Josh Allen is Rob Johnson's doppelgänger

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, Doc said:

 

Sure, RJ was a bust because he was injury-prone and played like he wanted to preserve his fantasy stats, but the bolded isn't even close to being true.  But the truth is despite the struggles that game, RJ left the field with the lead only to see a blown call lose it for the team.

 

And the point was take a look at the points scored by Mark Brunell and Peyton Manning in the playoff games that followed that one.  And those guys were at home, no less, not on the road where the Titans were undefeated.

RJs fantasy numbers?! Lol—That’s a joke right?  He had none—unless “sack%” is worth fantasy points.  

Good one!

The more he passed the worse he got.  He was to slow to get away from pressure.  He was never a legitimate passer.  He was terrible nor in the first half of that game.  One of the worst halfs of ball in Bills history until NP caught McDs eye.

[Doc]

5 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

RJs fantasy numbers?! Lol—That’s a joke right?  He had none—unless “sack%” is worth fantasy points.  

Good one!

The more he passed the worse he got.  He was to slow to get away from pressure.  He was never a legitimate passer.  He was terrible nor in the first half of that game.  One of the worst halfs of ball in Bills history until NP caught McDs eye.

 

Yeah, had nothing to do with the Titans' defense, right?  Considering Manning and Brunell scored 16 and 14 points respectively in the following games, again at home and not in Tennessee where they were undefeated.

[Mr. WEO]

34 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

I'm not propping anything up..........you are just making the mistake of box score scouting by applying todays standards to yesterdays numbers.

 

Again 57% wasn't "abysmal" in 2000.........it ranked him slightly higher(23rd) in the league than Josh Allen ranked(24th) in 2021.

 

In 1999 only 7 NFL QB's had a completion % of 60 or more.........33 QB's had 60% or higher in 2020.......the season where Josh Allen had his only top 20 completion % season.    

 

The point is that passing statistics do not tell the story on either of these QB's.........especially not the non-volume one's you cherry picked.

57% is abysmal in any era.  You can’t convincingly argue otherwise.  He was  10 full % points behind the leader.  
 

I’ve offered several stats that show RJ was awful.   The more he passed the worse he got.  He got sacked with abandon.  He struggled to throw for over 100 yards a game.  Those are bad stats in the 1990s. 
 

 

3 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Yeah, had nothing to do with the Titans' defense, right?  Considering Manning and Brunell scored 16 and 14 points respectively in the following games, again at home and not in Tennessee where they were undefeated.

Good defense for sure.  Awful QB. 

[BADOLBILZ]

12 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

57% is abysmal in any era.  You can’t convincingly argue otherwise.  He was  10 full % points behind the leader.  
 

I’ve offered several stats that show RJ was awful.   The more he passed the worse he got.  He got sacked with abandon.  He struggled to throw for over 100 yards a game.  Those are bad stats in the 1990s. 
 

 

Good defense for sure.  Awful QB. 

 

 

League average completion percentage was 58.2 in 2000.........it was 64.8 in 2021.

 

So no.......the numbers don't translate........averages have jumped almost 7%.   (The fan-less 2020 season was closer to 66% completion on average)

 

Rojo was a point below average in 2000 and Allen was about a point and a half below in 2021............which is why the rankings of 23rd and 24th that I gave you obviously translate.

 

But keep thinking you are telling a story using these stats.

 

And for the record..........Jim Kelly was the AFC offensive player of the year in 1995 with just a 55.8 completion %.   Maybe his most impressive season given the lack of personnel in the passing game.

 

He had only 4 seasons over 60% completion in his 11 year NFL career.

 

You literally don't know what you are talking about.

[Doc Brown]

On 6/16/2022 at 7:42 PM, BADOLBILZ said:

Would have been interesting to see how Rojo would have fared in a post 2010 NFL.........an era when it's basically illegal to hit QB's.    I wouldn't be astonished to see him be a version of Pad Statford in his Lions days.   It is just far easier to play the position now and athleticism like Rojo had pays higher dividends.   There are guys getting paid handsomely like Baker Mayfield and Kyler Murray who would have struggled to have a single good game in their career if they played in the late 90's, IMO.

Just watch Daniel Jones every Sunday.

[BADOLBILZ]

8 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

Just watch Daniel Jones every Sunday.

 

 

Daniel Jones was an athlete that is being turned into a QB..........he was a lousy passer at Duke.   Sub 60% and in the 6's per attempt despite playing for Cutcliffe.

