Mass shooting in Uvalde Texas...

[mjt328]

1 hour ago, SoTier said:

This doesn't even happen regularly in supposedly "backward" countries that are beset by conditions we "civilized" Americans consider hallmarks of countries on the brink of anarchy like extreme poverty, political unrest, criminal cartels, local warlords, civil war, etc.

 

It's time for Americans to have an "attitude adjustment" towards organizations and politicians who promote and support the idea that every nut has an absolute right to own as big and as deadly a firearms arsenal as they can afford.

 

I think it's important to separate the different kinds of "gun violence" in order to get a better handle on the solution.

People tend to throw ALL the gun numbers into a giant pot, when different cases may require a different remedy.

 

For instance, 97% of gun violence in America is done with handguns.  Not the high-powered rifles everyone is concerned about.

Around 80% of gun violence is done with illegally-obtained firearms, where existing laws were already ignored and disregarded.

The vast majority of gun violence is confined to a small number of large urban cities (New York, Chicago, Baltimore, etc.).

Also, most people don't realize that FBI gun violence statistics usually include suicide, which account for bout two-thirds of cases.

 

Gun violence is a huge problem in America.  No doubt.

But incidents like Uvalde and Buffalo don't even account for a tiny sliver of that.  Even if you take away suicide (which is clearly a mental-health issue), most of the gun problems in America stem from street violence poor in poor inner-cities, committed by criminals with illegally obtained weapons.  Banning certain rifles and installing extra background checks will do absolutely nothing to stop any of that.  This country would still have (by far) the worst gun violence numbers in the entire world.

 

 

[HappyDays]

15 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

What gets me... Is how did they neutralize the guy in Texas and not the guy on the EastSide of Buffalo? Both were wearing armor. 

 

I just saw this report:

 

 

Also in that report - he bought the AR-15 the day after his 18th birthday... Again I'm not asking for strict gun guntrol. But that's insane.

[HereComesTheReignAgain]

15 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

I think it's a definite: "No."

What gets me... Is how did they neutralize the guy in Texas and not the guy on the EastSide of Buffalo? Both were wearing armor. 

Body armor covers specific parts of the body. You are still vulnerable if hit in certain areas. The majority of security guards and police are not expert marksman and would not consistently hit unprotected areas on an assailant. If you have ever fired a handgun, you know how difficult it is to be accurate especially in a stressful situation. I would assume the police in Texas hit the assailant in areas not protected by armor or they had a high powered rifle that penetrated the armor. 

[Special K]

9 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

I just saw this report:

 

 

Also in that report - he bought the AR-15 the day after his 18th birthday... Again I'm not asking for strict gun guntrol. But that's insane.

 

I think raising the legal age to buy a gun to 25 should be something both sides of the argument can agree upon.

[muppy]

we are in dark dark times as a society when we continually are bombarded with senseless violence upon completely innocent victims. Evil cannot win people

 

it needs REBUKE. I posted a similar thought in the Tops shotting thread and I'll repeat it here because imo it is crucially significant. 

 

In the face of such a show of evil a proportionate show of LOVE needs to be the direct response by all we people to counter it.  People who have faith in a higher

 

power will Pray without ceasing it is needed More Not Less for answers and wisdom and guidance to as a nation get through this. Listen Im as frustrated

 

and sickened as anyone.  I will never not Trust that the God I serve cannot make something good from something so evil....somehow...someway.

 

Lord have mercy.

[Jauronimo]

Just now, Special K said:

 

I think raising the legal age to buy a gun to 25 should be something both sides of the argument can agree upon.

Prepare to be met with swift and vehement disagreement.

[mjt328]

30 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

I don't really subscribe to this belief, but I will say banning a specific type of rifle at the very best will only minimize the body count when these shootings happen. A handgun can still do a lot of damage. That isn't enough for me. I want policies that will prevent the shootings from happening in the first place. It's the same with people who say arm the teachers or have security officers in every school. That will only minimize the body count. The Uvalde shooter was shot at by police and was killed within one minute of entering the school. That was enough time to kill 20 people. If he had a handgun instead of a rifle there still would have been many children killed. There has to be a better way.

 

Even if we banned a "specific type of rifle"... or even banned ALL guns - would that have stopped the shooter from obtaining one?

If a person doesn't care about murdering children, murdering his own grandmother, and then either getting killed by police or spending his life in prison... they aren't the type of person who really cares about legal vs. illegal.

