Your Top 3 Players from the "Drought Era" you'd add to the current roster

[Shaw66]

30 minutes ago, Sheneneh Jenkins said:

The Bills is what I was referring to. You're previous post you stated it was fact while he was on Bills and that's where you're incorrect. And here you now say you don't remember while with the Bills.  So that's where it was questioned I believe.

 

fair enough.  i know he did it with the Eagles, but I can't say for sure about the Bills.  

[Rico]

Even after all these years, people still don’t know how to spell Ruben Brown’s name. 

[Saxum]

1 hour ago, Shaw66 said:

It IS a fact that as a player he left multiple games with injuries and returned later.  I saw it.   It was, as I said, predictable.   He did it a lot.   I don't remember if he did it with the Bills, but I know he did it with the Eagles.  I saw it.  

That's the basis of my opinion that he is not one of the top 3 guys that I would add to the team. 

 

Availability is one of the most important attributes of players.

 

And a laywer who did not play games with Bills.

[JerseyBills]

Super Mario opposite Von

Winfield opposite Tre

Eric Moulds opposite Diggs

🔥

 

[BADOLBILZ]

5 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

Man, you guys are really worked up.   I just have opinion about the guy, and it's different from your opinion.  

 

You keep going back and forth between whether it's your opinion or a fact depending on what's convenient.

 

What you've said is not factual.

 

Is it your opinion.......as a homer who will make up utter nonsense to further that agenda?

 

Probably so, yes.

 

But you could also have just misremembered because that's just how you want to remember the player.

 

Just learn to recognize your own BS, please.

 

Players leave games injured at times.    Josh Allen once left a closely contested and critical home game against the Patriots and Barkley came in and sh*t himself and the Bills lost that critical game.   Happened against Houston too and Peterman came in and was a disaster in defeat.    Did you see any bones snap in those instances?   How are we to be certain he was hurt that bad and Peters wasn't in situations where he might have left the field?   I'm sure you'd find it ridiculous to question JA's toughness though.

[BADOLBILZ]

43 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Yea… You’d be an utter idiot not to want to add a hall of fame LT to this roster…. But you do you. 

 

Back in those dark ages of Donahoe/Levy/Brandon as GM's we used to see some ridiculously misdirected crusades against players on TSW.     Peters was one that a lot of posters were always looking to contrive any excuse to bash.    People like Shaw just can't let it go.

 

But one of the more fervent crusades was the hate against Bryant McKinnie.........because their Lord and Savior Tom Donahoe chose to select a slovenly bum RT with a bummier knee......Mike Williams.........instead of the broadly accepted #1 LT in the draft in McKinnie.      The McKinnie hate watching continued long after Mike Williams very brief and lousy career.    McKinnie didn't turn into a HOF'er like Peters but he did become a long time stud LT.

 

 

Edited June 8, 2022 by BADOLBILZ

[Rico]

11 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Back in those dark ages of Donahoe/Levy/Brandon as GM's we used to see some ridiculously misdirected crusades against players on TSW.     Peters was one that a lot of posters were always looking to contrive any excuse to bash.    People like Shaw just can't let it go.

 

But one of the more fervent crusades was the hate against Bryant McKinnie.........because their Lord and Savior Tom Donahoe chose to select a slovenly bum RT with a bummier knee......Mike Williams.........instead of the broadly accepted #1 LT in the draft in McKinnie.      The McKinnie hate watching continued long after Mike Williams very brief and lousy career.    McKinnie didn't turn into a HOF'er like Peters but he did become a long time stud LT.

 

 

Don’t forget Nate Clements, a total phenom of a CB, absolute stud. Jags made a great play to win Week 1 in 2004 against him, and all you heard for weeks was “friggin’ Playmaker”. 

[cba fan]

On 6/3/2022 at 3:21 PM, BigDingus said:

So I saw this question on Twitter & thought I'd ask it here just for fun.  What 3 players from 2000-2017 era of no playoffs would you guys choose to replace a current roster member with?  Also, which specific known starters would you replace with them?

 

**********

 

1. Takeo Spikes, LB - He normally played ILB, but I'd replace Milano as I'd prefer to see him & Edmunds on the field together. But if it came down to it, I'd take him over Edmunds too.

