Insights into McDermott team-building philosophy

[GoBills808]

1 hour ago, Shaw66 said:

Why did it make you laugh?   It's admirable that he studies the ideas of creative people, not funny.

Because it’s rote. Anyone who’s every managed people in any capacity is going to say those things.

[Saxum]

4 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

Jordan won two scoring titles before Jackson took over, and Pippin was already there, but they had no success in the playoffs.  Everything changed when Jackson took over, and the reason it changed was that Jordan began to treat his teammates differently.  He still was a fiercely competitive guy who wasn't afraid to challenge his teammates, but his perspective on how to win changed.  

 

The changes in Jordan (there were sports articles written on it at time) were similar to changes Jimbo went through.  He was very much about ego and himself (fans did not help on this when they treated him as arriving hero) and he changed to be about a leader who made other players better.

[Bill from NYC]

4 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

BUT...the MOST egregious and utterly absurd thing you said is we "lucked" into Josh Allen.  If you say that, then that means KC "lucked" into Mahomes too.  Mahomes was graded anywhere from first to second round even though he was expected to go first round.  KC saw greatness and made a move to get him.  Josh Allen was expected to go in the first, but most people had Rosen going before him once Allen didn't go number 1 to Cleveland.  And as we know, a lot of people lost their minds, especially around here.  

 

No. Are you blind? KC made the trade with us to get Mahomes. That was a skillful move, not luck. We passed on a Super Bowl winning QB and were lucky to get Josh after doing something so stupid. 

If you can't see this there is no reason to talk any further.

Edited May 19, 2022 by Bill from NYC

[Bill from NYC]

3 hours ago, Magox said:

 

Bill, with all due respect, they did not luck into Josh Allen.  Without trading their first rounder to KC and trading other players that were popular with some of the fanbase accumulating draft capital, they would have never have landed Josh Allen.   The Bills purposely traded away that pick among other players targeting their franchise QB for 2018 which by all accounts was supposed to be a strong year for QB's.  

 

The Bills did what they did with a purpose and at the end of the day, the trade to KC most likely ended up being the right decision as they ended up getting a foundational defensive piece at a very important position and an elite franchise QB.

 

 

If you think that they made that trade with Josh Allen specifically in mind, that is fine but imo, highly unlikely. Unlike at least one person in this thread, I do not demand or even expect others to have to agree with me.

The good news is that Josh is a HOF talent and i enjoy watching him grow and excel.  Perhaps there will be a day when I look at Bills Management as a paradigm of football excellence. I'm just not there yet, ya know?  

[Alphadawg7]

4 hours ago, Bill from NYC said:

No. Are you blind? KC made the trade with us to get Mahomes. That was a skillful move, not luck. We passed on a Super Bowl winning QB and were lucky to get Josh after doing something so stupid. 

If you can't see this there is no reason to talkany further.

So Bills trading up to get Allen is luck, but KC trading up to get Mahomes is skill.  Ok got it. 
 

Supposed it was all just lucky we developed Allen in to the Superstar he is too.  
 

Why stop there, every pick we made that was a success must have been luck too then right?  Beane should become a professional lottery player because he sure does get “lucky” a lot.  

Edited May 20, 2022 by Alphadawg7

[TBBills]

I heard he isnt a good coach though... /sarcasm

[downunderbill]

33 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

If you think that they made that trade with Josh Allen specifically in mind, that is fine but imo, highly unlikely. Unlike at least one person in this thread, I do not demand or even expect others to have to agree with me.

The good news is that Josh is a HOF talent and i enjoy watching him grow and excel.  Perhaps there will be a day when I look at Bills Management as a paradigm of football excellence. I'm just not there yet, ya know?  

 

No one outside of that room knows what they were thinking? One of the only snippets I saw of where their mind was at was the leaked whiteboard which had #1 Wyoming #2 USC. It may be fake but you have as much insight into what was going through their minds before the draft as I do... Zero insight what so ever.

 

They didn't "luck" into anyone, as much as any elite player ever selected after maybe the first couple of picks was a lucky pick. They are professionals and did their due diligence on the players and you make it sound like they threw a dart at the wall. 

Edited May 19, 2022 by downunderbill

[Bill from NYC]

4 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

So Bills trading up to get Allen is luck, but KC trading up to get Mahomes is skill.  Bahahaha got it.  The utter ridiculousness of that statement should not surprise me after being on TSW all these years, yet I still somehow find it mind blowing someone still has the gall to say something so ridiculous. 
.

