Tua impressing in Miami

[SoTier]

12 hours ago, BillsFan130 said:

They had a massive comeback win against a super bowl contender on the road.

 

I know we all hate Miami and Tua including myself, but let's call a spade a spade here...

 

It was an extremely impressive victory for them.

 

Actually, the only thing that was impressive about Miami's victory was that they outscored Baltimore 28-3 in the fourth quarter.   Scoring 28 points in a quarter is impressive for any team, and even more so for a team that played as poorly as the Fins did for the first three quarters of the game.     

 

10 hours ago, Bronxbomber21 said:

The Baltimore Defense looked like they went home at halftime. If you watch the highlights you can see the Ravens secondary give up on under thrown passes. Those would be ints with Buffalos secondary.  

 

Exactly.   After they got up 2 TDs in the second half, the Ravens obviously dismissed the Fins.   The defense in the second half sucked but the offense sucked, too.  In the first half, the Fins couldn't stop the Ravens, especially on the ground.   In the second half, even Lamar got into the spirit of the collapse and threw an errant pass that was almost intercepted for a pick six.   If the Ravens had been able to make even a modest sustained drive in the fourth quarter, Miami wouldn't have time to score 21 points much less 28.   They couldn't do it.

 

I cannot see a McDermott coached team collapsing the way the Ravens did.

 

 

Edited September 19, 2022 by SoTier

[colin]

51 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Interesting take. Pass rush doesn't do much if they are three step drops and throws. 

The critical issues will be staying relatively tight to these guys in the short zones, tackle after the catch, and don't get stupid by letting these corners be on an island without safety help over top.  They should be in a 2 deep shell all night and make them dunk and dunk all night. 

Then play keep away with the football.  Run the ball and put some nice sustained drives together to keep the d fresh

 

that's true, but that's where disguising coverage comes in.  if you make the qb throw quick but have that covered, you can get a sneaky pic (von miller had one vs brady in the afc chip game prior to denver beating carolina for the chip).  also, if the coverage isn't what the qb thought it was pre snap, then when he goes to his first/best read and doesn't see what he wants, he is likely to hesitate and hold the ball a little longer, which gives the pass rush a chance.

 

 

[DCOrange]

I think Buffalo still wins next week (assuming we get through tonight relatively unscathed), but I think we can all agree it would be nice if we didn't have to deal with Hill/Waddle before White comes back.

 

On paper, Baltimore's defense might be better than ours; they obviously fell apart in the 2nd half with some strategic mistakes as well as just some blown coverages, but people are acting like their secondary is a joke. They have one of the best corner duos in the NFL and a good group of safeties (not Hyde/Poyer level, but still very good). There's a reason people believed Baltimore would be a top 5 defense this year and possibly #1. They have a lot of talent on that side of the ball even with the injuries they've had.

 

Having said that, I'd be very surprised if Buffalo makes the same mistakes Baltimore made yesterday and I don't think it's a hot take to say Tua probably won't throw for 400+ and 6 TDs again next week. I think our defense will make things much harder for Tua than Baltimore did. Hill, Waddle, and to an extent, Gesicki, are good enough that they might still be successful against us but obviously we're rightfully confident our offense will put up points too.

 

Long story short: Buffalo remains the better team, but Miami should have a good chance at making the playoffs IMO and I think both Tua and their defense are better than a lot of Bills fans give them credit for. I'd be disappointed and a little surprised if we lose next week, but Miami is a good team; they're probably going to beat some good teams like they did yesterday.

[FilthyBeast]

1 hour ago, BUFFALOTONE said:

Kid had a great day,  he got it done. Give him credit. This was the best thing our Defense could have seen, he's capable. However, a MNF game we are banged up, to a 2-0 Miami team where it will be hot as hell at 1PM. Regardless of past history this game has had me worried for a while. This will not be a walk through.   

 

I've said for months this is probably a game we lose. The dominance over Miami in recent years has been great but it isn't going to last forever and eventually they'll find a way to win against the Bills again.

 

It doesn't mean the season is over and/or the Bills still aren't one of the best teams in the league, can't win division, etc but it might actually be a good thing for the Bills to get humbled and have a bad loss against another contender this early in the season so they clean everything up and don't go through a similar funk like last year's woefully inconsistent team.

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

Must have been a good batch of coffee this morning...I read the thread title, and immediately tinkered it for Travis Henry: 'Henry impregnating in ___________________'. (Fill in city of your choice.)

[PrimeTime101]

3 hours ago, billsfan1959 said:

 

Right. Tua's strength is a 3 step drop, 7-10 yd throw. He has a quick release and is accurate on the short throws. They rely on speed  and quickness for separation and YAC. Apply constant pressure with four and keep the YAC to a minimum.

