Bills OTAs

[BADOLBILZ]

2 hours ago, Logic said:

Other than...

re-signing Isaiah McKenzie (who plays a useful role in the offense year after year)
re-signing Ryan Bates (starter)
signing Jamison Crowder (presumed new starting slot receiver)
signing OJ Howard (presumed TE2)
signing Roger Saffold (presumed new starting left guard)
signing Tavon Austin

signing Duke Johnson

drafting James Cook (high capital on a pass catching back for Josh)

drafting Khalil Shakir (long term slot receiver and WR depth)

...You nailed it.

Totally sacrificed offensive investment.

 

He's correct,  you are wrong.

 

All you pointed out is the obvious fact that they are basically going to roster the same amount of offensive players.

 

They LITERALLY lessened their 2022 cap investment offensively to make room for more defense.

 

They replaced Beasley's 700 yards of production with the cheaper 450 yard Jamison Crowder.

 

They replaced the more versatile but more expensive 16 game starter Daryl Williams with the cheaper, but less reliably available Rodger(learn the spelling) Saffold.

 

Emmanuel Sanders was let go and his 625 yards receiving was not replaced with anything comparable.........they just hope to squeeze an extra 600 yards out of rookie-contract Gabe Davis or maybe from their RB/TE room.  

 

The TE group is the only one they really "added" pro talent to offensively.........and that was a very modest investment in a prove-it deal for OJ Howard. 

 

The draft value chart was again HEAVILY in favor of the defensive side as well.    

 

 

[BADOLBILZ]

29 minutes ago, NewEra said:

 We thought sanders would’ve been a great addition.  We were wrong.

 

Speak for yourself. 

 

 

[Milanos Milano]

Tavon Austin is going to be a contributor. It just feels different this time, Austin looks electric out there and what appears to be very healthy and fresh. 

 

Austin and Cook are going to add a nice dimension that was lacking last year. 

[BADOLBILZ]

2 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said:

Tavon Austin is going to be a contributor. It just feels different this time, Austin looks electric out there and what appears to be very healthy and fresh. 

 

Austin has been in Buffalo for a week,  hasn't put on pads and and hasn't done anything of note in his entire 9 year NFL career.......even less since 2016......an absolute "draft bust".......but it feels different this time? 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

He's correct,  you are wrong.

 

All you pointed out is the obvious fact that they are basically going to roster the same amount of offensive players.

 

They LITERALLY lessened their 2022 cap investment offensively to make room for more defense.

 

They replaced Beasley's 700 yards of production with the cheaper 450 yard Jamison Crowder.

 

They replaced the more versatile but more expensive 16 game starter Daryl Williams with the cheaper, but less reliably available Rodger(learn the spelling) Saffold.

 

Emmanuel Sanders was let go and his 625 yards receiving was not replaced with anything comparable.........they just hope to squeeze an extra 600 yards out of rookie-contract Gabe Davis or maybe from their RB/TE room.  

 

The TE group is the only one they really "added" pro talent to offensively.........and that was a very modest investment in a prove-it deal for OJ Howard. 

 

The draft value chart was again HEAVILY in favor of the defensive side as well.    

 

 

They’ve developed young talent. It’s not a hope. Davis and Knox deserve the extra targets they’re going to get. Both players could be in line for major contracts after the year, a reason why they didn’t add high cap on offense. The talent on offense is very good. Knox and Davis have earned more targets and will get them. We’re talking 50 or so more targets coming their way. I can see both over 100 targets. They’re are banking on Davis. If you believe Davis can be a true WR2 then our offensive weapons are strong. If you don’t believe in Davis then we could be in trouble if Diggs goes down.
 

Crowder is a better overall WR coming to Buffalo than Beasley was coming to Buffalo. I’m also very high on the potential of McKenzie. He’s also earned more targets.
 

The biggest problem I see on offense is the reliability factor. Crowder likely to miss games.

