Where do we sit on cap space?

[BillsFanForever19]

We currently have 89 of 90 roster spots filled. Beane has said he wants to have around 5 mil going into the year. We have very little space right now. If we make a move, it will be a veteran minimum one. The roster is pretty much set going into Camp.

 

5 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

I read on a pod cast that we are actually over on cap space now that we have signed our rookies (which would explain no bradberry CB)

 

 

Is anyone keeping track on where we are at right now?

 

Bradberry never made sense. If we were to be in on Bradberry, we'd have been in on him before the Draft and wouldn't have used our 1st on a CB. Bradberry was never going to go somewhere that didn't have a full time, unquestioned starter role for the entire season.

 

We weren't going to spend the 25th pick and our 4th Rounder to trade up for a CB and delegate him to 3rd Outside CB off the bench in his Rookie Season. We were never going to pay what Bradberry commands for the type of role he'd have had on this team, even if he were okay being depth. And if the Bills didn't think Elam had the ability to hold down CB2 in his Rookie year, we wouldn't have spent a 1st Round pick on him. Bradberry was never happening.

 

Our CB's are White and Elam. Dane will hold down the other spot alongside Elam until White is ready. They'll have Taron in the Nickel and Hyde and Poyer behind them. Maybe we bring in some veteran depth. But I don't know that anyone out there is that much of an upgrade over what we have at this stage in their careers. They might be fine with Cam Lewis and Christian Benford (and he could be the next Dane or Levi or better for all we know) behind them until White is ready.

Edited May 20, 2022 by BillsFanForever19

[Thurman#1]

12 hours ago, Big Turk said:

 

That's basic accounting work and can easily be done with a release or two and/or restructure.

 

 

Releases don't save as much as people think they will. There are often dead money costs, and the released player will be replaced on the top 51 by someone else, whose contract - though it will not be large - will need to be subtracted from the cap.

 

Re-structuring works, but it is simply borrowing from future years. It's simply putting things on the credit card. And we are already well over the cap for next year, 2023.

 

That's nonsense that it's just accounting work. It's active borrowing from the future, and if you're releasing guys who would otherwise make the team, doing so actively makes the roster weaker.

 

There are real-life negatives to doing these things. It's not just accounting

 

 

Edited May 20, 2022 by Thurman#1

[No_Matter_What]

1 hour ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Releases don't save as much as people think they will. There are often dead money costs, and the released player will be replaced on the top 51 by someone else, whose contract - though it will not be large - will need to be subtracted from the cap.

 

Re-structuring works, but it is simply borrowing from future years. It's simply putting things on the credit card. And we are already well over the cap for next year, 2023.

 

That's nonsense that it's just accounting work. It's active borrowing from the future, and if you're releasing guys who would otherwise make the team, doing so actively makes the roster weaker.

 

There are real-life negatives to doing these things. It's not just accounting

 

 

Very well put. People often say that everything can be solved by a simple restructure. While true, it has consequences. That is why we have already about zero cap space next year with about 34 players signed.

[Thurman#1]

10 minutes ago, No_Matter_What said:

Very well put. People often say that everything can be solved by a simple restructure. While true, it has consequences. That is why we have already about zero cap space next year with about 34 players signed.

 

 

Yup, $12.4M above the cap with 41 signed after the draft picks all penned their contracts. According to Spotrac.

 

IMO that's the reason Bradberry was never a consideration. The minute they brought in Von Miller there was not going to be another big FA on the menu.

 

 

Edited May 20, 2022 by Thurman#1

[No_Matter_What]

13 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

I read on a pod cast that we are actually over on cap space now that we have signed our rookies (which would explain no bradberry CB)

 

 

Is anyone keeping track on where we are at right now?

We have about $5M right now, which means that effectively we are about zero. Actual cap space is top51, whereas final cap space will be for full 53 man roster, which means about $1,7M - 1,8M more ($800 - $900k for each player). Plus all PS players count towards the cap, which is slighly over $3M.

 

Cutting player will not save any money unless we cut Ford or Matakevich, and even these two don't save too much.

 

So my guess is that we make one more restructure to make about $5M savings for in season purposes (White or Dawkins). Or maybe we extend Poyer, but I doubt that since I don't think we can afford him next year.