2. Ruben Brown, LG - He sometimes was called "overrated" by fans, but the guy made 8x Pro Bowls & 4x 2nd team All Pro on the Bills. He made the playoffs, but he played for us until signing with the Bears in 2004. I'd replace Ryan Bates & hope Saffold can play RG 😁

3. Marshawn Lynch, RB - There's a lot of good picks for RB, but I think having a really powerful, hard to tackle back that can get those tough yards would be best. I know the conventional wisdom would suggest someone good at catching the ball & be a dual receiving threat, but I think Lynch would kill it in this setup. The field is so spread out, he'd have a field day, and Josh would be the additional running threat if plays break down. Plus, there are just those short yardage situations you'd prefer to have Lynch over a QB sneak or a more shifty guy like Shady. 

 

**********

 

Anyway, I really wanted to put Kyle Williams on the list, or an underrated guy like Terrance McGee who was a strong CB & ST guy (CB in particular has some nice candidates), but these are the 3 I'd love to take most. 

 

Like Brown, Kyle Williams also was not from the drought years. He made playoffs.......😎😂

 

I would take Jason Peters, Spikes, Lynch. Drought year guys. That was the assignment. 

[Awwufelloff]

Mario Williams, Marshawn lynch, Eric moulds. 

[Bill from NYC]

On 6/6/2022 at 5:11 PM, Shaw66 said:

There is no such thing, so far as I know, as a "right tackle contract" and a "left tackle contract."   He signed a contract to play for the Bills, and the fact that his position changed didn't give him any additional rights.   He was just like any other player who signed a contract and then got better.   If he'd believed in himself and how much better he was going to get, he wouldn't have signed the contract.  

 

I don't understand this. He was NOT "just like any other player." He was a GREAT player at one of the 3 (if not 2) most important positions. He was easily the best player on the team.

The Bills trade of Jason Peters was one of the most things that I ever saw the Bills do, which says quite a bit. It was perhaps even dumber than drafting Whitner, passing on McKinney for Mike Williams, or even hiring Marv Levy as GM. 

[Bill from NYC]

6 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Back in those dark ages of Donahoe/Levy/Brandon as GM's we used to see some ridiculously misdirected crusades against players on TSW.     Peters was one that a lot of posters were always looking to contrive any excuse to bash.    People like Shaw just can't let it go.

 

But one of the more fervent crusades was the hate against Bryant McKinnie.........because their Lord and Savior Tom Donahoe chose to select a slovenly bum RT with a bummier knee......Mike Williams.........instead of the broadly accepted #1 LT in the draft in McKinnie.      The McKinnie hate watching continued long after Mike Williams very brief and lousy career.    McKinnie didn't turn into a HOF'er like Peters but he did become a long time stud LT.

 

 

Iirc, Williams also had a pretty bad ankle injury. Not good for a 360 pound (at least) RIGHT tackle (his position at Texas). For some reason Donohoe hated McKinnie and so did many posters. Williams sucked, and McKinnie had a long successful career as a prominent NFL LT.

 

I truly believe that the Bills neglected the OL for so very long that many Bills fans are conditioned to look past the importance of blocking to this very day. 

 

 

 

[BADOLBILZ]

5 hours ago, Bill from NYC said:

Iirc, Williams also had a pretty bad ankle injury. Not good for a 360 pound (at least) RIGHT tackle (his position at Texas). For some reason Donohoe hated McKinnie and so did many posters. Williams sucked, and McKinnie had a long successful career as a prominent NFL LT.

 

I truly believe that the Bills neglected the OL for so very long that many Bills fans are conditioned to look past the importance of blocking to this very day. 

 

 

 

 

 

They actually had a lot of "Left Tackle Luck" in that Donahoe period too.

 

 In the last Dwight Adams draft(Donahoe's first) they drafted Jonas Jennings and he was a really talented player..........I believe his rookie season he started at RT and didn't allow a sack.    He was every bit the blocker that Dion Dawkins is today(and probably even better in pass pro) but he was constantly leaving the field injured.