 

Rob Johnson was a great thrower of the ball who was also an athlete.   Even in the early 90's he was a 65% passer with over 8 yards per attempt at USC.   Truly gifted thrower of the ball.

 

I get where you are going but there is a misconception out there that Jones was a successful college QB that hasn't translated...........his ability to pass well enough in the NFL was always a question.

[Doc Brown]

11 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Daniel Jones was an athlete that is being turned into a QB..........he was a lousy passer at Duke.   Sub 60% and in the 6's per attempt despite playing for Cutcliffe.

 

Rob Johnson was a great thrower of the ball who was also an athlete.   Even in the early 90's he was a 65% passer with over 8 yards per attempt at USC.   Truly gifted thrower of the ball.

 

I get where you are going but there is a misconception out there that Jones was a successful college QB that hasn't translated...........his ability to pass well enough in the NFL was always a question.

My memory is a little fuzzy but with those traits and numbers why was Johnson a 4th round pick?  I remember him being touted as a developmental prospect.  Just looking at their NFL careers in a vacuum I see a lot similarities. between him and Jones.

[BADOLBILZ]

3 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

My memory is a little fuzzy but with those traits and numbers why was Johnson a 4th round pick?  I remember him being touted as a developmental prospect.  Just looking at their NFL careers in a vacuum I see a lot similarities. between him and Jones.

 

"The knock is that he is not a good comeback or pressure player. Perhaps it hurt him that he never beat Notre Dame or UCLA."

 

Johnson's makeup was always in question.

 

Scouts were right that something was clearly off about him..........but they had it backwards...........he was good in the clutch or when he got put back in the lineup and had something to prove..........it was EVERYTHING ELSE about having the personality of a franchise QB that he couldn't handle.

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

League average completion percentage was 58.2 in 2000.........it was 64.8 in 2021.

 

So no.......the numbers don't translate........averages have jumped almost 7%.   (The fan-less 2020 season was closer to 66% completion on average)

 

Rojo was a point below average in 2000 and Allen was about a point and a half below in 2021............which is why the rankings of 23rd and 24th that I gave you obviously translate.

 

But keep thinking you are telling a story using these stats.

 

And for the record..........Jim Kelly was the AFC offensive player of the year in 1995 with just a 55.8 completion %.   Maybe his most impressive season given the lack of personnel in the passing game.

 

He had only 4 seasons over 60% completion in his 11 year NFL career.

 

You literally don't know what you are talking about.

55% is bad..  Kelly was 24th that year.  Only 3100 yards. Favre was orders of magnitude better than Kelly that year—not even close. 
 

Jim Harbaugh was 1995 UPI AFC Offensive Player of the Year.

 

Bu by all means keep comparing RJ to “cherry picked stats” of HOF Jim Kelly and superstar Josh Allen to explain your weird pump up of this really bad WB,  while simultaneously telling me that I am cherry picking stats 

[BADOLBILZ]

9 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

55% is bad..  Kelly was 24th that year.  Only 3100 yards. Favre was orders of magnitude better than Kelly that year—not even close. 
 

Jim Harbaugh was 1995 UPI AFC Offensive Player of the Year.

 

Bu by all means keep comparing RJ to “cherry picked stats” of HOF Jim Kelly and superstar Josh Allen to explain your weird pump up of this really bad WB,  while simultaneously telling me that I am cherry picking stats 

 

So being 24th in the NFL in completion % is bad?

 

Because that's where Josh Allen ranked last year.

 

Are you saying Josh Allen was a bad QB last season?

 

Maybe the stats you are choosing are poor choices.

 

You are totally f*cking beat in this discussion and just looking dumber with each successive entry.........put in the reserves.

 

[SoTier]

3 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

So being 24th in the NFL in completion % is bad?

 

Because that's where Josh Allen ranked last year.

 

Are you saying Josh Allen was a bad QB last season?

 

Maybe the stats you are choosing are poor choices.

 

You are totally f*cking beat in this discussion and just looking dumber with each successive entry.........put in the reserves.

 

 

Is there some point to your continuing attempts to "prove" Rob Johnson wasn't a crappy QB?    I mean, other than your need to argue contrarian positions that aren't supported by facts in order to demonstrated your superiority to everybody else.

 

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

On 6/17/2022 at 8:35 AM, Mr. WEO said:

 

This has been repeated by many and it is a very weak argument.  RJ was awful that day (so was McNair--the worst 2 QB performances in a playoff game I have ever seen).  He completed 10 passes (of 22) for 130 and took 6 sacks and fumbled 3 times!

