the point where "potential" matters. I do think he makes team as last lineman but someone could jump him 

 

 

Yeah, and he had a lot of good carries as a rookie too.

 

Nobody should be saying he's never looked good. But it's fair enough to say he hasn't looked good recently. It'll depend how he looks this coming year and my guess is he looks good. But that's a guess.

[maddenboy]

25 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

This is about where I stand. I think they're probably all three on the roster, though I would say the most likely cut/trade would be Ford rather than Moss. But we'll see.

I think Moss is most likely to be traded, than the others.  Epenesa second

 

Moss has a verfiable skill that is not potential.  Pass blocking / blitz recognition and pickup.  That is something that a team can use Now.  Whether it is a need for a team would be the main factor, i think.

 

Epenesa's value is that teams will conclude that the Bills made a mistake in his development but he's still young and still hungry.  And obviously coachable if he agreed to entirely change his body at the urging of the Bills.

 

Ford?  what trade value could he possibly have at all?

 

 

(and not picking on you personally.  And not unaware of "cut/trade" and your intended meaning.  But i think you should have ended at the word "cut."  For either Moss or Eppy, the term "cut/trade" would be appropriate, i think)

 

 

Edited June 25, 2022 by maddenboy

[Thurman#1]

Just now, maddenboy said:

I think Moss is most likely to be traded, than the others.  Epenesa second

 

Moss has a verfiable skill that is not potential.  Pass blocking / blitz recognition and pickup.  That is something that a team can use Now.  Whether it is a need for a team would be the main factor, i think.

 

Epenesa's value is that teams will conclude that the Bills made a mistake in his development but he's still young and still hungry.  And obviously coachable if he agreed to entirely change his body at the urging of the Bills.

 

Ford?  what trade value could he possibly have at all?

 

 

What trade value could Ford have? A 7th, maybe. A 6th maybe. Maybe not, but maybe. He's a strong guy, a good run blocker. Appears heavy-footed, though. Probably not starting quality on many teams but likely backup quality on quite a few, and very possibly the Bills will be included in that group.

 

I just disagree about Moss. And will continue to do so unless he starts looking bad in camp. Moss is indeed an excellent pass blocker, but he's also showed himself to be a good runner. But inconsistently. I think Moss could probably draw interest. But that he's simply more valuable to the Bills than to any other team.

[maddenboy]

1 minute ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

What trade value could Ford have? A 7th, maybe. A 6th maybe. Maybe not, but maybe. He's a strong guy, a good run blocker. Appears heavy-footed, though. Probably not starting quality on many teams but likely backup quality on quite a few, and very possibly the Bills will be included in that group.

fair.

 

Except if i'm another team, I'd be comparing him to all of the similar players that got released at final cuts, before i even begin to value Ford.  So i dont mean "what would he fetch if we found a partner" but rather "how could we have an argument that he has any worth in trade?" that would make a team not wanna gamble that he clears waivers or is otherwise obtainable after the Bills cut him.

[Chandler#81]

9 hours ago, BillsShredder83 said:

I think it's fair to put some of this on Beane taking some chances and swinging for the fences. To look at these as isolated incidents, will look bad.

 

However, when you look at some of the other picks we've made that thrive, they may not hsve been possible with the mindset that comes with drafting to -not have a bust.

Good response. Remember, AJ was a real surprise still being on the Board as it was claimed the Bills and other teams had a 1st Round caliber tag on him. So I agree he’s getting a mulligan for committing to the teams’ desire that he completely alter his body for what they believe will best benefit him and the team.

[BillsShredder83]

5 hours ago, maddenboy said:

fair.

 

Except if i'm another team, I'd be comparing him to all of the similar players that got released at final cuts, before i even begin to value Ford.  So i dont mean "what would he fetch if we found a partner" but rather "how could we have an argument that he has any worth in trade?" that would make a team not wanna gamble that he clears waivers or is otherwise obtainable after the Bills cut him.

High draft pedigree. Teams always seem willing to take flyers on these guys as reclamation projects. Especially if I see Bills OL coach being junk, and I believe my coach is better. Probably several teams that fit that, just depends on if any have a need and spare draft capital.

[newcam2012]

On 6/24/2022 at 1:56 AM, BillsFanForever19 said:

It wouldn't shock me to see them move on from Cody Ford or Zack Moss this summer. AJ Epenesa? No way. 

What do you see in Epanesa? 

[newcam2012]

4 hours ago, Chandler#81 said:

Good response. Remember, AJ was a real surprise still being on the Board as it was claimed the Bills and other teams had a 1st Round caliber tag on him. So I agree he’s getting a mulligan for committing to the teams’ desire that he completely alter his body for what they believe will best benefit him and the team.

No AJ fan here. I don't think he is very good. He's had amply opportunity to prove himself. He's fallen short by all accounts. I know often his position takes some time to develop and see the positive results. Look at Oliver as an example. I'm hopeful on AJ but I doubt he is anything but a role player. Not what Bills fans expected when he was drafted. 

[Orlando Buffalo]

6 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Yeah, and he had a lot of good carries as a rookie too.

 

Nobody should be saying he's never looked good. But it's fair enough to say he hasn't looked good recently. It'll depend how he looks this coming year and my guess is he looks good. But that's a guess.

When it comes to Moss I had completely forgotten what he brings, I am wondering if they can do a three headed monster this year or maybe rotate Singletary and Moss by the week to keep them fresh. I don't think either is built to be a 17 week workhorse, but then again I only think there are 3 or 4 guys like that in entire league 

[Magox]

They are all definitely on the hot seat.

 

I would suspect that Epenesa and Moss are in safer ground than Ford but any of the three could get axed if a combination of either them not showing growth and/or the competition for their positional battles ascend.

 

Either way the depth on this team has increased in all three of those areas Oline, Dline and Rb and that is a good thing.