 

Shakir is basically where Davis was as a rookie entering camp.

Edited June 15, 2022 by Buffalo_Stampede

[HappyDays]

9 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Austin has been in Buffalo for a week,  hasn't put on pads and and hasn't done anything of note in his entire 9 year NFL career.......even less since 2016......an absolute "draft bust".......but it feels different this time? 

 

I'm not going to pretend Austin will suddenly become the superstar he was at WVU in his age 31 season, but he appears to be more than just a camp body like many of us thought. When we signed him I said it was "shuffling cards at the bottom of the deck," now I think he is about as likely to make the roster as 3-4 other WRs. After Diggs, Davis, and Shakir I don't see any WR as stone cold roster locks. If they keep Kumerow for special teams that likely leaves McKenzie, Crowder, Austin, and Stevenson competing for 2 spots. It wouldn't be totally shocking for Austin to win one of those spots and find a niche in this offense.

[nucci]

9 hours ago, Logic said:

Other than...

re-signing Isaiah McKenzie (who plays a useful role in the offense year after year)
re-signing Ryan Bates (starter)
signing Jamison Crowder (presumed new starting slot receiver)
signing OJ Howard (presumed TE2)
signing Roger Saffold (presumed new starting left guard)
signing Tavon Austin

signing Duke Johnson

drafting James Cook (high capital on a pass catching back for Josh)

drafting Khalil Shakir (long term slot receiver and WR depth)

...You nailed it.

Totally sacrificed offensive investment.

well, besides those....

[TPS]

7 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

They’ve developed young talent. It’s not a hope. Davis and Knox deserve the extra targets they’re going to get. Both players could be in line for major contracts after the year, a reason why they didn’t add high cap on offense. The talent on offense is very good. Knox and Davis have earned more targets and will get them. We’re talking 50 or so more targets coming their way. I can see both over 100 targets. They’re are banking on Davis. If you believe Davis can be a true WR2 then our offensive weapons are strong. If you don’t believe in Davis then we could be in trouble if Diggs goes down.
 

Crowder is a better overall WR coming to Buffalo than Beasley was coming to Buffalo. I’m also very high on the potential of McKenzie. He’s also earned more targets.
 

The biggest problem I see on offense is the reliability factor. Crowder likely to miss games.

 

Shakir is basically where Davis was as a rookie entering camp.

Yeah, that Beasley - Crowder comparison was definitely cherry picked using last year's numbers only.  Crowder's career numbers are better than Beasley's.

As for Sanders-Davis, they replaced a declining talent with a rising star. 

The (non O-line) offensive talent is better this year than last year, and the depth is improved. 

[BADOLBILZ]

9 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

I'm not going to pretend Austin will suddenly become the superstar he was at WVU in his age 31 season, but he appears to be more than just a camp body like many of us thought. When we signed him I said it was "shuffling cards at the bottom of the deck," now I think he is about as likely to make the roster as 3-4 other WRs. After Diggs, Davis, and Shakir I don't see any WR as stone cold roster locks. If they keep Kumerow for special teams that likely leaves McKenzie, Crowder, Austin, and Stevenson competing for 2 spots. It wouldn't be totally shocking for Austin to win one of those spots and find a niche in this offense.

 

 

If the argument is that the Bills WR room is very weak on paper after Diggs and Davis..........agreed........too thin for a team that expects to play a 20 game season.

 

But Tavon Austin hasn't had an impact in an NFL offense since 2016.

 

The definition of a "camp body" is much different since NFL practice squad rosters were expanded to include veterans during Covid.

 

Austin was brought in as an emergency option if there are injuries..........he is exactly the kind of washed up vet that a team would sign in a pinch after multiple injuries or Covid test fails in the season.........so it make sense to bring him in now and let him learn the offense with the anticipation that he will be on the PS if things don't fall apart in preseason.     

 

Like I said,  the Bills receiving corps is not as deep as it should be so it's not impossible that he makes the roster but I'd be LESS surprised if he retired between now and then than if he made the 53 coming out of camp.   

