Bills OTAs

[Warcodered]

56 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

It's like someone said earlier: if the Bills had focused more on offense over the off-season, he'd be talking about 13 seconds. 

 

After 2 years and that playoff game, it's time for Davis to get his shot at starting full-time.  They added Crowder to replace Beasley and drafted Cook and Shakir.  Worse come to worst, Julio Jones and Ty Hilton are still out there.

Bills win the Super Bowl and he's going to be very upset about the Bills picking 32nd.

[Billy Claude]

On 6/14/2022 at 8:26 PM, Logic said:

Other than...

re-signing Isaiah McKenzie (who plays a useful role in the offense year after year)
re-signing Ryan Bates (starter)
signing Jamison Crowder (presumed new starting slot receiver)
signing OJ Howard (presumed TE2)
signing Roger Saffold (presumed new starting left guard)
signing Tavon Austin

signing Duke Johnson

drafting James Cook (high capital on a pass catching back for Josh)

drafting Khalil Shakir (long term slot receiver and WR depth)

...You nailed it.

Totally sacrificed offensive investment.

 

 

When its listed like this, it is really not very much -- especially compared to the effort made to improve the defense.

 

McKenzie, Bates -- I know that they are expected to have a bigger role this season but it is hard to argue you've made your team better by resigning your own guys.

Crowder -- a wash or slight improvement over Beasley.

OJ Howard -- they say he looks pretty bad right now but hard to not be an improvement on TE2 considering the Bills TE2 situation last year.

Safford -- probably a wash compared with Daryl Williams

Austin -- 50/50 that he makes the 53.

Johnson -- a little extra depth a RB --  most likely will be T.J. Yeldon this year .

Shakir -- you are in trouble if you are relying on a 5th rounder to contribute in their rookie year.

Cook -- only real improvement that one should have confidence in.

 

Compare this to defense where you signed Von Miller, Settle,  Jones, Lawson, Phillips and a first round draft choice it is clear that Beane has been focused on defense this season.

  

 

[NewEra]

3 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Wrong… Tre White was fully healthy in the Championship game in 2020 and was absolutely torched by Hill and co…. You think Davis has that game against the Chiefs if Diggs isn’t on the other side? 
 

No way were they “noticeably worse” when White went down… what are you basing this on?

He was also healthy when we played them in October and shut them down for the most part. 
 

 

7 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

Why isn't running Allen that much sustainable? He is young, dynamic, his legs are a huge weapon, and his body seems more than able to sustain the tackles. His running just opens up the offense tremendously. Sure, injury is a concern but he can just as easily get injured trying to pass. I am all for Allen continuing to have designed runs and RPOs. The proof is in the results. When Allen ran the Bills won and the offense was excellent. 

It might be sustainable for a year, but the more he runs, the shorter his career will likely be. 

[ddaryl]

7 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

Why isn't running Allen that much sustainable? He is young, dynamic, his legs are a huge weapon, and his body seems more than able to sustain the tackles. His running just opens up the offense tremendously. Sure, injury is a concern but he can just as easily get injured trying to pass. I am all for Allen continuing to have designed runs and RPOs. The proof is in the results. When Allen ran the Bills won and the offense was excellent. 

 

 

You have a 250 million $$$ QB taking unnecessary hits. It is not sustainable.  Chances of a season ending injury continue to climb every time Allen gets hit. Yes he is big and strong, and can take on more then most QB's but we shouldn't be pressing that button when we do not have to.

If the season is on the line then let Allen run, but we need to limit his designed runs. Designed runs in the regular season is just an unnecessary risk.

[Warcodered]

 

[ddaryl]

1 hour ago, ScottLaw said:

Guys name is newcam and he’s asking that question😅

 

Don't know what your trying to say here. He was wondering why Allen's design runs are not sustainable and I answered that.

Not sure what I'm missing here

I have no clue to the relevance of the persons name and how that fits either

Edited June 16, 2022 by ddaryl

[ColoradoBills]

Another thread hijacked about Bills WR depth.  Once again talk of shootouts with KC.

 

KC lost Tyreek Hill.  Their top 3 WRs are as follows:

Juju Smith-Schuster

Marques Valdez-Scantling

Mercole Hardman

 

They drafted Skyy Moore.

 

They got the following as depth:

Corey Coleman

Josh Gordon and a bunch of JAGs.

 

Any Buffalo Bills fans want to trade WR rooms straight up with them?

 

[Virgil]

Interesting take on Howard.  Curious to see if he makes the team if this is true

 

Edited June 16, 2022 by Virgil

[Doc]

3 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

13 seconds was a complete coaching failure and mental let down with the defense put in position to fail…. are you really a doctor? 

 

And Tre White wouldn't have made a difference.  Do you have a brain?

[Son of a K-Gun]

14 minutes ago, Virgil said:

Interesting take on Howard.  Curious to see if he makes the team if this is true

 

 

Shades of Jacob Hollister?

[billsfan1959]

4 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

And Tre White wouldn't have made a difference.  Do you have a brain?

