Jim Kelly on the all time passing list

[ganesh]

13 hours ago, uticaclub said:

Look where he was when we retired, not now. When he played you could still kill QBs and take the heads of WRs. Different era

It took us 17 years and 17 different QBs and a guy wearing #17 to even have some level of playoff-level game.  That in itself should tell who Jim Kelly was.  He was a leader among men. Unfortunately his skill sets are vastly underrated. 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

23 hours ago, Rico said:

Anti-clutch in the playoffs, he folded like a cheap suit.

And Kelly didn't? He was awful in all four SB games and not much better in the playoff games. 21 TD against 28 INT. In only two seasons 88 and 89 did he have more TD than interceptions. 

 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

I'd put Kelly ahead of guys like Griese and Warner. I dont think either of those guys belong in HOF. Kelly most clearly does. He's just not in the top 10 QB list any longer. More like 15-20. I feel like Kelly was a better QB than Bradshaw but similar in many ways. More distributor than passer. Marino was a far better QB with a much worse team. Aikman is another controversial guy. He had the perfect RB, TE, OL, and WR group. All he had to do was not turn the ball over, and he didn't.  Is he a better QB than Kelly? Ugh he won more but not sure he was a better QB. I never thought Dallas won because of Aikman but I also never thought they lost because of him. 

I dont see Kelly thriving today like Brees and Brady. But I could see with the right coach and system he could have been like Favre.  Similar playing styles only Favre had the stronger arm.

Edited June 4, 2022 by Ethan in Portland

[Rico]

39 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

And Kelly didn't? He was awful in all four SB games and not much better in the playoff games. 21 TD against 28 INT. In only two seasons 88 and 89 did he have more TD than interceptions. 

 

 

[FireChans]

On 6/3/2022 at 12:15 PM, Rico said:

Anti-clutch in the playoffs, he folded like a cheap suit.

Unlike Jimbo….

[julian]

On 6/3/2022 at 6:42 AM, Neo said:

Add another 10,000 had he not played a decade with two touchdown leads and Thurman Thomas.   Kelly was a quarterback.   Marino was a passer.

Had Marino had HOFer Thurman Thomas things would have looked a lil different. I loved Kelly when he played here and is a HOFer without question.

 

Dan Marino is a top QB all time IMHO and was just on another level than Kelly who was fortunate enough to play on an all time great roster

[Apocalypse Nuts]

On 6/3/2022 at 5:59 AM, Marlton Bills said:

Jim Kelly currently sits at number 29 on the all time passing list. Had Fitzy played this year (or even most of last year) he likely would have passed him. Dalton is right behind him as well.  When I look at the list of top passers I marvel at Jim because he did it in 11 years. Has he played in 1983, 1984 and 1985, I always assume about another 10,000 yards. Do you all think that would be a reasonable amount of yards to add?  It would put him in the top 20. 

It's all a hoax.  Just because it seems like it's reality, and all normal indications available to human beings with any level of common sense in this country lead us to this same conclusion, does not mean that it's not a hoax.  It's a hoax simply because I refuse to believe it.  And I refuse to allow you to believe it.  It's just that simple.  I say it ain't true, so it ain't true.

 

Sound familiar?

 

 

JK of course

[Kirby Jackson]

20 hours ago, ganesh said:

It took us 17 years and 17 different QBs and a guy wearing #17 to even have some level of playoff-level game.  That in itself should tell who Jim Kelly was.  He was a leader among men. Unfortunately his skill sets are vastly underrated. 

The Bills inability to find competent QB play isn’t connected to Kelly. In 2004, the Bills tried DESPERATELY to trade up for a QB. They thought that they had a deal with Jacksonville but the Jags backed out. The Bills would have drafted Ben Roethlisberger. 

[Mr. WEO]

On 6/3/2022 at 8:15 AM, uticaclub said:

Look where he was when we retired, not now. When he played you could still kill QBs and take the heads of WRs. Different era

 

Where he was when he retired was stringing together 7-2, 10-5 and 8-5 starts.  Jimbo was limping to the finish line of a solid career.

 

Plus, see below..

 

On 6/3/2022 at 8:23 AM, Doc said:

 

This.  Had Kelly been protected like QBs have since the early 2000s, he'd have played another 6-7 years.  And with the more wide open offenses, he would have racked up the stats.

 

His contemporaries were Elway (16 seasons), Moon (17 seasons --in NFL), Marino (16 seasons), Young (15 seasons), Esiason (14 seasons), etc.

 

in 1994, Marino was still putting up almost 4500 yards. Moon at 4300 and Young about 4000. Same for Elway. 

 

All took the same beatings. 

 

 

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

On 6/3/2022 at 3:52 PM, babulator said:

I just don't think you can compare any of these stats to the modern day NFL.

 

I think Brady and Manning were the beginning of this new pass happy NFL, where throwing is the norm and DB's aren't really allowed to get physical anymore. It's turning into a game of highlight reels.  I prefer the old gridiron tbh, where making a big catch or significant play meant something. For elite teams the NFL has become increasingly more and more like basketball, where it's a game of possessions, end of half, end of game. 

 

/rant off.

 

It still is. Didn't we beat Baltimore 17-3 in the playoffs? The game is still very much defensive especially in the playoffs. Not so much last year, but it hasn't completely disappeared.

[T master]

On 6/3/2022 at 4:59 AM, Marlton Bills said:

Jim Kelly currently sits at number 29 on the all time passing list. Had Fitzy played this year (or even most of last year) he likely would have passed him. Dalton is right behind him as well.  When I look at the list of top passers I marvel at Jim because he did it in 11 years. Has he played in 1983, 1984 and 1985, I always assume about another 10,000 yards. Do you all think that would be a reasonable amount of yards to add?  It would put him in the top 20. 

