NFL/NFLPA agree to expand Practice Squads to 16(from 12) and max elevations per player now 3 instead of 2

[Big Turk]

Looks like they also greatly eased the rules so that up to 6 players can be made up of any type of players without any restrictions (see vested vets stashed cheaply on the PS).

 

Agreement between NFL and NFLPA for remainder of the CBA.

 

https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/1529602332295671813

Edited May 26, 2022 by Big Turk

[First Round Bust]

wonder if they would consider an exclusion for rookies (first year) after the initial cuts in Aug and the big one now in early Sept where IF you reclaim your recent draft picks, they would be protected/exempt for the first season, protects the draft investment made in them...i

[NewEra]

Awesome.  Now increase the active game day roster size to 53

[boyst]

6 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Awesome.  Now increase the active game day roster size to 53

If the NFL is about safety, this is one of the next logical steps and long overdue.

 

The NFLPA, for a long time, was against expanded rosters for fear of it reducing the pot.

[hjnick]

IMO, This is all in response to the USFL and XFL. Weakening their products even more by stashing more able bodies away from them.

 

[aceman_16]

1 hour ago, hjnick said:

IMO, This is all in response to the USFL and XFL. Weakening their products even more by stashing more able bodies away from them.

 

How does this accomplish that? The USFL/XFL could care less about NFL rules. Both leagues offer more for their starters than a PS "salary."

[Rochesterfan]

4 hours ago, aceman_16 said:

How does this accomplish that? The USFL/XFL could care less about NFL rules. Both leagues offer more for their starters than a PS "salary."

 

Not sure that is correct.

USFL salary:

 

Each player makes $600 per week for training camp and $4,500 for being on the active roster during each game, according to USFL News. Practice squad players make $1,500 per game. While the regular-season “salary” for a player is less than $50,000, there are a few opportunities for bonuses.Apr 22, 2022

 

Plus the players have to pay for housing - including an option to share a hotel room.

 

XFL Salary:

 

It was about 1/2 the USFL salary standard, but with bonuses - we will see the final numbers needed to attract players in 2023.

 

The XFL covered hotel rooms for the players - therefore the overall take home was about the same as the USFL.
 

 

Practice Squad:

 

How much does the average practice squad player make? Players with tenure earn $14,000 per week, or $252,000 per season, a nice spike from the $8,400 practice squad players used to make. And players with two or fewer accrued NFL seasons make $9,200.Sep 23, 2021
 

 

The standard player with no experience will make nearly 2x the money per week on the NFL practice squad - plus with the longer season  you get that weekly salary over 17 games - nearly double the number of games that either other league has - so nearly 4x the overall salary on the PS.  The NFL also has built in contract escalators year over year to increase the salary and the ability to get a full NFL game check if called up that would be more than the entire yearly salary in the USFL or XFL.

 

 

In addition the viewership of the USFL has been terrible - with 4 games including prime football times Sat and Sun on NBC and Fox - major over the air networks - the average viewers was under 800,000.  Unless that trend changes - it is going to be hard to envision how both the USFL and the XFL can play at the same time and survive.

 

 

Edited May 26, 2022 by Rochesterfan

[JGMcD2]

9 hours ago, First Round Bust said:

wonder if they would consider an exclusion for rookies (first year) after the initial cuts in Aug and the big one now in early Sept where IF you reclaim your recent draft picks, they would be protected/exempt for the first season, protects the draft investment made in them...i

This is a pretty interesting idea...

Continue to expose them to waivers when they come off the 90-man roster, but if they clear waivers and are sent to the practice squad, you retain their rights on your practice squad (or you can decide to outright release). Similar to MLB rules with taking a guy off the 40-man roster. 

[mushypeaches]

I'm a big fan of this in terms of being able to retain and develop players who need more time in your system or just reps with the coaching staff in order to be "game ready".   This especially helps teams like the Bills who have much more of an established 53-man roster and risk losing talent to other teams without having a viable alternative in the Practice Squad

[Simon Says]

11 hours ago, First Round Bust said:

wonder if they would consider an exclusion for rookies (first year) after the initial cuts in Aug and the big one now in early Sept where IF you reclaim your recent draft picks, they would be protected/exempt for the first season, protects the draft investment made in them...i

I think thats an interesting idea...I assume it would have to guarantee them rookie minimum, more than the usual PS $$$

[PromoTheRobot]

7 hours ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

In addition the viewership of the USFL has been terrible - with 4 games including prime football times Sat and Sun on NBC and Fox - major over the air networks - the average viewers was under 800,000.  Unless that trend changes - it is going to be hard to envision how both the USFL and the XFL can play at the same time and survive.

