Jim Kelly on the all time passing list

[thenorthremembers]

5 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Hot take: Kelly was a very good QB, not an elite QB. He belongs in the HOF because of his winning. He is in the Fouts/Moon/Aikman/Griese/Warner tier of HOF QBs not the Brady/Montana/Peyton/Elway/Marino tier.

 

 

Agree for the most part but Marino also doesn't belong in the Montana/Peyton/Elway tier.   Brady belongs in his own tier.

 

Marino was 8-10 in the playoffs over 17 seasons.    Great regular season QB, but he doesn't belong in a tier with multiple super bowl winners.

[Neo]

3 hours ago, Gugny said:

 

Marino was leaps and bounds better than Kelly as a passer and a QB.

Half correct.

37 minutes ago, LeviF said:

 

Marino might be the best passer to ever play the game. At this point it's between him and Rodgers. Josh Allen could blow them both away at his current trajectory.

Marino threw beautifully, no doubt.  

[Neo]

56 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

 

Not sure what that means exactly, but it sounds clever.  Marino was the more highly ranked of the 2 by anyone who is not a Bills fan.

 

No, he's a lot better in some aspects.

He's the best pure passer I've ever seen and no one has ever replicated his ridiculously fast release.

 

 

I’ll agree with pure passer.  The other aspects are my arguments.

[machine gun kelly]

6 hours ago, eball said:

 

I think it’s splitting hairs to a degree.  I do believe having Thurman for most of his career was a limiting factor on Kelly’s stats.  He was an elite thrower of the football and there was no QB tougher.  Great leader as well (at least on the field).

 

Well, Eman it’s not just that, but Kelly did play in a different era than the later guys mentioned by KJ.  Montana, and Elway yes.  The later guys had different rules that if a QB gets a hangnail the defender gets a penalty.  No wonder the QB’s are

Playing  much later into their careers.  It’s like the AB’s in the 60’s and early 70’s with only 14 games, and defenders could practically decapitate a QB.  Forget the Deacon Jones ear slaps and WR’s practically getting sucker punched in the 70’s.

 

It reminds me of a family dinner scene in Blue Bloods where Frank Reagan ?Selleck) and his dad, and he raised his voice to Henry saying “that’s like saying Mike Tyson can beat Ali in his prime, it’s a non starter”.  It really is the same.

 

Yes, if Kelly would’ve not gone to the Gamblers and went to the Bills in 83, he would’ve passed his stats, but remember the coach was Kay Stephenson, probably the worst HC in Bills history.

 

I’m proud of Jimbo and respect him for what he brought to this city for all of these years when he played and how he has been a role model to our youth forever.  Hence my avatar.  Someday Josh will get there as he’s on his way.  In 10 years with these rules and a little luck  with no serious injuries, we

will be talking us old guys as I’m only middle aged now, of getting to watch live the two greatest QB’s in Bills history.

 

I can’t wait as I love Josh as our QB.

[RevWarRifleman]

Marlton, I'm not so sure. The lack of talent as well as coaching the Bills had while Jim was in the USFL doesn't strike me that Jim would have 

tore up the league with lots of yards & TD's as a Bill. For us old guys that remember those years (back to back 2-14 seasons) our offense

lacked pretty much everything.

 

That's just my 2 cents.

[BillsBlue]

I think many of you are forgetting that this team led by Kelly whent to 4 SUPER BOWLS IN A ROW!!!!!! 

Never happened again never will happen again for ANY QB!!!!! Chew on that, put that in yer pipe and smoke it 😃

[JerseyBills]

8 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Hot take: Kelly was a very good QB, not an elite QB. He belongs in the HOF because of his winning. He is in the Fouts/Moon/Aikman/Griese/Warner tier of HOF QBs not the Brady/Montana/Peyton/Elway/Marino tier.

 

 

That's a very debatable discussion 

[BillsFanSD]

7 hours ago, Greg S said:

It will knock Kelly from #1 to #2 as the greatest Bills QB 

I honestly think Allen is already a better QB than Kelly ever was.  And I loved Kelly and still do.  

 

And paradoxically, I don't even think it matters whether we're talking about 1990s era football or today's game.  Allen is a better QB in the 2020s NFL than Kelly would have been for sure.  But I also think Allen would have been better than Kelly in 1990s too.  It's not as if Allen isn't a big guy who can take a hit or two. 