 

First half: punt, sack/fumble (missed Del Greco FG), punt, sack/fumble/safety, punt, punt, punt.  He completed 5 passes---only 1 in the entire 2nd Q.

 

His incredibly bad play in that half  is why the Bills were stuck playing catchup in the 4th.  McNair was so bad that any decent QB could have put the Bills comfortably ahead in the 1st half. 

And how many games has Flutie had just like that where he was carried by an elite defense and he did just enough to win? 

[JohnNord]

If you take a look at Rob Johnson when under pressure the comparisons will immediately stop 

[BuffaloTX]

Jeez...Johnsons highlight video was longer than I thought...

[Mr. WEO]

18 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

So being 24th in the NFL in completion % is bad?

 

Because that's where Josh Allen ranked last year.

 

Are you saying Josh Allen was a bad QB last season?

 

Maybe the stats you are choosing are poor choices.

 

You are totally f*cking beat in this discussion and just looking dumber with each successive entry.........put in the reserves.

 

 

55% is bad.  so is 57%. 

 

But because Josh Allen was 24th in completion %, RJ was not an awful QB.

 

I see that direct line you are now drawing between the 2 QBs makes so much sense now.   It's beautiful....

 

 

 

 

11 hours ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

And how many games has Flutie had just like that where he was carried by an elite defense and he did just enough to win? 

 

 

It's a positive integer.

[BigAl2526]

On 6/16/2022 at 7:04 PM, MJS said:

Rob was a traits guy. Just didn't have it as a leader, as a contender, etc.

I agree that Rob Johnson was a traits guy, but I also think that his development was poorly handled by the Buffalo coaching staff at the time. There is no way to know whether or not he might have developed into something more.   At this point inn history, it's water long under the bridge.  I don't worry about it any more.

[MJS]

2 hours ago, BigAl2526 said:

I agree that Rob Johnson was a traits guy, but I also think that his development was poorly handled by the Buffalo coaching staff at the time. There is no way to know whether or not he might have developed into something more.   At this point inn history, it's water long under the bridge.  I don't worry about it any more.

He sucked. That's on him. He obviously didn't have what it took mentally. Physical tools don't matter if you don't have the intangibles as a QB.

[BADOLBILZ]

On 6/19/2022 at 10:56 AM, Mr. WEO said:

 

55% is bad.  so is 57%. 

 

But because Josh Allen was 24th in completion %, RJ was not an awful QB.

 

 

 

Again, never said Rojo wasn't a failure.

 

But QB numbers are relative to the league averages of the day.

 

You just refuse to admit that league average completion % has risen almost 7 points since 2000.........58% in 2000 scales to 65% in 2021.

 

And beyond that you think that the stat means more than it does.

 

1992 Jim Kelly 58.2% (league average was 57.5%)...... less than 1 point above average and was named All Pro

 

2000 Rob Johnson 57.2% in 2000 (58.2%.).....1 point below average

 

2021 Josh Allen was 63.3% (64.8.%)........1.5 points below average and was generally regarded as one of the best in the NFL.

 

 

 

 

Edited June 21, 2022 by BADOLBILZ

[Mr. WEO]

27 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Again, never said Rojo wasn't a failure.

 

But QB numbers are relative to the league averages of the day.

 

You just refuse to admit that league average completion % has risen almost 7 points since 2020.........58% in 2000 scales to 65% in 2021.

 

And beyond that you think that the stat means more than it does.

 

1992 Jim Kelly 58.2% (league average was 57.5%)...... less than 1 point above average and was named All Pro

 

2000 Rob Johnson 57.2% in 2000 (58.2%.).....1 point below average

 

2021 Josh Allen was 63.3% (64.8.%)........1.5 points below average and was generally regarded as one of the best in the NFL.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I refuse to admit that a QB who couldn't win many games, could throw for many yards or TDs and couldn't evade a sack can be compared in a meaningful way to Kelly or Allen based on a "cherry picked stat" of completion % (of under 60% no less).  

 

 

If the best you can say about RJ is that in 2000, he was "nearly average" in completion %, so he was just like Jim Kelly before him and Josh Allen after him then have at it lol.  It's not a point worth making.  

 

He sucked, by all measures.

 

 

[Canadian Bills Fan]

On 6/16/2022 at 6:51 PM, Einstein said:

Just watched this again on YouTube and had a good laugh. Its uncanny how similar some of the plays are.