Mass shooting in Uvalde Texas...

[Nextmanup]

38 minutes ago, PetermansRedemption said:

40% without one iota of a competent leader. Isn’t that crazy. And it was the border patrol that eventually went in? Unless that part of the story was a lie too (since this town can’t seem to get any part of the story correct). 

You can be sure they are working HARD right now on getting the story correct.

 

When the smoke clears, people are going to be fired, some aren't going to have badges anymore,  and some might even be in jail. 

 

What a colossal F-up this thing was.

 

[ALF]

18 minutes ago, aristocrat said:

Uvalde is a town of 16000 people how many cops do they even have on their force?  Buffalo is a decent size city with a sizeable police force that can respond very quickly. Uvalde I imagine had to call in all off duty and surrounding areas for help.  That needs to be considered 

 

Lockport is 20,000 with 52 police , 5 on normal patrol 24/7  not counting detectives. Town at city limit has 2 permanent sheriff patrol many more available from county. NYS police barracks nearby . When something happens in our small city there are more then enough police. 

[shrader]

22 minutes ago, aristocrat said:

Uvalde is a town of 16000 people how many cops do they even have on their force?  Buffalo is a decent size city with a sizeable police force that can respond very quickly. Uvalde I imagine had to call in all off duty and surrounding areas for help.  That needs to be considered 

 

And it doesn't matter all that much if 40% of the budget went to them if that 40% only amounts to $20.  Yes people want answers, but you can't, or at least shouldn't be passing judgement when you have so few of them.  There is guilt to go around.  We don't know where all of that lies yet, but we do at least know one person where it does fall.

[PetermansRedemption]

29 minutes ago, aristocrat said:

Uvalde is a town of 16000 people how many cops do they even have on their force?  Buffalo is a decent size city with a sizeable police force that can respond very quickly. Uvalde I imagine had to call in all off duty and surrounding areas for help.  That needs to be considered 

 I think the fact that it’s a small town should have actually helped them respond quicker. Even if all they have are two full time deputies. Uvalde is listed as 7.64 square miles. For a small city, you should be able to get anywhere within 5 minutes. The only excuse would be if they had no full time police department. But that doesn’t seem likely. If they had responded to the crash/reports of shots fired at two pedestrians faster than FOURTEEN minutes then the shooter wouldn’t have been able to enter the school. Fourteen minutes is an eternity in response time. Driving at a leisurely 40 miles an hour they could have got entirely across the city. 

Edited May 27, 2022 by PetermansRedemption

[HappyDays]

 

[HappyDays]

20 minutes ago, shrader said:

And it doesn't matter all that much if 40% of the budget went to them if that 40% only amounts to $20.

 

Apparently the Uvalde police budget was $4 million. I would love to know what that money was used for.

[HappyDays]

1 hour ago, shrader said:

 

Is that the policy when someone is pinned down in one spot like it sounds with the classroom?  It sounds like something more in line with when the shooter is on the move. 

 

Here's the official Texas DPS statement on it:

 

 

[aristocrat]

The door he entered was left propped open by a teacher. Normally locked. 

[HappyDays]

 

[nedboy7]

2 hours ago, PetermansRedemption said:

I kind of get where you were going with this, but it misses the mark IMO. Shouldn't use a country that has 1/3rd the population of the US yet has two to three times the total amount of homicides in any given year. 

I think it more points to an extreme cowardice on the part of this police department. Law enforcement around the country is trained to engage the threat immediately. The fact that this department couldn't find one competent scene commander for about an hour is inexcusable. Heads will roll for this one. Civil lawsuits are certain to follow. The mayor should already be preparing to fire the entirety of the police departments leadership. Compare this town to the response that Buffalo PD had, on scene within 2 minutes and entering immediately. One department should be hailed as heroes, the other should be fired for dereliction of duty. 

 

Ok let's go with India.  know their population?  They had 5 in the same time frame.  Agree on the law enforcement part.  Regardless we are a sick society. 

[HappyDays]

This information is getting worse by the minute.