Edited June 3, 2022 by BillsFanSD

[TN Bills Fan]

Some of Kelly's best years were spent in the WFL.  He would have a bunch more if not...

[babulator]

I just don't think you can compare any of these stats to the modern day NFL.

 

I think Brady and Manning were the beginning of this new pass happy NFL, where throwing is the norm and DB's aren't really allowed to get physical anymore. It's turning into a game of highlight reels.  I prefer the old gridiron tbh, where making a big catch or significant play meant something. For elite teams the NFL has become increasingly more and more like basketball, where it's a game of possessions, end of half, end of game. 

 

/rant off.

[Greg S]

7 minutes ago, BillsFanSD said:

I honestly think Allen is already a better QB than Kelly ever was.  And I loved Kelly and still do.  

 

And paradoxically, I don't even think it matters whether we're talking about 1990s era football or today's game.  Allen is a better QB in the 2020s NFL than Kelly would have been for sure.  But I also think Allen would have been better than Kelly in 1990s too.  It's not as if Allen isn't a big guy who can take a hit or two. 

 

I would still have Kelly #1 and Kemp #2. Both of them already played a full career. Kelly led the team to 4 Super Bowls plus all the playoff wins, regular season wins, AFCE titles. Allen is starting to do that as well but he is just getting started. I would still rank Kemp over Allen because of the back to back AFL championships. At this point Allen has passed Ferguson to move into #3 on the Bills QB list. I agree with you that Allen will be #1 when its all said and done. He still has a lot to accomplish before he becomes the greatest Bills QB. 

 

Right now 

1. Kelly 

2. Kemp

3. Allen

4. Ferguson

 

When Josh is done playing

1. Allen

2. Kelly

3. Kemp

4. Ferguson

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

9 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Hot take: Kelly was a very good QB, not an elite QB. He belongs in the HOF because of his winning. He is in the Fouts/Moon/Aikman/Griese/Warner tier of HOF QBs not the Brady/Montana/Peyton/Elway/Marino tier.

Marino’s best weapon was a fast release time. 

His proficiency passing and no run game doomed him from repeated SB’s and getting past Kelly. 

Elway was a JAG until Terrell Davis got there that they won it or was it Shannon Sharpe? 

 

 

Brady cheated. 
 

[ColoradoBills]

5 hours ago, Greg S said:

 

Coming off back to back 2-14 seasons Kelly was viewed as a savior for the franchise during those horrible times. Just look at the reaction of the fans during Kelly's first game.

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks Greg!

I had moved to Colorado a couple of years earlier and never seen Jimbo's first game with the Bills.

Heard from friends who were at the game as to how electrified they were seeing Kelly play.  I now see why.

 

You get the feeling if the Bills D would of stopped the Jets on that 3rd down with about 1:50 left in the game Kelly would of had

a great chance to win the game.

 

I might have to check out some other early Kelly games on YouTube.

 

[machine gun kelly]

1 hour ago, TN Bills Fan said:

Some of Kelly's best years were spent in the WFL.  He would have a bunch more if not...

I think you mean the USFL.  Trump owned a team in that league.

 

As far as Kelly vs. Allen well let’s wait til Allen gets to year 11 and then an easy comparison, and you’ll probably be right.  As Parcels used to say, let’s not crown him yet or get the bust out.  It’s a good metaphor to take the time as I’m sure Allen will probably go down at some point as the greatest Bills QB ever, but not yet.

[billybrew1]

11 hours ago, Marlton Bills said:

Jim Kelly currently sits at number 29 on the all time passing list. Had Fitzy played this year (or even most of last year) he likely would have passed him. Dalton is right behind him as well.  When I look at the list of top passers I marvel at Jim because he did it in 11 years. Has he played in 1983, 1984 and 1985, I always assume about another 10,000 yards. Do you all think that would be a reasonable amount of yards to add?  It would put him in the top 20. 

Oh, absolutely. I used to watch Kelly in the USFL and was similar to how Allen looks now. Just total domination by a bigger, stronger, better player than anyone he played against. He was super-human back then. He could run, etc….

LOL, it is a bit depressing thinking how Kelly lost his knees so young and that happening to Josh too….

But Jim Kelly was mobile in usfl. He wasn’t a runner, but he wasn’t the statue we all know and love from his Buffalo days either….