 

I don't believe anything can be done to totally prevent these types of incidents from happening.  There are wicked and evil people in this world.  

 

My opinion is that all schools should have a single point of entry, which is locked and secured at all times, with two armed security officers on-duty at all times.  

 

[K-9]

39 minutes ago, mjt328 said:

 

Even if we banned a "specific type of rifle"... or even banned ALL guns - would that have stopped the shooter from obtaining one?

If a person doesn't care about murdering children, murdering his own grandmother, and then either getting killed by police or spending his life in prison... they aren't the type of person who really cares about legal vs. illegal.

 

I don't believe anything can be done to totally prevent these types of incidents from happening.  There are wicked and evil people in this world.  

 

My opinion is that all schools should have a single point of entry, which is locked and secured at all times, with two armed security officers on-duty at all times.  

 

Yes, that’s that’s the answer: to harden every soft target in the country. Schools, shopping malls, grocery stores, and everywhere else that crowds gather all need to be locked, secured, and guarded. Make it harder for everyday people to go about their lives and continue to do nothing to make it difficult for these nut jobs to obtain the instruments we need protection from. 

[Warcodered]

56 minutes ago, Special K said:

 

I think raising the legal age to buy a gun to 25 should be something both sides of the argument can agree upon.

I don't necessarily disagree with the idea, but I don't see how that's realistic if they can't even do less major changes for gun regulation.

Edited May 25, 2022 by Warcodered

[Special K]

3 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

I don't necessarily disagree with the idea, but I don't see how that's realistic if they can't even do less major changes for gun regulation.

Sad but true....

[Nextmanup]

1 hour ago, Jauronimo said:

Prepare to be met with swift and vehement disagreement.

Kid in Texas can't buy a beer until he's 21.

But he can buy a military assault rifle and kill his fellow classmates at age 18.

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

 

'MURICA! 
 

 

[HappyDays]

1 hour ago, mjt328 said:

Even if we banned a "specific type of rifle"... or even banned ALL guns - would that have stopped the shooter from obtaining one?

 

I don't know. What I know is that the minute this psychopath turned 18 he was able to buy a high-powered killing machine with no hassle. He then freely walked into an elementary school carrying that weapon. I don't think a single solution is going to work. It's going to take a lot of changes. Unfortunately Congree can't agree on even one small change and every state has different policies. So I guess we've just accepted this is a Thing That Happens in the USA.

[Jauronimo]

2 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

Kid in Texas can't buy a beer until he's 21.

But he can buy a military assault rifle and kill his fellow classmates at age 18.

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

 

'MURICA! 
 

 

I didn't share an opinion on an age requirement to buy guns.  Just sharing the facts that setting a new age limit on the right to buy guns isn't something Americans will universally agree on no matter how sensible you may think it is.

1 minute ago, HappyDays said:

 

I don't know. What I know is that the minute this psychopath turned 18 he was able to buy a high-powered killing machine with no hassle. He then freely walked into an elementary school carrying that weapon. I don't think a single solution is going to work. It's going to take a lot of changes. Unfortunately Congree can't agree on even one small change and every state has different policies. So I guess we've just accepted this is a Thing That Happens in the USA.

You don't think all 18 year olds have the knowledge and savvy to find and buy an AR-15 on the street?  I don't either. 

 

The whole "if it can be procured illegally then we may as well give them away as door prizes at WalMart" argument is not very compelling to me.

[GoBills808]

1 hour ago, mjt328 said:

 

I think it's important to separate the different kinds of "gun violence" in order to get a better handle on the solution.

People tend to throw ALL the gun numbers into a giant pot, when different cases may require a different remedy.

 

For instance, 97% of gun violence in America is done with handguns.  Not the high-powered rifles everyone is concerned about.

Around 80% of gun violence is done with illegally-obtained firearms, where existing laws were already ignored and disregarded.

The vast majority of gun violence is confined to a small number of large urban cities (New York, Chicago, Baltimore, etc.).

Also, most people don't realize that FBI gun violence statistics usually include suicide, which account for bout two-thirds of cases.

 

Gun violence is a huge problem in America.  No doubt.

But incidents like Uvalde and Buffalo don't even account for a tiny sliver of that.  Even if you take away suicide (which is clearly a mental-health issue), most of the gun problems in America stem from street violence poor in poor inner-cities, committed by criminals with illegally obtained weapons.  Banning certain rifles and installing extra background checks will do absolutely nothing to stop any of that.  This country would still have (by far) the worst gun violence numbers in the entire world.

