Mass shooting in Uvalde Texas...

[GoBills808]

Just now, Jauronimo said:

Whats your point?

That trying to explain mass shootings by any means other than the widespread availability of semi automatic weapons and its reflection as a whole in US gun culture is a red herring.

[Jauronimo]

2 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

That trying to explain mass shootings by any means other than the widespread availability of semi automatic weapons and its reflection as a whole in US gun culture is a red herring.

Who said it was the explanatory variable? Turning school shooters into celebrities in a country where you could buy an AR-15 at WalMart proved not to be a very good idea.

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, Jauronimo said:

Who said it was the explanatory variable? Turning school shooters into celebrities in a country where you could buy an AR-15 at WalMart proved not to be a very good idea.

Here:

 

3 hours ago, Simon said:

 

Can you think of a single widespread common factor that's made a significant change in almost everybody's life starting about 10-15 years ago?

 

2 hours ago, Simon said:

 

[frostbitmic]

3 hours ago, Simon said:

 

Can you think of a single widespread common factor that's made a significant change in almost everybody's life starting about 10-15 years ago?

The assault weapons ban becoming defunct in 2004

[K-9]

This is the mentality we are dealing with when it comes to the manufacture and marketing of semi-automatic assault rifles. This from Daniel Defense, the company that made the rifle used by the killer in Texas. Un F ing believable. 
 

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/crime-courts/maker-gun-used-uvalde-shooting-long-known-incendiary-ads-rcna30631

[HappyDays]

1 hour ago, Jauronimo said:

The media coverage of Columbine and VA Tech did irreparable harm to the country.   

 

Yeah the Columbine shooters in particular have become sort of antiheroes in the public consciousness. All that BS about the music they listened to and belonging to the "trenchcoat mafia". The truth is one was an utter psychopath and the other was very suggestible. They weren't really bullied that much and they had a group of friends. The media turned them into martyrs and I think we're still seeing the aftershocks of that coverage today.

[HappyDays]

35 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

That trying to explain mass shootings by any means other than the widespread availability of semi automatic weapons and its reflection as a whole in US gun culture is a red herring.

 

Israel has a lot of gun owners. I think we should model our system after theirs.

 

https://www.timesofisrael.com/comparing-america-to-israel-on-gun-laws-is-dishonest-and-revealing/

 

Quote

Israelis are well-armed, of course, but any similarity to conservative Americans masks a fundamental difference: In Israel, guns are tightly controlled and carefully tracked by the state.

 

Israelis must meet a detailed list of criteria to be allowed to own a firearm. They must ask the state for a license, are permitted only one gun at a time, and must even ask for permission to sell their gun. And the Firearms Licensing Department is no rubber stamp: Roughly 40 percent of requests are rejected.

 

Indeed, before even requesting a license, Israelis must meet minimum age requirements, be in good health and of sound mind, and have no criminal record, among other preconditions.

 

There’s more. Once they are granted the right to carry a gun, Israelis are limited to just 50 bullets in their possession at any given time. They must shoot or return old bullets before they can buy new ones, a process that can only take place at tightly regulated shooting ranges where each bullet’s sale is carefully registered. The types of guns permitted also depend on the reason for the license – i.e., a veterinarian may only purchase a gun approved by the government for the killing of animals, a hunter’s license only permits the purchase of a firearm from an approved firearms list kept by the Parks Authority, and so forth.

 

We don't need to be nearly as stringent as they are, but it starts the conversation.

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, HappyDays said:

 

The beginning of the article quotes Mike Huckabee on that exact point and says it's a poor comparison. Read the article then get back to me.

I don’t need to read it. It’s just as bad an argument from you as it was from him.

 

Israel doesn’t have anything resembling a 2nd Amendment, nor the collective fascination with firearms it engenders. If you want to see a good comparison look at Australia and their 1996 NFA. Problem solved.

[billsfan1959]

26 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

They portrayed Dylan, Eric, and Cho like commandos.  Non-stop pictures of them holding their weapons, dressed in their all black outfits or camo, posing with knives.  They aired manifestos and even made them sympathetic with the bullying angle.  It legitimized them and their actions.  Psychologists begged CNN and other news outlets to stop covering the killers in that light but what bigger story is there than mass violence?  It has inspired many copy cats.

 

Klebold and Harris produced hours of video leading up to the shootings. I was part of a group that reviewed the tapes to provide a recommendation regarding whether the tapes should be released or destroyed - and if released, what impact they might have on others. Our recommendation was to destroy the tapes and to release as little as possible of the information that portrayed them in the ways in which you describe. Unfortunately, much of the information did get out and you are right about much of the portrayal.

 

Columbine happened right at the beginning of the internet becoming affordable and accessible - and it wasn't long before those with thoughts "outside the norm", isolated in their rooms, could immerse themselves in information that normalized whatever distorted thoughts and desires they might be experiencing. One of the inherent byproducts of normalizing deviant desires is that it inherently reduces barriers to acting on those desires.  This has been at the core of the drastic increase in sexual offenses against children. The web is at once, one of the best and one of the worst things to ever come along. 

 

I agree with you about Klebold and Harris and media coverage in general with these types of events. Is it THE reason for the increase in deviant types of violence such, as mass shootings? No. But it is a real issue and variable in a very complicated problem.. 