 

Yesterday, 28 of his 50 throws (58%) were within 5 yards of the LOS and he completed 23 of 28 (82%). Those 23 completions netted a grand total of 25 air yards and 129 YAC, for 154 total yards and 2 TDS. 13 more attempts were between 5 and 12 yds and he completed 7 of 13 (54%) with 1 INT and 1 TD. He threw 4 passes between 15-17 yards and completed 2 of 4 (50%). He threw 5 passes over 20 yds. On four of the passes there wasn't a defender within 5-10 yards of the receiver and resulted in 3 TDs. On the only throw over 20 in which a wide receiver was actually defended, Tua threw an interception.

 

Tua had a good game. However, most of his success was based on the speed and quickness of receivers in the short passing game and the absolutely awful play in the Balt secondary in the 4th quarter.

 

Tua Passing Chart

 

This.. THIS is why we are not going nuts over this... Look at this pile of crap. Lets break this down.

 

How good is tua? How accurate is he? 

 

3 TD's 12 yards or less.

1 td 23 yards

2 over 40 yards air time.

he threw 5  times over 20 yards, 1 int, 1 inc in those 5 throws 

6 throws at or behind the LOS 1 inc

37-38 (idk i quick counted lol) throws inside the 20. 12 of those inc. (remember we are talking about throws just past the LOS here)

 

In my opinion Much respect needs to be given to Hill and Waddle but they are not throwing the ball. If Mahomes were throwing to these guys, I would respect the deep ball more but its Tua. I would still go 2 deep zone but play 1 S deeper then another and force Tua to throw in the middle of the field more. Dont motion with Hill or Waddle. thats just crazy.. stay home and shift slightly to their motion... no following across the LOS.

 

Baltimore did not play this style of offense correctly and got burned for it.

 

 

[HOUSE]

3 hours ago, DCOrange said:

I think Buffalo still wins next week (assuming we get through tonight relatively unscathed), but I think we can all agree it would be nice if we didn't have to deal with Hill/Waddle before White comes back.

 

On paper, Baltimore's defense might be better than ours; they obviously fell apart in the 2nd half with some strategic mistakes as well as just some blown coverages, but people are acting like their secondary is a joke. They have one of the best corner duos in the NFL and a good group of safeties (not Hyde/Poyer level, but still very good). There's a reason people believed Baltimore would be a top 5 defense this year and possibly #1. They have a lot of talent on that side of the ball even with the injuries they've had.

 

Having said that, I'd be very surprised if Buffalo makes the same mistakes Baltimore made yesterday and I don't think it's a hot take to say Tua probably won't throw for 400+ and 6 TDs again next week. I think our defense will make things much harder for Tua than Baltimore did. Hill, Waddle, and to an extent, Gesicki, are good enough that they might still be successful against us but obviously we're rightfully confident our offense will put up points too.

 

Long story short: Buffalo remains the better team, but Miami should have a good chance at making the playoffs IMO and I think both Tua and their defense are better than a lot of Bills fans give them credit for. I'd be disappointed and a little surprised if we lose next week, but Miami is a good team; they're probably going to beat some good teams like they did yesterday.

The Dolphins could still tank but they can't go around telling everyone

[Livinginthepast]

Tua had a great game and the last two TD throws were clutch, however one huge caveat on that. Are we talking about his huge day if that easy deflected pass is intercepted by the Ravens in the 2nd half? That would have killed the game right there and dropping that gift INT was for me the turning point in the entire game. The next play which was the TD bomb to Hill was also underthrown. If either of those Ravens Dbs makes the slightest effort to turn around, its an easy INT. So basically the defense just gave away 2 gift INTS and gets burned on a long bomb TD as punishment.   After that, yes Tua was excellent but had the Ravens taken care of business in either of those plays the game is over.

Edited September 19, 2022 by Livinginthepast

[The Frankish Reich]

I don’t get the Tua disparagement here. Let’s start with one premise absolutely everyone agrees with: 32 out of 32 NFL GMs would choose Josh Allen over Tua as their franchise-starting QB. So that’s not an issue. 
We’re then Left with (1) residual 1970s/80s Dolphin Hate - time to get over that; (2) “I told you so” know it alls who said Tua was too small, too whatever who hate to be proved wrong - get over that too. 
Maybe he’s getting it (last year)

and now has a coach and fantastic athletes (this year) and those things are helping him to get the most out of his non-Josh/non-Mahomes talents. Good for him. I like watching that short pass/explosive YAC offense, just as long as we aren’t the opposing team. It may not be enough to get you to a Super Bowl but it’s fun to watch. 
Finally, admit it. If we hadn’t taken Josh and instead had taken Darnold, we’d be all over Beane for not finding a way to get Tua when he came out of Bama. He would’ve been our best QB prospect since Kelly. 

Edited September 19, 2022 by The Frankish Reich

[Plano]

29 minutes ago, Livinginthepast said:

Tua had a great game and the last two TD throws were clutch, however one huge caveat on that. Are we talking about his huge day if that easy deflected pass is intercepted by the Ravens in the 2nd half? That would have killed the game right there and dropping that gift INT was for me the turning point in the entire game. The next play which was the TD bomb to Hill was also underthrown. If either of those Ravens Dbs makes the slightest effort to turn around, its an easy INT. So basically the defense just gave away 2 gift INTS and gets burned on a long bomb TD as punishment.   After that, yes Tua was excellent but had the Ravens taken care of business in either of those plays the game is over.