 

Just look at his completions while he was in the USFL and add those to his NFL completions that should give you a pretty good idea where he would be on that list he did a lot of good things while there i couldn't stand that he chose them over the Bills ...

 

But he made up for it i guess . I would have loved to see what if anything extra he could have done from the get go here in B/lo !! 

[Doc]

14 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

His contemporaries were Elway (16 seasons), Moon (17 seasons --in NFL), Marino (16 seasons), Young (15 seasons), Esiason (14 seasons), etc.

 

in 1994, Marino was still putting up almost 4500 yards. Moon at 4300 and Young about 4000. Same for Elway. 

 

All took the same beatings.

 

I know.  That's why I'm saying if QBs then had been protected like ones now.

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, Doc said:

 

I know.  That's why I'm saying if QBs then had been protected like ones now.

 

 

Well all of those guys lasted a lot longer than Jimbo in the same era/rules.  

 

It wasn't the old rules that did him in..

[RocCityRoller]

On 6/3/2022 at 8:54 AM, Albany,n.y. said:

Kelly was 37 when he retired.  No way he'd be playing at 43 or 44.  

 

 

On 6/3/2022 at 9:36 AM, 13 Second Prevent Defense said:

He had a short NFL career due to the USFL start and probably a little too much partying/not enough attention to nutrition.  Comparing stats from a  a guy today like Fitz to guys from a previous era should not be done straight up.  Guys from the 70s and 80s would be terrible if they had the stats today they did then.  It has been 39 years since Kelly was drafted.

 

Warren Moon has entered the chat. He played in the same era, and played until 44. (1978-1983 CFL, 1984-2000 NFL)

 

Moon was a freak though. Most of the pre 2000 guys played up to 40 max. Stabler and Plunkett made it to 39, which was a feat in their era. Elway and Marino only made it to 38.

 

I do think guys take being a pro more seriously, well those with very long careers. Anyone can Karlos Williams/ Kelvin Benjamin their way out of the league.

[Doc]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

Well all of those guys lasted a lot longer than Jimbo in the same era/rules.  

 

It wasn't the old rules that did him in..

 

Again I'm talking different eras.  Jim's contemporaries could have also played longer.

 

And Jim lost 3 NFL seasons playing in the USFL.

[BillsPride12]

5 hours ago, Doc said:

 

Again I'm talking different eras.  Jim's contemporaries could have also played longer.

 

And Jim lost 3 NFL seasons playing in the USFL.

I think a lot of people miss that point.  His all-time stats would have certainly been padded if he came into the league right away when he was in the physical prime of his life.  I think it all worked out though as far as the team coming together at the right time with the right pieces to form the Super Bowl teams so from that standpoint it's hard to look back and have any regrets as a Bills fan on Kelly missing those early years with the USFL.  The other problem with the lack of longevity of Jim's career was on him in my opinion, Jimbo lived a very hard lifestyle off the field back then.  He was the last of the true throwbacks that really played as hard off the field as they did on the field.  I think it was pretty common from the 70s through the 90s but guys just couldn't keep up nowadays if they took care of themselves like that now.  I agree injuries played a role in it too but I think it was the combination of poor health and nutritional habits combined with the beating he took.  There's no way anybody who is being honest could say he retired too early, he just wasn't the same guy by the time he hung up the cleats.  

[In Summary]

Kelly had great accuracy on the deep arcing passes, slants, and short-area dumps to RBs.  These resulted in Lofton/Beebe bombs, Reed RAC yards from being hit in stride, and smooth execution of screens to Thurman.   I mention these as they have not been Allen's early career strong points.  Kelly also very accurate threading the ball between defenders - more so anyway in his earlier years.  Sometimes prone to missing the underneath coverage.  Kelly a great "touch" passer IMO.  

[NoHuddleKelly12]

On 6/5/2022 at 11:34 AM, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Well all of those guys lasted a lot longer than Jimbo in the same era/rules.  

 

It wasn't the old rules that did him in..

Not for nothing but during the years they were all going head to head, Kelly routinely played more playoff games by default as the Bills were going deeper, so per year his average games played would be highest…for sure vs Marino/Moon, with more commensurate hits/wear/tear…the beatings he took in the SB’s alone were something to behold. Will never forget el cheap shotto Ken Norton Jr launching at Jim’s knees to take him out early in SB XXVII, and the concussions from SB XXVI, etc. 

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

Not for nothing but during the years they were all going head to head, Kelly routinely played more playoff games by default as the Bills were going deeper, so per year his average games played would be highest…for sure vs Marino/Moon, with more commensurate hits/wear/tear…the beatings he took in the SB’s alone were something to behold. Will never forget el cheap shotto Ken Norton Jr launching at Jim’s knees to take him out early in SB XXVII, and the concussions from SB XXVI, etc. 

 

 

Kelly played in 17 playoff games--11 of those were during the 4 SB seasons.  In those 17 games, he was sacked a total of 25 times.  He only played all 16 regular season games 4 times in his career.  He never took at least 500 drop backs and only 6 times had over 450 attempts.

 

Marino had 11 16 game regular seasons and played in 18 playoff games.  He had 11 seasons with over 500 attempts, 3 over 600.

 

Playing the same game, they all took beatings.  Jim didn't hold up as well.

Edited June 11, 2022 by Mr. WEO

[Mr. WEO]

On 6/5/2022 at 1:27 PM, Doc said:

 

Again I'm talking different eras.  Jim's contemporaries could have also played longer.

 

And Jim lost 3 NFL seasons playing in the USFL.

 

He played 2 seasons in the NFL. Sandlot football.  The NFL, he would see, was a little different...