 

Then they had a chance to select McKinnie.........who was considered a slam dunk pick to the Bills.......even in the fall prior to that draft.   SHOUT! magazine had an issue that fall with McKinnie on the cover LOL.   Hard to emphasize enough how OBVIOUS it was that he be the Bills first draft pick.  

 

But even after the Williams pick blunder,  Jennings moved to LT and played well.   But after they struck gold with Peters in UDFA they couldn't justify re-signing the too-oft-injured Jennings once Peters emerged.   Having 3 talented LT's like that should have been a blessing but by 2009 the Bills were LT-bankrupt and starting "Da'Mattress" Bell.    That 2009 OL might have been an all-time low point for Bills OL play.    I believe there was a stat presented during the opener that the Bills OL had the least combined starts of any opening day OL to play in the NFL since the merger.    

[GunnerBill]

5 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

They actually had a lot of "Left Tackle Luck" in that Donahoe period too.

 

 In the last Dwight Adams draft(Donahoe's first) they drafted Jonas Jennings and he was a really talented player..........I believe his rookie season he started at RT and didn't allow a sack.    He was every bit the blocker that Dion Dawkins is today(and probably even better in pass pro) but he was constantly leaving the field injured.

 

Then they had a chance to select McKinnie.........who was considered a slam dunk pick to the Bills.......even in the fall prior to that draft.   SHOUT! magazine had an issue that fall with McKinnie on the cover LOL.   Hard to emphasize enough how OBVIOUS it was that he be the Bills first draft pick.  

 

But even after the Williams pick blunder,  Jennings moved to LT and played well.   But after they struck gold with Peters in UDFA they couldn't justify re-signing the too-oft-injured Jennings once Peters emerged.   Having 3 talented LT's like that should have been a blessing but by 2009 the Bills were LT-bankrupt and starting "Da'Mattress" Bell.    That 2009 OL might have been an all-time low point for Bills OL play.    I believe there was a stat presented during the opener that the Bills OL had the least combined starts of any opening day OL to play in the NFL since the merger.    

 

And there was a rough patch there for 3 years but we then went in 2012 to Cordy Glenn who was a top 10 LT pre his health issues and then Dion who has been in that fringe top 10 range as well. Overall LT hasn't been a huge problem for the Bills in my fandom - though Peters is the stand out the star, obviously - the issue they have had is putting a consistently good unit around it. The list of right tackles is rather more desperate and they have rarely seemed to have good guard play. Which is why when people say in draft discussions "don't draft a tackle we have Dion" my response is always I'd rather have too many good tackles and work out where they play later than too few. 

[Rico]

20 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

They actually had a lot of "Left Tackle Luck" in that Donahoe period too.

 

 In the last Dwight Adams draft(Donahoe's first) they drafted Jonas Jennings and he was a really talented player..........I believe his rookie season he started at RT and didn't allow a sack.    He was every bit the blocker that Dion Dawkins is today(and probably even better in pass pro) but he was constantly leaving the field injured.

 

Then they had a chance to select McKinnie.........who was considered a slam dunk pick to the Bills.......even in the fall prior to that draft.   SHOUT! magazine had an issue that fall with McKinnie on the cover LOL.   Hard to emphasize enough how OBVIOUS it was that he be the Bills first draft pick.  

 

But even after the Williams pick blunder,  Jennings moved to LT and played well.   But after they struck gold with Peters in UDFA they couldn't justify re-signing the too-oft-injured Jennings once Peters emerged.   Having 3 talented LT's like that should have been a blessing but by 2009 the Bills were LT-bankrupt and starting "Da'Mattress" Bell.    That 2009 OL might have been an all-time low point for Bills OL play.    I believe there was a stat presented during the opener that the Bills OL had the least combined starts of any opening day OL to play in the NFL since the merger.    

I looked up the 2009 OL:
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/buf/2009_roster.htm

 

Levitre and Wood were rookies, they had most starts at LG and RG. Bell was LT, then Geoff Hangartner was the C and the great Kirk Chambers was at RT.  

[BADOLBILZ]

8 minutes ago, Rico said:

I looked up the 2009 OL:
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/buf/2009_roster.htm

 

Levitre and Wood were rookies, they had most starts at LG and RG. Bell was LT, then Geoff Hangartner was the C and the great Kirk Chambers was at RT.  