 

 

 

You fail to compare how the USFL does in its time slot against the competition. This past Saturday night Michigan-Birmingham game did 1.2M viewers, 300K fewer than NHL hockey but way more than NASCAR and Boxing. The evening was led by NBA playoffs and the Preakness. Look for yourself:

 

https://showbuzzdaily.com/articles/skedball-weekly-sports-tv-ratings-5-16-5-22-2022.html

 

The USFL is doing just fine. Right about where Fox and NBC expected.

[RyanC883]

I'd like more gameday callups also.  Not sure why either the NFL or NFLPA would oppose this?  

[Warcodered]

14 hours ago, hjnick said:

IMO, This is all in response to the USFL and XFL. Weakening their products even more by stashing more able bodies away from them.

 

Doesn't the practice squad only exist during the season when those leagues don't play?

[Big Turk]

54 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

Doesn't the practice squad only exist during the season when those leagues don't play?

 

Yes

[Rochesterfan]

1 hour ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

You fail to compare how the USFL does in its time slot against the competition. This past Saturday night Michigan-Birmingham game did 1.2M viewers, 300K fewer than NHL hockey but way more than NASCAR and Boxing. The evening was led by NBA playoffs and the Preakness. Look for yourself:

 

https://showbuzzdaily.com/articles/skedball-weekly-sports-tv-ratings-5-16-5-22-2022.html

 

The USFL is doing just fine. Right about where Fox and NBC expected.

 

 

I did not fail anything - the viewership has dropped off to below the levels that caused other leagues to fold.  I think they are running about 1/2 of what they expected and they have been dropping.  Yes football still outdraws most other sports, but the costs associated with football are astronomical compared to the other sports.  

 

Even in stadium in Alabama has decreased for the home team.  They are not on a sustainable path right now because the hope was that the viewership would allow them to move to home stadiums next year, but they are already struggling and added travel and home costs would put them out of business.

 

We will see, but once again unless they get some star power - they are going to struggle and this is a failing business.

 

Fox EVP for USFL set the success at needing about 1.5 million viewers weekly - about 500,000 less than the XFL was seeing before Covid shut them down.  They are currently topping out at 1.2 million and the 2 main games on broadcast TV - Sat at 1pm and Sunday at 4 pm both were under 800,000.  The FS1 broadcast at 12 on Sunday - prime football time - was under 300,000.

 

They are pushing below acceptable and are well below what the XFL was doing before Covid.  The idea of a hub model was to build viewership, but as viewership has fallen off below expectations- it sounds like moving out of the hub model may not be an option next year.

 

 

57 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

Doesn't the practice squad only exist during the season when those leagues don't play?

 

2 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

Yes

 

Yes, but many get a futures contract after the season and that futures contract blocks them from going to the alternate leagues.  
 

Having a larger PS means more players will get these future contracts and be locked into the NFL.

 

 

[Warcodered]

7 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

Yes, but many get a futures contract after the season and that futures contract blocks them from going to the alternate leagues.  
 

Having a larger PS means more players will get these future contracts and be locked into the NFL.

But the overall roster size at that point hasn't been made bigger, those same players could be brought in any way to the offseason roster.

[PromoTheRobot]

13 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

 

I did not fail anything - the viewership has dropped off to below the levels that caused other leagues to fold.  I think they are running about 1/2 of what they expected and they have been dropping.  Yes football still outdraws most other sports, but the costs associated with football are astronomical compared to the other sports.  

 

Even in stadium in Alabama has decreased for the home team.  They are not on a sustainable path right now because the hope was that the viewership would allow them to move to home stadiums next year, but they are already struggling and added travel and home costs would put them out of business.

 

We will see, but once again unless they get some star power - they are going to struggle and this is a failing business.

 

Fox EVP for USFL set the success at needing about 1.5 million viewers weekly - about 500,000 less than the XFL was seeing before Covid shut them down.  They are currently topping out at 1.2 million and the 2 main games on broadcast TV - Sat at 1pm and Sunday at 4 pm both were under 800,000.  The FS1 broadcast at 12 on Sunday - prime football time - was under 300,000.

 

They are pushing below acceptable and are well below what the XFL was doing before Covid.  The idea of a hub model was to build viewership, but as viewership has fallen off below expectations- it sounds like moving out of the hub model may not be an option next year.

 

 

 

 

Yes, but many get a futures contract after the season and that futures contract blocks them from going to the alternate leagues.  
 

Having a larger PS means more players will get these future contracts and be locked into the NFL.

 

 

 

The purpose of the USFL is to provide Fox and NBC programming during the spring/summer lull. You cite that other leagues were doing better than the USFL. That is not true. After the initial curiosity viewing both the XFL and USFL settled in around the 1 million viewers per game mark. You also forgot, or do not know, that the USFL is owned by Fox and NBC. So I seriously doubt these networks went into this venture unaware of the viewership potential.

 

You are correct that it's entirely likely that Phase 2 of the USFL, moving the teams to their home cities, may not happen. I don't think it would be worth the added expense. The single hub city concept works fine, other than the lack of fans when the home Stallions aren't playing.  