 

 

[LeGOATski]

3 hours ago, K-9 said:

This is the mentality we are dealing with when it comes to the manufacture and marketing of semi-automatic assault rifles. This from Daniel Defense, the company that made the rifle used by the killer in Texas. Un F ing believable. 
 

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/crime-courts/maker-gun-used-uvalde-shooting-long-known-incendiary-ads-rcna30631

Morons

[Andy1]

11 hours ago, nedboy7 said:

Most police departments are absolutely in agreement for some type of gun control.  But you know.  NRA, money and corrupt politicians. 

If this is true, they need a PR campaign to push the message. They would be a very powerful voice who should be supported by the Back the Blue audience. At this point, I don’t hear any position voiced by law enforcement.

[Wacka]

On 5/24/2022 at 6:02 PM, HappyDays said:

It's Sandy Hook all over again. I don't understand how the shooter got in the school. I thought it was standard protocol now for schools to have security locks on the doors.

A teacher propped the door open.

[ExiledInIllinois]

10 minutes ago, Wacka said:

A teacher propped the door open.

Yeah... Heard that.  Going out to get a cellphone IIRC.  Crazy!

 

Sad state when the simplest miscues can lead to this. Such a crazy dangerous world out there... Nation awash with guns...

[Just Jack]

9 hours ago, f0neguy said:

I believe that banning assault rifles would be great but that’s easier said than done.   When I was in high school in the Southern Tier 40+ years ago we would go hunting before school and have shotguns on racks in the cabs of our trucks.  You could see them in the back windows.   There’s more to this than access to guns.   Teen suicide, depression, and behavioral issues are all way up.   I don’t know the answer and I don’t see us getting close to one.

 

I remember those days.  In my school you could even bring your gun into school if you did not have a vehicle. The main office would hold it for you till after school.  There were woods nearby that guys would go hunting in before and after school. 

[nedboy7]

5 hours ago, Jauronimo said:

Who said it was the explanatory variable? Turning school shooters into celebrities in a country where you could buy an AR-15 at WalMart proved not to be a very good idea.

This guy is a celebrity now cause they covered one of the most horrific stories ever?  Seems like a story that’s quite important. 

[nedboy7]

1 hour ago, Andy1 said:

If this is true, they need a PR campaign to push the message. They would be a very powerful voice who should be supported by the Back the Blue audience. At this point, I don’t hear any position voiced by law enforcement.

 

SALT LAKE CITY (AP) — The latest push to loosen gun laws in states across the U.S. has put police officers at odds with Republican lawmakers who usually trumpet support for law enforcement. 

In states like Texas, Tennessee and Louisiana, police opposed pushes to drop requirements for people to get background checks and training before carrying handguns in public, plans that came as gun sales continued to shatter records during the coronavirus pandemic. 

“We feel it was just another opportunity to get our officers hurt,” said Fabian Blache Jr., executive director of the Louisiana Chiefs of Police Association. “It was a danger to law enforcement.”

 

https://apnews.com/article/police-laws-gun-politics-41ba4360548ddc25672c797cd024af98

[nucci]

12 hours ago, K-9 said:

This is the mentality we are dealing with when it comes to the manufacture and marketing of semi-automatic assault rifles. This from Daniel Defense, the company that made the rifle used by the killer in Texas. Un F ing believable. 
 

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/crime-courts/maker-gun-used-uvalde-shooting-long-known-incendiary-ads-rcna30631

Holy crap

[SoTier]

 

19 hours ago, aristocrat said:

Uvalde is a town of 16000 people how many cops do they even have on their force?  Buffalo is a decent size city with a sizeable police force that can respond very quickly. Uvalde I imagine had to call in all off duty and surrounding areas for help.  That needs to be considered 

 

I live in a city with about 30,000 people -- almost twice the size of Uvalde -- and there are times when there are only 3 police officers on patrol in the entire city.   Crime in this town -- in this entire county with a population of around 120-130k --  mostly involves drug use, drug sales, DUI, and low level property crimes like burglary, vandalism, car theft etc.  I can't remember the last time any police officer in my city actually fired his/her revolver while on duty.   Training in active shooter response for LEOs in places like this is very abstract because police officers have virtually no experience in dealing with active gun violence.  Their experience with gun violence is almost always after the fact.  

Edited May 28, 2022 by SoTier

[SoTier]

20 hours ago, nedboy7 said:

 

Drug cartel crime makes much more sense to me than random school shootings. 

 

Most police departments are absolutely in agreement for some type of gun control.  But you know.  NRA, money and corrupt politicians. 

 

You know in the end none of this would happen if kids were trained in combat starting at age 4 and every kid was armed with a semi-auto for school hours. 

 

Sounds like a  plan to me ... but why limit arming school kids to just school hours?    IMO, requiring every American to have combat training and to carry a semi-automatic gun whenever they leave their homes would undoubtedly make the country infinitely safer.

 

// sarcasm off

[Saxum]

Right now what is happening which what happened after 9-11. 

 

After 9-11 big business went big into protection sales and the government beefed up workforce who were not qualified to do their job. 

Costs on airlines and other related businesses skyrocketed.

 

Now these businesses are targeting schools, schools often without money for other government mandates, with directed marketing to teacher groups and parents.

School my wife works at got several including phone calls and mailings.