 

 

[shrader]

47 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Here's the official Texas DPS statement on it:

 

 

 

Do they have official definitions for these situations?  The two don't seem to be mutually exclusive.  This is why I hate twitter.  Character limits aren't so great when you're trying to share information.

[Jauronimo]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

 

Apparently the Uvalde police budget was $4 million. I would love to know what that money was used for.

I hope it wasn't spent on arming them with military grade weapons, armored personnel carriers, and grenade launchers.  Whats the point of militarizing small town police forces if they're just going to sit on their hands when the action starts?  Fiscal responsibility NOW! 

[HappyDays]

12 minutes ago, shrader said:

 

Do they have official definitions for these situations?  The two don't seem to be mutually exclusive.  This is why I hate twitter.  Character limits aren't so great when you're trying to share information.

 

Yes, it is totally different situations. The protocol on handling active shooters has been the same since Columbine. The DPS press conference this afternoon showed everyone how much of a disaster the emergency response was. They didn't do anything right. More children probably died as a result.

 

 

But hey, the police have no legal obligation to protect anyone. All power and no liability. That's the American way.

[LeviF]

4 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

But hey, the police have no legal obligation to protect anyone. All power and no liability. That's the American way.

 

And yet the solution(s) proposed typically involve police being ultimately responsible for weapons confiscation and/or being the only ones who can own large classes of weapons.

[HappyDays]

Just now, LeviF said:

 

And yet the solution(s) proposed typically involve police being ultimately responsible for weapons confiscation and/or being the only ones who can own large classes of weapons.

 

I don't inherently trust the police to do anything right. If they do, that's great. The BPD did their job responding to the Tops shooter. I commend them for that. But the policies we enact to prevent these tragedies can't depend on them. Get security locks on every school in America and make it harder to obtain assault weapons. That's the only way we'll put an end to this senseless violence.

[f0neguy]

I believe that banning assault rifles would be great but that’s easier said than done.   When I was in high school in the Southern Tier 40+ years ago we would go hunting before school and have shotguns on racks in the cabs of our trucks.  You could see them in the back windows.   There’s more to this than access to guns.   Teen suicide, depression, and behavioral issues are all way up.   I don’t know the answer and I don’t see us getting close to one.

[LeGOATski]

36 minutes ago, shrader said:

 

Do they have official definitions for these situations?  The two don't seem to be mutually exclusive.  This is why I hate twitter.  Character limits aren't so great when you're trying to share information.

Absolutely. Police depts have a large and detailed ops handbook. An active shooter definitely supersedes a barricade situation. Barricade situations require that you wait for SWAT, which I assume is why they waited for border patrol. A lot of small depts don't have a swat team.

 

So 2 questions:

 

1. Why the ***** did they treat this as a barricade situation when it was obviously an active shooter in a school with small children? This seems like common sense, but with someone in a high pressure, life or death situation they often make stupid mistakes.

 

2. Why can't they have a SWAT team with a apparentky a budget of $4 million?

 

These are just questions popping into my head, but I know there are still more details to come out.

[716er]

2 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

Absolutely. Police depts have a large and detailed ops handbook. An active shooter definitely supersedes a barricade situation. Barricade situations require that you wait for SWAT, which I assume is why they waited for border patrol. A lot of small depts don't have a swat team.

 

So 2 questions:

 

1. Why the ***** did they treat this as a barricade situation when it was obviously an active shooter in a school with small children? This seems like common sense, but with someone in a high pressure, life or death situation they often make stupid mistakes.

 

2. Why can't they have a SWAT team with a apparentky a budget of $4 million?

 

These are just questions popping into my head, but I know there are still more details to come out.

 

FWIW Uvalde has what it calls a SWAT team. They brag about their skills all over their departments Facebook page. 

 

[Simon]

18 minutes ago, f0neguy said:

There’s more to this than access to guns.   Teen suicide, depression, and behavioral issues are all way up.   I don’t know the answer and I don’t see us getting close to one.

 

Can you think of a single widespread common factor that's made a significant change in almost everybody's life starting about 10-15 years ago?