 

12 hours ago, 13 Second Prevent Defense said:

I saw about 5 million yesterday.   Next year we are 12 million in the hole.

This is not accurate. This is what Sportrac shows for the 2023 season, but it counts many players who will not be on 2022 roster. Once the season starts and all these players are cut, we will have about 33-35 players under contract for 2023 season with about zero cap space. So we are not in the hole, but very close to it

 

9 hours ago, NoSaint said:

which is 53 and players 52 and 53 will be, what, 660k each?

Where did you get this number? Players currently under the line have $920k and $903k cap hits, and I unless we keep any UDFA there won't be anyone on the roster with less than $750k cap hit.

[No_Matter_What]

3 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Yup, $12.4M above the cap with 41 signed after the draft picks all penned their contracts. According to Spotrac.

 

IMO that's the reason Bradberry was never a consideration. The minute they brought in Von Miller there was not going to be another big FA on the menu.

 

 

Not sure where did you take those 41 players from. To me Sportrac shows 62 players with 2023 contracts (58 if you deduct 4 with void year who do not have actual contracts).

 

But the way I see it is that you need to take out all players who will not be on 2022 roster and count only those who will be. We don't know for sure which players exactly, but we have quite a good idea and for this exercise you do not need to know exactly if we keep Stevenson or Hodgins.

 

So when I keep only real NFL players on the list I think we have around 33-35 players under contract with with cap space being around zero. However, Sportrac counts with $218M cap space, and there are other speculations that it could be as high as $225M. That would be great and give us much more room.

[strive_for_five_guy]

So can we be over the cap right now or not?  Seems to be differing conclusions in this thread.

[Chandler#81]

13 hours ago, Augie said:

 

Seems to be the story of my life…..  🤷‍♂️

Yep. We B Po..

[NoSaint]

3 hours ago, No_Matter_What said:

We have about $5M right now, which means that effectively we are about zero. Actual cap space is top51, whereas final cap space will be for full 53 man roster, which means about $1,7M - 1,8M more ($800 - $900k for each player). Plus all PS players count towards the cap, which is slighly over $3M.

 

Cutting player will not save any money unless we cut Ford or Matakevich, and even these two don't save too much.

 

So my guess is that we make one more restructure to make about $5M savings for in season purposes (White or Dawkins). Or maybe we extend Poyer, but I doubt that since I don't think we can afford him next year.

 

This is not accurate. This is what Sportrac shows for the 2023 season, but it counts many players who will not be on 2022 roster. Once the season starts and all these players are cut, we will have about 33-35 players under contract for 2023 season with about zero cap space. So we are not in the hole, but very close to it

 

Where did you get this number? Players currently under the line have $920k and $903k cap hits, and I unless we keep any UDFA there won't be anyone on the roster with less than $750k cap hit.

I pulled my hazy memory of league minimum pay and made the point that getting from 51 to 53 won’t be $5M. Good job saying it’s correct, but with extra detail. 
 

I did not think it mattered toooo terribly much to be exact as someone in the top 51 likely hits the road during cuts too so it’s not a particularly hard line number anyway. Going to 53 will definitely very slightly increase our spend, but also potentially have associated offsets.

[Big Turk]

5 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Releases don't save as much as people think they will. There are often dead money costs, and the released player will be replaced on the top 51 by someone else, whose contract - though it will not be large - will need to be subtracted from the cap.

 

Re-structuring works, but it is simply borrowing from future years. It's simply putting things on the credit card. And we are already well over the cap for next year, 2023.

 

That's nonsense that it's just accounting work. It's active borrowing from the future, and if you're releasing guys who would otherwise make the team, doing so actively makes the roster weaker.

 

There are real-life negatives to doing these things. It's not just accounting

 

 

 

Are you factoring in the cap will be going up 20-30 million next year or just looking at the same cap value?

 

Within 4-5 years the Cap will be over 300 million due to the massive TV deals that are kicking in. Plenty of kicking the can down the road space considering most of the extensions are already priced in.

[No_Matter_What]

2 hours ago, strive_for_five_guy said:

So can we be over the cap right now or not?  Seems to be differing conclusions in this thread.