He was very dominant, like Allen is now. Just super human. (Knock on wood. No jinxes!)

[RocCityRoller]

3 hours ago, BillsBlue said:

I think many of you are forgetting that this team led by Kelly whent to 4 SUPER BOWLS IN A ROW!!!!!! 

Never happened again never will happen again for ANY QB!!!!! Chew on that, put that in yer pipe and smoke it 😃

 

It was Kelly and Thomas.

The Bills were top 10, if not 5 in rushing all of those years, and Kelly could barely run. The passing stats were top 15 to top 10.

 

To me Kelly was very good, not great.

 

As Bills fans Kelly was great because he did things no QB did for the Bills before him, and honestly still hasn't done.

 

Some may argue Kemp in another era. And true he won two AFL championships and went to 3 or 4 AFL Championship games in a row. But those Bills teams played great defense and also had a 1k back in Cookie Gilchrist. Defense and RB were not strong suites of the AFL.

 

Right now for overall accomplishment, taking era into account:

Jim Kelly

Jack Kemp

Josh Allen

 

JA needs a few SB appearances to equal that out.

[Kirby Jackson]

3 hours ago, JerseyBills said:

That's a very debatable discussion 

It’s June on TBD. That’s why it’s out there. 

[Chandler#81]

12 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I’m not so much worried about the passing yards (although that’s a fair point). At the same time, a lot of the yards that he got were after the catch. Andre Reed is one of the best after the catch that I’ve ever seen. He wouldn’t have had that in SD or Miami. 
 

I’m not trashing him in any sense. I just think that we look at him, and history looks at him, as a more dominant player than he was. He was excellent. He belongs in the HOF. Kelly just isn’t in that special room in the HOF. FWIW, I think Allen has a chance to be in that room.

Jesus Christ, Kirby! You’re making up your own HOF rooms? WTF???😳🤣😒

[pennstate10]

14 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Hot take: Kelly was a very good QB, not an elite QB. He belongs in the HOF because of his winning. He is in the Fouts/Moon/Aikman/Griese/Warner tier of HOF QBs not the Brady/Montana/Peyton/Elway/Marino tier.

 

 

Agree mostly.

But not with Marino.  There is no way Marino is in the same tier as Brady/Montana/Peyton/Elway/Brees.  All those guys were winners. They all had numerous conference championships and at least one superbowl. Marino, not so much.  Marino was a bit like James Lauranitis, the LB commonly known as "pile jumper".  Great stats, but in the end, not a true difference maker.

[Sierra Foothills]

13 hours ago, Greg S said:

Assuming he stays healthy Allen will have every single Bills passing record and it won't be close. It will knock Kelly from #1 to #2 as the greatest Bills QB with Kemp and Ferguson dropping to #3 and #4 respectively on the Bills QB list.

 

Allen will knock Kelly to #2 statistically. I think people need to tap the brakes a bit until Allen can deliver at least one Super Bowl appearance.

 

12 hours ago, Albany,n.y. said:

Kelly was 37 when he retired.  No way he'd be playing at 43 or 44.  

 

It was posited that Kelly took a lot more punishment than QBs of today.

 

I think it's reasonable to say that if Kelly had the same protections as today's QBs he almost certainly would have added a couple seasons on the back end of his career.

 

11 hours ago, Awwufelloff said:

Allens career will blow past Kellys in every category. 

 

Again statistically that is more than likely. As far as greatness, let's see if Allen gets us to ONE Super Bowl. Then we can talk about it.

 

9 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

 

Not sure what that means exactly, but it sounds clever.  Marino was the more highly ranked of the 2 by anyone who is not a Bills fan.

 

No, he's a lot better in some aspects.

He's the best pure passer I've ever seen and no one has ever replicated his ridiculously fast release.

 

Kelly was 16-8 heads up against Marino, 3-0 in the playoffs. BTW Kelly was 4-2 against Elway.

 

No one would argue which player was more talented but those who put Marino ahead of Kelly as a QB have very little basis for that position IMO.

 

Probably I'm being harsh but I feel like half the people posting in this topic are too young to have watched Kelly play and the other half are too old to have a clear memory of his career. I love Josh Allen as much as anyone but the short memory and lack of respect for Jim Kelly's career makes me a bit sad. There's a ton of recency bias at work here.