 

 

The sum of the square roots of any two sides of an isosceles triangle is equal to Beane and McDermott suck....

[HappyDays]

32 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

The suggestion made was @HappyDays would’ve swapped having Diggs for Tre White in the divisional game…. Try to keep up Doc. 

 

No, I said that it is arguable. Because in my mind Stefon Diggs and Tre White are equally important to the success of the team. Last year we paid for WR depth instead of CB depth and it hurt us in the end. I don't blame Beane for that. It's impossible to have good depth everywhere. My point is that you can't use one specific spot with weak depth as criticism of the yeam building strategy. Most teams don't even have good starters at every position, let alone good depth. I would argue the Bills have good to great starters at every position, except for maybe RT which is a bit of a question mark. That's the mark of a really good team.

[Doc]

1 hour ago, ScottLaw said:

The suggestion made was @HappyDays would’ve swapped having Diggs for Tre White in the divisional game…. Try to keep up Doc. 

 

And you made mention of the 2020 playoffs yet earlier in the 2021 season, with Tre, they easily defeated the Chiefs.  

[YattaOkasan]

3 hours ago, Billy Claude said:

 

 

When its listed like this, it is really not very much -- especially compared to the effort made to improve the defense.

 

McKenzie, Bates -- I know that they are expected to have a bigger role this season but it is hard to argue you've made your team better by resigning your own guys.

Crowder -- a wash or slight improvement over Beasley.

OJ Howard -- they say he looks pretty bad right now but hard to not be an improvement on TE2 considering the Bills TE2 situation last year.

Safford -- probably a wash compared with Daryl Williams

Austin -- 50/50 that he makes the 53.

Johnson -- a little extra depth a RB --  most likely will be T.J. Yeldon this year .

Shakir -- you are in trouble if you are relying on a 5th rounder to contribute in their rookie year.

Cook -- only real improvement that one should have confidence in.

 

Compare this to defense where you signed Von Miller, Settle,  Jones, Lawson, Phillips and a first round draft choice it is clear that Beane has been focused on defense this season.

  

 

Why are we all forgetting about david quessenberry?  He started on a dominant run blocking OL in Tenn last year (no dropoff in YPC after Henry went down).  At worst he is good swing tackle depth.  Considering Brown hasnt taken any snaps this offseason Quessenberry maybe starting RT opening day.  Im hoping for Brown to come back for camp but he had an up and down year. 

 

I agree with Joe Marinos breakdown of how the personnel changed for the offense

QB > push

RB > better

WR > worse but not a concern besides outside WR depth

OL > much better

 

When I look at it this way I think we have invested pretty well considering we were 3rd in points scored last year.  We didnt need the impact positions on offense (QB, WR1, LT) like we did for defense (CB, Edge) so it looks like a lot more investment on defense.

 

[BADOLBILZ]

11 hours ago, Doc said:

 

The first NE game was because of the wind.  And the offense scored plenty in the games around the Jags and Colts games.  Speaking of the Colts game, that was going to be a loss no matter what given the way the defense was playing against the run.

 

 

The primary issues with the offense last season were terrible pass blocking and a lack of a receiver who could take a short pass and make a big play.

 

Not having the John Brown type,  who could hit a HR on a short pass because his deep speed opened up space for him,   was the literal difference in the Jax and NE games.    The little screen pass for a long TD run to Brown was a play they had used to change the tenor of games where they had faltered......like late in the Seattle game in 2020 or against Baltimore in 2019.

 

Teams did not respect the YAC ability of the Bills receivers in 2021..........and with good reason.........they were the worst in the league at YAC.

 

They have passively attempted to address that problem with flyers on Crowder and Tavon Austin.

 

Crowder used to be an excellent YAC guy.......he once hung an 80 yard TD on Tremaine Edmunds.   But he's been injured A LOT.......and his YAC was terrible last season.

 

 Same story with Austin........he was never a good receiver but he AT LEAST used to be able to get some YAC.    Last year he was garbage in that regard......an abysmal, washed-the-f*ck-up 2.5 yards per.   That's why the Jags said no thanks.   He's tiny and injury prone.......so if he's juiceless he's useless.

 

And before anyone mentions McKenzie........forget about it.   He is not a downfield threat.   Teams know they can squat on his game and he's not instinctive enough to excel against zone coverage.   His ypr numbers look like a RB's.

 

James Cook is also an attempt to have that guy.........but make no mistake.........Cook is not a substitute for an ACTUAL receiver in the passing game.    The best receiving RB's still produce less in the pass game than a good slot receiver.    

 

And in the process of passively attempting to improve their YAC/explosiveness in the short passing game they've also neglected to replace the depth they lost outside when Sanders contract expired.

 

Could it work out?   Sure.   I'm watching the Yankees having an epic season despite the bottom of their lineup predictably being disgustingly bad at the plate.   The team stepped up in other areas.   If the Bills play historically great on defense or IF Crowder bounces back and Diggs and Davis stay healthy it might not matter at all.    

 

But what started this branch of the discussion was the declaration of people like @Logic that the Bills made similar investments in improving their offensive personnel as they did their defensive personnel this offseason.    And that is not the truth at all.