You would be well served to cut out the attitude of superiority. Some of your posts over the years have made little to no sense, yet you seem to constantly demand that we all fall in line behind your views, however stupid. 

Your screen name even points to childish behavior.

Hey.....why don't we simply block each other? Trust me, it will be no loss on this end.

4 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Not really fair to say though given he is maybe the best player in the NFL right now and was taken 7th overall.  For me, hitting big on guys like Milano, Davis, etc late are just as good of picks as hitting on a first rounder.  

 

Yeah, the picks of Milano and Davis were as good as picking Josh Allen. You should have your own syndicated talk show with pearls of wisdom like this. 😁🤣😂

[Shaw66]

1 hour ago, Limeaid said:

 

The changes in Jordan (there were sports articles written on it at time) were similar to changes Jimbo went through.  He was very much about ego and himself (fans did not help on this when they treated him as arriving hero) and he changed to be about a leader who made other players better.

I remembered that as I've been reading.  Jackson described.  He said Jordan wanted to win desperately, and he was obviously better than everyone, so he naturally assumed that it was best if he had the ball and he did the shooting.  

 

There's a funny story in the book.  Jackson went to Jordan to talk to him about being serious about the triangle offense and about reducing his scoring.  Jackson knew that would be a problem for Jordan, because winning the scoring title every year was very important to him.   Jackson, of course, was selling it to Jordan from the point of that he could win more.  Jordan thought about it for a minute, and then said, "Well, if we're running the triangle, I still can score 8 points a quarter.  That's 32 for the game, less than I'm scoring now, but still enough to lead the league.   Okay, I'll do it."   And that's how Jackson got Jordan to agree. 

 

After a year or two, as the team developed it's understanding of the offense, Jordan could see how much better the team was and became a big fan of the offense.   

 

On a lesser scale, I think McDermott got to Hughes in order to get Hughes to play the role he needed to handle on the edge.  

[HappyDays]

56 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

We passed on a Super Bowl winning QB and were lucky to get Josh after doing something so stupid. 

 

This has been re-litigated to death. We were never going to take a QB in the 2017 draft. McDermott came in too late and we didn't have an official GM yet. Carolina had no reason to scout QBs at that time and we were basically going off of their draft board. No chance McDermott was going to make the biggest decision an NFL franchise can make without a year of preparation with his own hirees. The plan was always to collect draft capital to use to secure a QB in 2018 and thankfully they made the move for the best one. There is nothing to criticize about the 2017 draft strategy.

[GoBills808]

4 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

This has been re-litigated to death. We were never going to take a QB in the 2017 draft. McDermott came in too late and we didn't have an official GM yet. Carolina had no reason to scout QBs at that time and we were basically going off of their draft board. No chance McDermott was going to make the biggest decision an NFL franchise can make without a year of preparation with his own hirees. The plan was always to collect draft capital to use to secure a QB in 2018 and thankfully they made the move for the best one. There is nothing to criticize about the 2017 draft strategy.

Upthread it’s been said that the 2017 draft was all due to McDermott’s prowess…that doesn’t quite square with the idea that he simply used Carolina’s draft board.

[HappyDays]

Just now, GoBills808 said:

Upthread it’s been said that the 2017 draft was all due to McDermott’s prowess…that doesn’t quite square with the idea that he simply used Carolina’s draft board.

 

I don't agree that McDermott ran that draft solo. I'm 95% confident Beane was unofficially involved. It's been pointed out that many of the players we drafted that year had pre-draft meetings with Carolina. And I think we traded up once or twice specifically to get in front of them to take players they had visited with. It's the only narrative that makes sense. 

[Saxum]

4 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

This has been re-litigated to death. We were never going to take a QB in the 2017 draft. McDermott came in too late and we didn't have an official GM yet. Carolina had no reason to scout QBs at that time and we were basically going off of their draft board. No chance McDermott was going to make the biggest decision an NFL franchise can make without a year of preparation with his own hirees. The plan was always to collect draft capital to use to secure a QB in 2018 and thankfully they made the move for the best one. There is nothing to criticize about the 2017 draft strategy.