 

 

Now do semi automatics.

[HappyDays]

7 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

I didn't share an opinion on an age requirement to buy guns.  Just sharing the facts that setting a new age limit on the right to buy guns isn't something Americans will universally agree on no matter how sensible you may think it is.

You don't think all 18 year olds have the knowledge and savvy to find and buy an AR-15 on the street?  I don't either. 

 

The whole "if it can be procured illegally then we may as well give them away as door prizes at WalMart" argument is not very compelling to me.

 

I agree. Several arguments in favor of less gun control don't do it for me. If things being illegal doesn't stop people from doing them, why have laws at all? It's a ridiculous argument.

 

The one thing I've always leaned on is there a number of legal activities in America that inevitably lead to mass death. Automobiles, sugar and fat, contact sports, etc. As a free society we accept a certain level of risk to have dangerous and deadly activities available to us. It's better than the alternative. That's why I don't support outright banning any type of gun. To some people AR-15s are a leisure activity or a collectible. Not my cup of tea but it's their right. But I do support more restrictions on obtaining them and it feels like the large majority of Americans are on board with that too. The pro-gun lobby is so just large they make it impossible to create even sensible laws. So I don't know what the solution is.

[GoBills808]

8 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

I agree. Several arguments in favor of less gun control don't do it for me. If things being illegal doesn't stop people from doing them, why have laws at all? It's a ridiculous argument.

 

The one thing I've always leaned on is there a number of legal activities in America that inevitably lead to mass death. Automobiles, sugar and fat, contact sports, etc. As a free society we accept a certain level of risk to have dangerous and deadly activities available to us. It's better than the alternative. That's why I don't support outright banning any type of gun. To some people AR-15s are a leisure activity or a collectible. Not my cup of tea but it's their right. But I do support more restrictions on obtaining them and it feels like the large majority of Americans are on board with that too. The pro-gun lobby is so just large they make it impossible to create even sensible laws. So I don't know what the solution is.

I do.

 

Ban the sale and possession of semi automatic firearms. It’s not complicated.

[T&C]

Jeebus... the Gov of Texas is talking and some nutjob decides this is his time to make a declaration. Couldn't hear what he was saying though.

[teef]

3 hours ago, billsfan1959 said:

 

You are right, there is no easy solution. It is a problem involving a lot of different variables requiring a multifaceted, nationally consistent approach. Unfortunately, any reasonable national dialogue toward that end is completely drowned out by people shouting each other down from platforms of blame and extreme stances.

oh no doubt.

3 hours ago, aristocrat said:

The easiest solution to at least start for me is to ask how he even got in?  I saw a video that showed him just walk into the front door of the school. We have a massive fed budget in this country and these psychos get hyper focused on being school shooters so lets stop them from getting in. Spend all summer ensuring every school in the country has doors that are monitored by someone and locked at all times. Every school has 2-3 cops. If the shooters know it's a hard target it's unlikely they even try.  

that's a great question, and i haven't read through the thread, so i'm no sure if it was figured out.  i'm all for a drastic increase in security at schools.  i think it's the first immediate step any building can make.  i know budgets will be an issue, but come on.

[HereComesTheReignAgain]

40 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

I do.

 

Ban the sale and possession of semi automatic firearms. It’s not complicated.

How would you propose to get rid of the millions of semi automatic pistols that are currently owned by law abiding citizens?  Citizens that have never commited a crime but are instantly felons for owning a pistol.  Pistols that may be worth thousands of dollars each.  Where will we house all of these felons when they are arrested?  Better yet, who is going to go house to house confiscating the pistols?  Do you have a plan for implementing your solution?  I'm guessing you do since you feel it is not complicated.

 

I support common sense restrictions, background checks, improving the national background check database, age requirements, etc.  But your solution is impossible to implement and would cause countless additional deaths in order to actually remove the millions of handguns from citizens.     

Edited May 25, 2022 by HereComesTheReignAgain

[DasNootz]

2 hours ago, Special K said:

 

I think raising the legal age to buy a gun to 25 should be something both sides of the argument can agree upon.

Maybe varied degrees - 18 to own a hunting rifle/shotgun with limitation on clip size.  21 to own a handgun or larger magazine.