[eball]

12 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

If the argument is that the Bills WR room is very weak on paper after Diggs and Davis..........agreed........too thin for a team that expects to play a 20 game season.

 

But Tavon Austin hasn't had an impact in an NFL offense since 2016.

 

The definition of a "camp body" is much different since NFL practice squad rosters were expanded to include veterans during Covid.

 

Austin was brought in as an emergency option if there are injuries..........he is exactly the kind of washed up vet that a team would sign in a pinch after multiple injuries or Covid test fails in the season.........so it make sense to bring him in now and let him learn the offense with the anticipation that he will be on the PS if things don't fall apart in preseason.     

 

Like I said,  the Bills receiving corps is not as deep as it should be so it's not impossible that he makes the roster but I'd be LESS surprised if he retired between now and then than if he made the 53 coming out of camp.   

 

SiriusXM's Kirwan and Miller (some like them, some don't) evaluated all teams' WR "rooms" over the last week or so, and they graded the Bills overall WR corps at 17 pts out of 20.  It was obviously one of the highest grades in the league.  I don't think everyone agrees with you on the depth angle.  Crowder is a legitimate NFL receiver.  McKenzie has shown his worth.  Shakir is viewed as a steal of the draft.  I think they'll be fine...and I agree with you regarding Austin.

 

 

Edited June 15, 2022 by eball

[Milanos Milano]

Tavon Austin has speed still at his age. Cook has equally fast speed. Both were severely lacking last year and it will be noticeable this year. I expect both to be used in this offense. Josh Allen will make Austin a known name. I fully expect a career year for Austin. His 4 TD camp production is going to be a continuation this year. Austin finally has a HOF QB throwing to him and he’s healthy. 

[f0neguy]

I think it’s funny that every picture of Boogie (#55) is labeled Jerry Hughes 🫤.   Guys in shorts running around playing football, don’t take anything too seriously at this point.

[Milanos Milano]

With reports of Hodgins looking good, he might push Kumerow off the books. Him and Kumerow are competing for WR7 IMO. 
Austin and Shakir are likely 5/6. 

[BADOLBILZ]

2 hours ago, TPS said:

Yeah, that Beasley - Crowder comparison was definitely cherry picked using last year's numbers only.  Crowder's career numbers are better than Beasley's.

As for Sanders-Davis, they replaced a declining talent with a rising star. 

The (non O-line) offensive talent is better this year than last year, and the depth is improved. 

 

Beasley has been more productive than Crowder in 3 of the last 4 seasons..........in the NFL it's about what you've done lately.    Crowder got a cheap deal because he's  declined the last 2 seasons.

 

They didn't replace Sanders..........Davis was already there..........the question is can Davis stay healthy for a season,  he has been limited for stretches by foot injuries his first two seasons.........and he also is an anti-vaxer and missed the Bills biggest regular season game last season due to Covid.........Covid will still sideline players this season.

 

Last season at this time Daryl Williams was coming off a tremendous season where he was a top 5 starting RT in the NFL.    He shut down TJ Watt in their matchup in 2020.    Feliciano was seen as a solid starter/tone setter and Boettger had been good as a reserve in 2020.   Bates was their cherished backup at center.  Ford hadn't totally fallen off of a cliff like he did in 2021.    On paper they looked pretty good,   it's not a notably better OL in that regard than the one that ended up as the league worst in combined sacks and pressures allowed in 2021.    They could end up being a lot better but signing a swing tackle who gave up the most sacks in the league(Quessenberry, 11) didn't really change that dynamic much.

[Milanos Milano]

Cook and Austin have been blowing past defenders. Electric out there and a breath of fresh air. 

[CaliBills]

4 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Beasley has been more productive than Crowder in 3 of the last 4 seasons..........in the NFL it's about what you've done lately.    Crowder got a cheap deal because he's  declined the last 2 seasons.