 

 

After Ralph sent word down to cut Langston Walker to save some money...........as was his MO after watching preseason........in this case realizing that the Trent Edwards no-huddle offense was a complete f*cking joke.......the thought was, "well at least Brad Butler is a returning starter at tackle".    He immediately gets injured.   Enter Chambers.   What an abomination. 

 

 

Edited June 8, 2022 by BADOLBILZ

[Chicken Boo]

Pat Williams

Jason Peters 

Shady McCoy 

 

* Antoine Winfield was 1b to Shady, but prime LeSean takes this team to the stratosphere.

Edited June 8, 2022 by Chicken Boo

[Albany,n.y.]

On 6/3/2022 at 5:04 PM, John from Riverside said:

Cant believe I had to read so far down before someone said Kyle Williams

 

I can't believe how many people in this thread don't understand the definition of a playoff drought.  It means no playoffs.  Kyle Williams was on the 2017 Bills team that made the playoffs.  The drought era ended at the 2016 season.  

[Maine-iac]

18 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

fair enough.  i know he did it with the Eagles, but I can't say for sure about the Bills.  

According to PFF Dawkins has less sacks over his first 5 seasons than Peters did over his first 5 and it's not really that close.   Which is amazing when you consider Dawkins has played about 200 more snaps per season.  Peters led the league in sacks allowed in his last year with the Bills and he was an out of shape holdout.    The guy was a talented headache.  Peters was to LT's what Owens was to WR's.   Looking back after Peters career has unfolded is one thing but at the time many people thought the Bills were getting rid of a headache and would just draft a LT like Oher but we drafted Maybin instead.

 

https://walterfootball.com/jasonpeterstrade.php

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/323415-jason-peters-trade-looks-better-and-better-for-the-buffalo-bills

 

Edited June 8, 2022 by Maine-iac

[Shaw66]

2 hours ago, Maine-iac said:

According to PFF Dawkins has less sacks over his first 5 seasons than Peters did over his first 5 and it's not really that close.   Which is amazing when you consider Dawkins has played about 200 more snaps per season.  Peters led the league in sacks allowed in his last year with the Bills and he was an out of shape holdout.    The guy was a talented headache.  Peters was to LT's what Owens was to WR's.   Looking back after Peters career has unfolded is one thing but at the time many people thought the Bills were getting rid of a headache and would just draft a LT like Oher but we drafted Maybin instead.

 

https://walterfootball.com/jasonpeterstrade.php

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/323415-jason-peters-trade-looks-better-and-better-for-the-buffalo-bills

 

Well, if we're going to get into a Peters discussion, I'll start by saying that we can't compare sack stats over these periods.   The Passing game has changed so much, the sack numbers don't compare.  I mean, even if you think Peters was inconsistent, the notion that Dawkins compares in any way is pretty tough to swallow.   Dawkins is a good to very good system guy; Peters, by the time he left Buffalo, was a dominant left tackle.  

 

The Peters/Owens comparison is completely apt.  They both WERE headaches, but they both were such superior players at their positions that teams were happy to deal with the headaches, at least for a while.   

 

However, I think McD would take on the headaches under only certain circumstances, only when the guy fit just right.   Exactly how Belichick took Randy Moss.  Just the right fit for the right time, let's get him in here and use that talent.  

 

Now, the comparison breaks down, though, because Peters was less of a headache.  After his escape from Buffalo, he played his whole career for one team - Philadelphia only gave up on him because they don't think he can hold up physically, not because he was a problem.  

 

But he doesn't make my top 3.  My three were Fred Jackson, Reuben Brown, and Patrick Williams.   I think what I'm saying is I value the inspirational-warrior attitude that those guys had.   I don't think that Peters was that kind of player.   Peters was in many ways just plain physically dominant - he was bigger and quicker than almost anyone else trying to play that position, and he had the brains to execute at a really high level.  I think the three I picked all showed a different kind of heart over their careers, and I value that heart.  

[TheyCallMeAndy]

Imagine Moulds or Price with Allen?