Edited June 16, 2022 by BADOLBILZ

[BADOLBILZ]

2 hours ago, Doc said:

 

And you made mention of the 2020 playoffs yet earlier in the 2021 season, with Tre, they easily defeated the Chiefs.  

 

Context.

 

Early in the season teams like the Bills were playing off coverage with extra coverage players against the Chiefs,  daring them to take short throws and run the football.    

 

KC wasn't taking the small stuff and was instead turning the ball over and getting beaten.    What the Bills did seemed significant until you watched KC continue to refuse to take the small gains early in the season.   The Titans annihilated them.    They were bad on offense and terrible on defense when the Bills first played them.

 

Same defensive game plan didn't work in January though.   The Chiefs adjusted at midseason and were being much more patient and methodical and playing great football in the process.   Mahomes killed the Bills in that divisional game with his feet and by taking shorter throws.........which later in the game turned into big plays because the rope-a-dope Bills defensive approach left the Bills totally exhausted on that side of the ball.

 

[BADOLBILZ]

4 hours ago, Virgil said:

Interesting take on Howard.  Curious to see if he makes the team if this is true

 

 

 

Fortunately he wasn't their biggest investment in a new pass catcher this offseason.

 

Oh, wait............he was.

 

[Dr. Who]

42 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Context.

 

Early in the season teams like the Bills were playing off coverage with extra coverage players against the Chiefs,  daring them to take short throws and run the football.    

 

KC wasn't taking the small stuff and was instead turning the ball over and getting beaten.    What the Bills did seemed significant until you watched KC continue to refuse to take the small gains early in the season.   The Titans annihilated them.    They were bad on offense and terrible on defense when the Bills first played them.

 

Same defensive game plan didn't work in January though.   The Chiefs adjusted at midseason and were being much more patient and methodical and playing great football in the process.   Mahomes killed the Bills in that divisional game with his feet and by taking shorter throws.........which later in the game turned into big plays because the rope-a-dope Bills defensive approach left the Bills totally exhausted on that side of the ball.

 

I've been watching football for over fifty years, but I don't claim to be an expert. So maybe this is a stupid question/observation, but I don't understand why there apparently wasn't a spy assigned to Mahomes in the divisional game. He just killed us with his legs. Shut that down, you likely win the game, and yet we seemingly had no answer and made no adjustments. Same D that was able to more or less contain Lamar Jackson couldn't do it against Ratface.

[Billy Claude]

7 hours ago, YattaOkasan said:

Why are we all forgetting about david quessenberry?  He started on a dominant run blocking OL in Tenn last year (no dropoff in YPC after Henry went down).  At worst he is good swing tackle depth.  Considering Brown hasnt taken any snaps this offseason Quessenberry maybe starting RT opening day.  Im hoping for Brown to come back for camp but he had an up and down year. 

 

I agree with Joe Marinos breakdown of how the personnel changed for the offense

QB > push

RB > better

WR > worse but not a concern besides outside WR depth

OL > much better

 

When I look at it this way I think we have invested pretty well considering we were 3rd in points scored last year.  We didnt need the impact positions on offense (QB, WR1, LT) like we did for defense (CB, Edge) so it looks like a lot more investment on defense.

 

 

I am surprised about Marino's take on the o-line unless he was comparing it to the start of last season. Ford, Feliciano, Morse, Williams and covid Dawkins is a pretty low bar to clear.   If he was comparing it the oline at the end of last year, the only change to the lineup will be Saffold replacing Williams.  From what everybody says Saffold should improve the run blocking but not super impressive at pass blocking.  He is also 35 years old, and has to take plays off if he gets hit a certain way.

 

As for Quessenberry, I guess he will add flexibility but he will be a improvement as a backup compared to Feliciano?   

 

Perhaps Marino is assuming that Spencer Brown and Tommy Doyle making major improvements?  Certainly one would expect 2nd year players to get better but it is also risky to assume big jumps.  We are also hoping that Bates six games is the real Bates.   So I don't see where one can be that confident that the oline will be much better.  Perhaps Marino's opinion is based on Kroemer being hired?

 

 

 

Edited June 17, 2022 by Billy Claude
mixed up Quessenberry and Saffold sack numbers

[Rico]

4 hours ago, YattaOkasan said:

Why are we all forgetting about david quessenberry?  He started on a dominant run blocking OL in Tenn last year (no dropoff in YPC after Henry went down).  At worst he is good swing tackle depth.  Considering Brown hasnt taken any snaps this offseason Quessenberry maybe starting RT opening day.  Im hoping for Brown to come back for camp but he had an up and down year. 

 

I agree with Joe Marinos breakdown of how the personnel changed for the offense

QB > push

RB > better

WR > worse but not a concern besides outside WR depth

OL > much better

 

When I look at it this way I think we have invested pretty well considering we were 3rd in points scored last year.  We didnt need the impact positions on offense (QB, WR1, LT) like we did for defense (CB, Edge) so it looks like a lot more investment on defense.

 

Why did the Titans let Quessenberry walk?