We can't and we are not. That is not a matter of opinion, those are league rules. Formally we have roughly $5M cap space available, which is effectively zero cap space -  once 52nd and 53rd player ($1,7M - $1,8M) and whole practice squad ($3,2M - $3,5M) get accounted for.

 

15 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

Are you factoring in the cap will be going up 20-30 million next year or just looking at the same cap value?

 

Within 4-5 years the Cap will be over 300 million due to the massive TV deals that are kicking in. Plenty of kicking the can down the road space considering most of the extensions are already priced in.

Where did you get that number? Sportrac has it at $10M right now - increase from $208M to $218M. There are articles around the internet stating that it might be $220M - $225M next year, but I didn't see higher number. So we are probably looking at $17M increase max.

[Big Turk]

16 minutes ago, No_Matter_What said:

We can't and we are not. That is not a matter of opinion, those are league rules. Formally we have roughly $5M cap space available, which is effectively zero cap space -  once 52nd and 53rd player ($1,7M - $1,8M) and whole practice squad ($3,2M - $3,5M) get accounted for.

 

Where did you get that number? Sportrac has it at $10M right now - increase from $208M to $218M. There are articles around the internet stating that it might be $220M - $225M next year, but I didn't see higher number. So we are probably looking at $17M increase max.

 

It's going up a minimum of 20 million. TV contracts are massive

[John from Riverside]

3 hours ago, Chandler#81 said:

Yep. We B Po..

So poor we can’t even afford the OR

[strive_for_five_guy]

1 hour ago, No_Matter_What said:

We can't and we are not. That is not a matter of opinion, those are league rules. Formally we have roughly $5M cap space available, which is effectively zero cap space -  once 52nd and 53rd player ($1,7M - $1,8M) and whole practice squad ($3,2M - $3,5M) get accounted for.

 

Where did you get that number? Sportrac has it at $10M right now - increase from $208M to $218M. There are articles around the internet stating that it might be $220M - $225M next year, but I didn't see higher number. So we are probably looking at $17M increase max.

Got it.  Looking ahead to 2023 cap, does seem like it will be tough to retain Edmunds, Poyer and Knox, while also keeping Gabe Davis in mind too.  I’m probably forgetting other key pieces too.  Maybe with some restructuring and use of the franchise tag we’ll make some things work, but definitely a big year for all of those guys to prove their worth and Beane to solve for.  More reason to get our first Super Bowl win this season. 

[machine gun kelly]

An unpopular POV, but Knox will definitely be extended and TE’s usually don’t break the bank like other positions.  Davis will cost, and my unpopular is Poyer will not be extended as hate it.  I know he’s 32 so unlikely unless he would accept a 2 year extension at what he’s making now.  I doubt he will.  Edmunds, we’ll never know how the Bills view him.  Outsiders nationally like him, but we know TBDers mostly don’t like him.

 

The last article I read (can’t remember the source so can’t produce it, sorry), speculated it will go from $208 to $228 mil., but in 2024, they stated $256 mil.  It continues to balloon after going up on avg. around $18-20 mil the successive years.  We’ll need it to absorb these ballooning contracts.  We are maturing as a team with extensions at the right time.  Expect us to keep drafting a RB mid RD every year as they will let Motor and Moss walk.  It’s the new NFL you keep taking a guy between the 3rd to 4th rounds.  I expect we’ll also draft a LB and Safety next year.  Probably another G too.  Anyway, just mentioned as it pertains to the cap, not that I want to talk draft a year away.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

Where do we go from here now that 

 

all of our cap space is gone away

 

. 

 

Sorry Sunday morning Flash Back 

[Beerball]

On 5/19/2022 at 3:04 PM, KGun12TD said:

According to Overthecap.com we have $5,665,218.

TBN says $8.2.

[Mr. WEO]

The Bills don't sit when they cap space...

[Don Otreply]

From what I just read on the news portion of this site we are at 8.2 million of cap space, 

[Putin]

On 5/19/2022 at 3:35 PM, eee1776 said:

According to spotrac we have+$5,055.776. counting for 51.  Counting all players, we are-$23.784224 in the hole. We have about 16 million in dead cap money also.

Thanks Star