Josh Allen is Rob Johnson's doppelgänger

[Mr. WEO]

10 hours ago, That's No Moon said:

And yet, he completed a pass on the run without a shoe on to put the team in FG position that should have won the game, on the road, against a really good Titans team. 

 

This has been repeated by many and it is a very weak argument.  RJ was awful that day (so was McNair--the worst 2 QB performances in a playoff game I have ever seen).  He completed 10 passes (of 22) for 130 and took 6 sacks and fumbled 3 times!

 

First half: punt, sack/fumble (missed Del Greco FG), punt, sack/fumble/safety, punt, punt, punt.  He completed 5 passes---only 1 in the entire 2nd Q.

 

His incredibly bad play in that half  is why the Bills were stuck playing catchup in the 4th.  McNair was so bad that any decent QB could have put the Bills comfortably ahead in the 1st half. 

[MJS]

3 hours ago, Dan Darragh said:

or as a football player

That too.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

4 hours ago, Dan Darragh said:

or as a football player

"Pile-on"?

 

Really?

 

And using "RJ" for anything other than the Sabres is blasphemy.

whoops— sorry, spelling police! “Pylon.”

[extrahammer]

IMO the video maker totally redeemed themselves with the Lion King video. 

[GerstAusGosheim]

There are a lot of really intelligent Bills fans on this board. Still can't believe half of them were for Rob Johnson.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

21 minutes ago, GerstAusGosheim said:

There are a lot of really intelligent Bills fans on this board. Still can't believe half of them were for Rob Johnson.

haha— I still love RJ! At one time, I owned an RJ jersey and three RJ shirts. I  actually still might have all that stuff in the attic. 

[That's No Moon]

5 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

This has been repeated by many and it is a very weak argument.  RJ was awful that day (so was McNair--the worst 2 QB performances in a playoff game I have ever seen).  He completed 10 passes (of 22) for 130 and took 6 sacks and fumbled 3 times!

 

First half: punt, sack/fumble (missed Del Greco FG), punt, sack/fumble/safety, punt, punt, punt.  He completed 5 passes---only 1 in the entire 2nd Q.

 

His incredibly bad play in that half  is why the Bills were stuck playing catchup in the 4th.  McNair was so bad that any decent QB could have put the Bills comfortably ahead in the 1st half. 

It was in response to the comment that his switch was always in the OFF position.  It wasn't. He wasn't good, but it's fair to wonder if he'd be thought of at all differently if they'd covered that kickoff and made it to the Super Bowl that year.

[Einstein]

2 hours ago, That's No Moon said:

It was in response to the comment that his switch was always in the OFF position.  It wasn't. He wasn't good, but it's fair to wonder if he'd be thought of at all differently if they'd covered that kickoff and made it to the Super Bowl that year.

 

We don’t think any less of Allen because of how poorly the 13 seconds were managed…

[Mr. WEO]

6 hours ago, That's No Moon said:

It was in response to the comment that his switch was always in the OFF position.  It wasn't. He wasn't good, but it's fair to wonder if he'd be thought of at all differently if they'd covered that kickoff and made it to the Super Bowl that year.

it would have made the Bills the NFLs only 5 time SB losers. 
 

Anyway he was terrible. His career stats tell you this.  In his 2 seasons where he was sort of the starter, he had under 7 YPA.  Completed barely 60% of his passes for only 30 career TDS.He appeared in only 48 games and 29 starts, yet he was sacked 140 times. 

Despite being described as a “WR-type athlete”, he couldn’t pass and could not fit the life of him, avoid a sack.  

[That's No Moon]

3 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

it would have made the Bills the NFLs only 5 time SB losers. 

Whatever. I watched that game with a mouth full of stitches and a brain full of oxycodone (I had 4 wisdom teeth pulled the day before) so any memories I have of it should be taken with large grains of salt.

[Cash]

FWIW, I was Team Flutie all the way at the time, and to some extent I still am. But I have no hate for “Hot Tub Rob” - just sympathy. We both would’ve been happier if he had been better! And it’s because of him that I first started learning how big an effect the QB can have on how the O-line looks. 

 

I’ll admit I didn’t like RJ from the start and was biased against him. But he never showed me anything to change my opinion. Great at hitting open WRs when he has time to let them shake their man, and pretty good on the move, and that’s about it. And on top of that, he couldn’t stay on the field. Not entirely his fault - sure he took a lot of hits from holding on to the ball too long, but he also seemed to be impacted by the hits more than most QBs. Even if he’d cleaned up his pocket awareness, I doubt he would’ve had a long career. 
 

By the way, I was EVEN MORE biased against Josh Allen when we drafted him - I had bought the analytics arguments without ever pressure testing them, and I still have no idea how to translate his Wyoming tape to the NFL. (I haven’t watched college football in years.) But he had mostly changed my mind by the end of his rookie season.
 

Going into year 2, I was “interested to see how he looks this year.”

Going into year 3, I was “optimistic.” (Still cautiously though, because I’ll always brace for failure unless/until we win the Super Bowl.) 

Going into year 4, I was no longer optimistic; I was all but certain that Allen is the real deal. 
Going into year 5, I’m fully certain that he’s the real deal. His prime won’t last forever, but it’s here now and I’ll enjoy it as long as it lasts.

[BADOLBILZ]

4 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

In his 2 seasons where he was sort of the starter, he had under 7 YPA.  Completed barely 60% of his passes for only 30 career TDS.

 

 

You do realize that even in this era of inflated passing statistics Josh Allen has had a YPA under 7 in 3 of his 4 seasons?    

 

Including last season (6.8).

 

And Josh Allen had just a 63% completion rate last year.........which ranked 24th in the league.    