 

None of this has stopped ESPN/ABC from signing on to the XFL's return next spring. The XFL plans to begin play earlier, with teams in home cities, right after the Super Bowl. So there will be two spring leagues in 2023, though not playing head to head, as the USFL doesn't begin until April.

Edited May 26, 2022 by PromoTheRobot

[Rochesterfan]

3 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

But the overall roster size at that point hasn't been made bigger, those same players could be brought in any way to the offseason roster.

 

The players are under contract (even PS players ) until the new league starts and that is also the point the futures contract start and the rosters expand.

 

The team and player could agree to separate and these guys could play in the USFL or XFL, but not if they are under contract and they do not get released.  They are still property of the NFL team until mid-March.

 

Most of these players will also sign the futures contract that guarantees them a shot at TC next year and off season work.

 

 

[Rochesterfan]

28 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

The purpose of the USFL is to provide Fox and NBC programming during the spring/summer lull. You cite that other leagues were doing better than the USFL. That is not true. After the initial curiosity viewing both the XFL and USFL settled in around the 1 million viewers per game mark. You also forgot, or do not know, that the USFL is owned by Fox and NBC. So I seriously doubt these networks went into this venture unaware of the viewership potential.

 

You are correct that it's entirely likely that Phase 2 of the USFL, moving the teams to their home cities, may not happen. I don't think it would be worth the added expense. The single hub city concept works fine, other than the lack of fans when the home Stallions aren't playing.  

 

None of this has stopped ESPN/ABC from signing on to the XFL's return next spring. The XFL plans to begin play earlier, with teams in home cities, right after the Super Bowl. So there will be two spring leagues in 2023, though not playing head to head, as the USFL doesn't begin until April.

 

Yes Fox went into with an understanding of what they were getting into and they may become the first spring league in a while to complete a season, but in terms of production cost and team cost - they set certain goals and their EVP said for a successful season they needed to maintain around 1.5 million.  
 

They might break even with viewership between 800,000 and 1.5 million, but much below that they were most like losing money.  
 

They were also ecstatic with the home crowd to start the season, but admit the crowd is less than expected and way below expectations for the rest of the teams at this point.

 

Yes Fox can and will absorb some loss for this league, but how much is the question.  They tried to capitalize on a nostalgic league and team names, and a hub city approach and are right now below break even in the mid point of year 1.  They did everything to make it a success and it is sinking right now.
 

With 2 leagues going on essentially simultaneously with little to no break from the Super Bowl - it seems like a good chance the numbers drop even more next year.  At some point - even the deep pockets of Fox will step away - especially if the NFL decides to put added pressure on their partners.

The big thing will be which league gets a psuedo-star first and can market that player into a league name.  It might be a college kid - kicked out, but not eligible for the NFL yet or a vet trying to make a comeback, but they need something to make the league interesting.

 

We are talking about trying to fix the Pro-Bowl with over 8.5 million viewers and calling the USFL with a Sunday at 4 pm game with 680,000 a success.  It barely outdrew college Softball 560,000 viewers on ESPN in the same time slot.  It was beaten out by many things like Indy car racing, NHL playoffs, and NASCAR open race - in the same time slot.

 

 

 

Edited May 26, 2022 by Rochesterfan

[PromoTheRobot]

3 hours ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

Yes Fox went into with an understanding of what they were getting into and they may become the first spring league in a while to complete a season, but in terms of production cost and team cost - they set certain goals and their EVP said for a successful season they needed to maintain around 1.5 million.  
 

They might break even with viewership between 800,000 and 1.5 million, but much below that they were most like losing money.  
 

They were also ecstatic with the home crowd to start the season, but admit the crowd is less than expected and way below expectations for the rest of the teams at this point.

 

Yes Fox can and will absorb some loss for this league, but how much is the question.  They tried to capitalize on a nostalgic league and team names, and a hub city approach and are right now below break even in the mid point of year 1.  They did everything to make it a success and it is sinking right now.
 

With 2 leagues going on essentially simultaneously with little to no break from the Super Bowl - it seems like a good chance the numbers drop even more next year.  At some point - even the deep pockets of Fox will step away - especially if the NFL decides to put added pressure on their partners.

The big thing will be which league gets a psuedo-star first and can market that player into a league name.  It might be a college kid - kicked out, but not eligible for the NFL yet or a vet trying to make a comeback, but they need something to make the league interesting.

 

We are talking about trying to fix the Pro-Bowl with over 8.5 million viewers and calling the USFL with a Sunday at 4 pm game with 680,000 a success.  It barely outdrew college Softball 560,000 viewers on ESPN in the same time slot.  It was beaten out by many things like Indy car racing, NHL playoffs, and NASCAR open race - in the same time slot.

 

 

 

 

We'll just have to disagree. I think the USFL will endure. Will the XFL? We'll see.