I couldn't agree with you more.

Nailed it.

 

Phins lose by 2 scores on any other day. the Ravens D failed miserably.

 

Bills won't be so weak on him. He'll be punished. 

[NickelCity]

I could be underestimating Tua, but if he does just enough to keep being the Dolphins' QB, I think that's a long term win for us. I don't think his ceiling is that high. 

[DCOrange]

58 minutes ago, Livinginthepast said:

Tua had a great game and the last two TD throws were clutch, however one huge caveat on that. Are we talking about his huge day if that easy deflected pass is intercepted by the Ravens in the 2nd half? That would have killed the game right there and dropping that gift INT was for me the turning point in the entire game. The next play which was the TD bomb to Hill was also underthrown. If either of those Ravens Dbs makes the slightest effort to turn around, its an easy INT. So basically the defense just gave away 2 gift INTS and gets burned on a long bomb TD as punishment.   After that, yes Tua was excellent but had the Ravens taken care of business in either of those plays the game is over.

I mean, you can play this game the other way too. It was a perfect throw to a very good WR. 9/10 times that’s an easy catch and nobody thinks anything of it. 

[Beck Water]

4 hours ago, FilthyBeast said:

I've said for months this is probably a game we lose.

 

I'm sure that's true, but given that you were predicting Dolphins victories and dominance last season and then NE dominance last season, that's hardly a shock, now, is it?

 

4 hours ago, FilthyBeast said:

The dominance over Miami in recent years has been great

 

Does anyone here believe you sincerely mean that?

[DrDawkinstein]

32 minutes ago, Plano said:

I couldn't agree with you more.

Nailed it.

 

Phins lose by 2 scores on any other day. the Ravens D failed miserably.

 

Bills won't be so weak on him. He'll be punished. 

 

Last year, AJ Epenesa knocked him out of the season. With the new DL, Von Miller might actually kill him.

[Scott7975]

7 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

There’s nothing better than a rivalry. Bring on all the Dolphin hype next week. Makes it a much more exciting week.

 

This part I will agree with.  We use to have a huge rivalry with Miami back in the day.  It was a ton of fun during the Kelly years.  Squish the fish signs in the Buffalo Newspaper for Miami week.  Rilvalry things going on in the news.  People getting pumped all week.  This type of stuff doesnt really happen much anymore.  However, dogging the other team and thinking their QB is trash is kinda part of that.  Its part of the same mindset that makes a rilvary what it is.  Instead of things like this we just get the oh woe is me the Bills are never going to win waaaaaa type of trolls.

5 hours ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Interesting take. Pass rush doesn't do much if they are three step drops and throws. 

The critical issues will be staying relatively tight to these guys in the short zones, tackle after the catch, and don't get stupid by letting these corners be on an island without safety help over top.  They should be in a 2 deep shell all night and make them dunk and dunk all night. 

Then play keep away with the football.  Run the ball and put some nice sustained drives together to keep the d fresh

 

Tua doesnt make tight window throws.  He doesnt even try.  The key to the pass rush is to have coverage from the snap and not allow those 3-5 yard windows for Tua to throw in that his receivers have been getting.

[Wayne Arnold]

If Dolphins and Bills are both great every year and battling for the division annually, that's a great thing.

 

I still think Tua blows, though. Ravens game was a fluke. Bills will take their souls next Sunday. And I will laugh.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

4 minutes ago, Wayne Arnold said:

If Dolphins and Bills are both great every year and battling for the division annually, that's a great thing.

 

I still think Tua blows, though. Ravens game was a fluke. Bills will take their souls next Sunday. And I will laugh.

 

[Beck Water]

21 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

Last year, AJ Epenesa knocked him out of the season. With the new DL, Von Miller might actually kill him.

 

To be fair, the Dolphins offense was much different last year and depended upon Tua standing in there and making his throws.

 

Now it's based upon quick short passes to speedy WR

Hopefully we'll have a plan for it, but planning on our DL getting home fast enough may not be that plan

[klos63]

16 hours ago, Lost said:

 

 

 

 

Good game for Tua no doubt but as long as we're keeping things in perspective,  the Ravens were dead last in the league in passing yards allowed in 2021.  3rd last in passing TDs allowed.   Bills were first in both categories.   I don't expect to see those kind of numbers against Buffalo or any competent defense.

I agree,  Ravens defense was terrible last year,  not much better this year. 

But Miami is dangerous,  big weapons on offense. 

[jkeerie]

6 minutes ago, klos63 said:

I agree,  Ravens defense was terrible last year,  not much better this year. 

But Miami is dangerous,  big weapons on offense. 

This is a correct assessment.  The key is getting Tua rattled and off his mark...and not letting those speed merchants run free.  The Bills are capable of beating any team in the league.  That doesn't mean they will.  It's any given Sunday and you cannot take any team for granted in this league.  Bills need to concentrate on the Titans this week...then the Dolphins next week.  One game at a time.