 

They didn't replace Sanders..........Davis was already there..........the question is can Davis stay healthy for a season,  he has been limited for stretches by foot injuries his first two seasons.........and he also is an anti-vaxer and missed the Bills biggest regular season game last season due to Covid.........Covid will still sideline players this season.

 

Last season at this time Daryl Williams was coming off a tremendous season where he was a top 5 starting RT in the NFL.    He shut down TJ Watt in their matchup in 2020.    Feliciano was seen as a solid starter/tone setter and Boettger had been good as a reserve in 2020.   Bates was their cherished backup at center.  Ford hadn't totally fallen off of a cliff like he did in 2021.    On paper they looked pretty good,   it's not a notably better OL in that regard than the one that ended up as the league worst in combined sacks and pressures allowed in 2021.    They could end up being a lot better but signing a swing tackle who gave up the most sacks in the league(Quessenberry, 11) didn't really change that dynamic much.

 

Beasley argument is missing one significant and important variable.  Josh Allen.  You can't compare production when all the other variables are significantly different. Especially the QB.  Different Teams, Different QBs, Different Coaches, Different System.  

 

Sanders was meh last year, replacing him with younger talent in the draft is where they went. The covid thing is a reach and that can happen to any person on the team, regardless if vaxxed or not.  

 

Also, you are missing another variable in your O-line argument, Kromer. Who is known to be a top O-Line coach in the league compared to last years O-line coach. 

 

I dont man, you just seem to throw stuff out their to try and validate your argument but keep omitting variables that actually have a larger impact on said stuff.

[BADOLBILZ]

13 minutes ago, eball said:

 

SiriusXM's Kirwan and Miller (some like them, some don't) evaluated all teams' WR "rooms" over the last week or so, and they graded the Bills overall WR corps at 17 pts out of 20.  It was obviously one of the highest grades in the league.  I don't think everyone agrees with you on the depth angle.  Crowder is a legitimate NFL receiver.  McKenzie has shown his worth.  Shakir is viewed as a steal of the draft.  I think they'll be fine...and I agree with you regarding Austin.

 

 

 

 

Yeah I think the lazy evaluation is to just assume that everything will fall into place and all ceiling reached because the Bills have Josh Allen.    That's what you are going to get from national talking heads, IMO.   What I see is a back 3-4 group that hasn't shown the ceiling to provide relief in the event of an injury to the top 2-3.    If you know the significance of the numbers, there isn't a guy who you think,   "this guy could put up a 700 yard season" if Davis or Diggs goes down for extended periods.   It's a matchup league and that's what people forget in the offseason.   Can guys like Kumerow get open against starting NFL CB's?   On an individual basis this is a low ceiling group of reserves.   Now one player could change that........but right now they are very thin on the outside, in particular.  

[Milanos Milano]

7 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Yeah I think the lazy evaluation is to just assume that everything will fall into place and all ceiling reached because the Bills have Josh Allen.    That's what you are going to get from national talking heads, IMO.   What I see is a back 3-4 group that hasn't shown the ceiling to provide relief in the event of an injury to the top 2-3.    If you know the significance of the numbers, there isn't a guy who you think,   "this guy could put up a 700 yard season" if Davis or Diggs goes down for extended periods.   It's a matchup league and that's what people forget in the offseason.   Can guys like Kumerow get open against starting NFL CB's?   On an individual basis this is a low ceiling group of reserves.   Now one player could change that........but right now they are very thin on the outside, in particular.  

I feel like McKenzie and Austin have enough talent to where they could fill a WR2 role if needed. They just never really had the targets to get there. McKenzie proved what he could do with a proper workload. Austin has a filthy change of direction. You can already see the distinguished appearance in his game in camp. He will feast with Allen. 

[Logic]

 

11 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

He's correct,  you are wrong.

 

All you pointed out is the obvious fact that they are basically going to roster the same amount of offensive players.