 

By comparison Rob Johnson ranked 23rd in the NFL in completion % in 2000 and 7th in 2001.

 

In the 1998 and 1999 seasons in his limited work Rob Johnson had numbers for completion % and ypa that would have both been top 3 in the entire NFL.  

 

Obviously,  he didn't play nearly enough to qualify but the stats that were his biggest problem were games played and finished.

 

I'm not equating the two but you are really clueless about the statistics and their meaning. 

Edited June 18, 2022 by BADOLBILZ

[Buffalo Barbarian]

On 6/16/2022 at 6:51 PM, Einstein said:

Just watched this again on YouTube and had a good laugh. Its uncanny how similar some of the plays are. 

 

 

 

The New and Improved much better version

 

 

[Doc]

23 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

This has been repeated by many and it is a very weak argument.  RJ was awful that day (so was McNair--the worst 2 QB performances in a playoff game I have ever seen).  He completed 10 passes (of 22) for 130 and took 6 sacks and fumbled 3 times!

 

First half: punt, sack/fumble (missed Del Greco FG), punt, sack/fumble/safety, punt, punt, punt.  He completed 5 passes---only 1 in the entire 2nd Q.

 

His incredibly bad play in that half  is why the Bills were stuck playing catchup in the 4th.  McNair was so bad that any decent QB could have put the Bills comfortably ahead in the 1st half. 

 

Like, say, Mark Brunell or Peyton Manning?

 

[Mr. WEO]

11 hours ago, That's No Moon said:

Whatever. I watched that game with a mouth full of stitches and a brain full of oxycodone (I had 4 wisdom teeth pulled the day before) so any memories I have of it should be taken with large grains of salt.

 

This is the only way to safely enjoy RJ

[Mr. WEO]

10 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

You do realize that even in this era of inflated passing statistics Josh Allen has had a YPA under 7 in 3 of his 4 seasons?    

 

Including last season (6.8).

 

And Josh Allen had just a 63% completion rate last year.........which ranked 24th in the league.    

 

By comparison Rob Johnson ranked 23rd in the NFL in completion % in 2000 and 7th in 2001.

 

In the 1998 and 1999 seasons in his limited work Rob Johnson had numbers for completion % and ypa that would have both been top 3 in the entire NFL.  

 

Obviously,  he didn't play nearly enough to qualify but the stats that were his biggest problem were games played and finished.

 

I'm not equating the two but you are really clueless about the statistics and their meaning. 

 

lol 

 

RJ's 23rd passing % was an abysmal 57% in 2000.  1998 he barely got 100 attempts--he averaged a measly 114 ypg---and yet he still took 29 sacks for an insane 21% sack rate!

 

1999?  LOL---"limited work"???.  he started 1 game--you're going to prop him up with that "73.5%" and "8.5 YPA"?? why not throw in that record breaking "season" he had in 1997??

 

The bolded parts you say without any sense of irony--so that's why it's funny.  Also ironic is that you have made an excellent argument that RJ was a much better QB when he hardly attempted to throw the ball at all!  I'm in agreement with you there...

 

he was awful.

 

3 hours ago, Doc said:

 

Like, say, Mark Brunell or Peyton Manning?

 

 

Manning at his worst didn't have a half equal to RJ at his best.  Look back on that sequence of possessions--RJ in a nutshell.

[Doc]

53 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

Manning at his worst didn't have a half equal to RJ at his best.  Look back on that sequence of possessions--RJ in a nutshell.

 

Sure, RJ was a bust because he was injury-prone and played like he wanted to preserve his fantasy stats, but the bolded isn't even close to being true.  But the truth is despite the struggles that game, RJ left the field with the lead only to see a blown call lose it for the team.

 

And the point was take a look at the points scored by Mark Brunell and Peyton Manning in the playoff games that followed that one.  And those guys were at home, no less, not on the road where the Titans were undefeated.

Edited June 18, 2022 by Doc

[SoTier]

IMO, Rob Johnson is more of a Trent Edwards "doppelganger" than a Josh Allen "doppelganger".

 

Johnson and Edwards suffered from the same issue:  they couldn't read defenses well and couldn't process what they did see fast enough to be effective.  That's why they were inconsistent, mostly playing poorly but sometimes looking like they were actually competent QBs when playing against crappy defenses or when defenses went into "prevent" mode or when, like the proverbial blind squirrel, they luckily found a nut.  They were both sacked so often because they held the ball too long.  No amount of physical talent can make up for the lack of a QB being able to recognize defenses quickly and accurately and make good decisions based on what they see.

 

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

RJ's 23rd passing % was an abysmal 57% in 2000.  1998 he barely got 100 attempts--he averaged a measly 114 ypg---and yet he still took 29 sacks for an insane 21% sack rate!

 

1999?  LOL---"limited work"???.  he started 1 game--you're going to prop him up with that "73.5%" and "8.5 YPA"?? why not throw in that record breaking "season" he had in 1997??

 

 

 

I'm not propping anything up..........you are just making the mistake of box score scouting by applying todays standards to yesterdays numbers.

 

Again 57% wasn't "abysmal" in 2000.........it ranked him slightly higher(23rd) in the league than Josh Allen ranked(24th) in 2021.

 

In 1999 only 7 NFL QB's had a completion % of 60 or more.........33 QB's had 60% or higher in 2020.......the season where Josh Allen had his only top 20 completion % season.    

 

The point is that passing statistics do not tell the story on either of these QB's.........especially not the non-volume one's you cherry picked.

Edited June 18, 2022 by BADOLBILZ

[The Firebaugh Kid]

I'm so sorry, but you are high af.