 

Agreed,  Bills spent a tremendous amount of time scouting Allen, far more than they did other QBs, and when you look at it after the draft he was their target but they did due diligence to on other QBs in case they could not get him. If Browns had gone another way or Bills could not have found a trading partner after moving up they may have to draft 4th or 5th QB on their list.

3 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Upthread it’s been said that the 2017 draft was all due to McDermott’s prowess…that doesn’t quite square with the idea that he simply used Carolina’s draft board.

 

McDermott used information from Whaley's scouts but I am sure he was part of evaluation of potential DEFENSE players for Carolina.

[GoBills808]

2 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

 

McDermott used information from Whaley's scouts but I am sure he was part of evaluation of potential DEFENSE players for Carolina.

I think he used information from Beane.

[HappyDays]

Just now, GoBills808 said:

I think he used information from Beane.

 

I think the extent of McDermott's involvement with the draft is making sure Beane and the scouting staff know the types of players he needs, and then he trusts them to go out and find them. It's one of the reasons this regime has been so successful despite somewhat middling draft results overall. Even if we don't always draft the best talent available, we almost always end up finding players that can contribute because the front office and coaching staff are in lock step with each other. Many fans have criticized the Terrel Bernard pick, I don't know if he'll end up being the best possible pick at that spot but I do know that McDermott has a role in mind for him and told Beane to make sure he came out of this offseason with that role filled.

[BADOLBILZ]

5 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

But two of the players you point out that they "left on the board" are corners who are not as good as Tre (though very good players in their own right). 

 

That draft was 100% McDermott's call. So if you want to blame then blame away. It is the best draft of my fandom, though I take the point that if they had struck out at QB in 2018 that likely wouldn't have mattered. 

 

 

You mean 2018 is the best draft of your fandom.

 

Allen alone is more valuable than the entire 2017 draft........and he and Wyatt Teller are both All Pro's from that Bills class.

 

Edmunds, Phillips, Taron Johnson all productive players and Neal is in his 5th year with team as well.

 

2017 yielded 3 very good players though.

 

Those two drafts are proof positive that having a lot of needs makes it easier to draft well...........because inevitably most teams will reach around a better player to fill a  need.......Beane is no exception.

 

1985 is probably the best of my Bills fandom.........Bruce and Andre both HOF'ers.   Derrick Burroughs was an outstanding young player who they lost too soon.    Chris Burkett was a really good WR for a few years and of course Frank Reich was a really good backup QB.

[JerseyBills]

McBeane has been a blessing.  They'll value a player with less skill and high character over a player with more but could cause distraction and division in the locker room. 

These guys just get IT. The same IT factor that our core players have. 

They were born for this and took a perennial terrible team into the gold standard in team building. 

The only thing missing is Super Bowls.. 

[Alphadawg7]

5 hours ago, Bill from NYC said:

You would be well served to cut out the attitude of superiority. Some of your posts over the years have made little to no sense, yet you seem to constantly demand that we all fall in line behind your views, however stupid. 

Your screen name even points to childish behavior.

Hey.....why don't we simply block each other? Trust me, it will be no loss on this end.

Yeah, the picks of Milano and Davis were as good as picking Josh Allen. You should have your own syndicated talk show with pearls of wisdom like this. 😁🤣😂

 

I mean it’s a message board where people debate their point of views. I actually appreciate other peoples point of views, it’s the best part of this board, the open discussion and varying perspectives and definitely dont demand people fall in line behind my views.
 

And if you are going to say something like when another team does it then its “genius” but when we do it we are dumb and “lucky" then you should expect some push back. 

 

Especially given this same front office that not only hit on Allen, but systematically dismantled the old roster, 17 years of losing, and built (mostly through the draft) what is widely considered the best roster in the NFL, with an odds on MVP favorite and the betting favorite to be SB champions.  
 

That’s not luck, that is a well run organization from top to bottom whose hard work has paid dividends.  
 

Cheers, GoBills.  

 

Edited May 20, 2022 by Alphadawg7

[Saxum]

34 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

I think he used information from Beane.

 

You think he is a cheater and Beane working for Carolina passed information to him.

I guess it is what you would have done in that position but I do not think Beane would have provided it or Coach McD asked for it.

[Mr. WEO]

Jackson coached the Bulls to 3 rings beginning  a year after he got there.

 

Ultimate success has to start under McD soon...