 

They LITERALLY lessened their 2022 cap investment offensively to make room for more defense.

 

They replaced Beasley's 700 yards of production with the cheaper 450 yard Jamison Crowder.

 

They replaced the more versatile but more expensive 16 game starter Daryl Williams with the cheaper, but less reliably available Rodger(learn the spelling) Saffold.

 

Emmanuel Sanders was let go and his 625 yards receiving was not replaced with anything comparable.........they just hope to squeeze an extra 600 yards out of rookie-contract Gabe Davis or maybe from their RB/TE room.  

 

The TE group is the only one they really "added" pro talent to offensively.........and that was a very modest investment in a prove-it deal for OJ Howard. 

 

The draft value chart was again HEAVILY in favor of the defensive side as well.    

 

 

What a shocker. The Pessimism Twins are on the same page on this topic and BADOL is telling me I’m wrong. The more things change…
 

As for spending to improve the defense (even though, despite what you say, they DID also make moves to improve the offense)…Gosh, what a blunder!

 

I must have hallucinated the fact that the Bills offense put up 47 and 36 points in the playoffs this season, but the defense gave up 38 and 42 points to the Chiefs to get eliminated from the playoffs in consecutive years.

 

I’m convinced that you two will complain about the Bills’ decision making regardless. If they had invested big on offense like you wanted but not fixed the D-line, and the Bills went out and failed to produce pressure or stop the run this season, and Mahomes had all day to sit in the pocket and dissect them and send them packing again, it’s easy to guess who the very first two people on this forum to complain would be.

 

Lastly, BADOL, have you EVER been wrong? Like…even once? You must be on like a 40 or 50 year streak at this point. Very impressive.

 

 

 

 

Edited June 15, 2022 by Logic

[BADOLBILZ]

15 minutes ago, CaliBills said:

 

Beasley argument is missing one significant and important variable.  Josh Allen.  You can't compare production when all the other variables are significantly different. Especially the QB.  Different Teams, Different QBs, Different Coaches, Different System.  

 

Sanders was meh last year, replacing him with younger talent in the draft is where they went. The covid thing is a reach and that can happen to any person on the team, regardless if vaxxed or not.  

 

Also, you are missing another variable in your O-line argument, Kromer. Who is known to be a top O-Line coach in the league compared to last years O-line coach. 

 

I dont man, you just seem to throw stuff out their to try and validate your argument but keep omitting variables that actually have a larger impact on said stuff.

 

 

Ok.......well Crowder has also missed 4 games per season on average due to injuries in those last 4 years.   He's not been durable.    Beasley, on the other hand,  has missed just 2 games to injury and (like Gabe Davis) he missed one simply because he wasn't vaxed so he wasn't eligible to play(get your facts straight on that).

 

It's a lot like the Rodger Saffold situation.........they traded availability risk to save money.........which they then mostly invested in giving 4 DL starting caliber contracts(Miller, Jones, Settle, Phillips).  

 

If you think Sanders was meh...........ok.........but his "meh" regular season was more receiving yardage than any other receiver currently on the roster had in 2021 other than Diggs.    That's the point.   They did not replace production.    Sanders actually produced more than Davis in the regular season.   Davis battled a foot injury in the first half so it turned out to be very fortuitous that they had that kind of production available.    Jake Kumerow isn't that kind of option......you are just being willfully ignorant if you can't acknowledge that.

 

I'm not missing the Kromer variable at all.   Big Kromer fan.   Hoping for the best.  But the flip side is that there has been a lot of turnover in the offensive coaching staff in general.   New OL coach,  new QB coach,  new OC.    I hope for the best but anyone who doesn't think they were better positioned to repeat their success with the continuity of the staff that lead their dynamic 2020 offense is living in denial.   There is an uncertainty there that didn't exist going into 2021.   I'm not a fan in general of giving a new staff a lesser investment in offense.   Which is most certainly the direction they've gone.