Insights into McDermott team-building philosophy

[Magox]

46 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

I thank you for this well thought post and respect the work that you put into it. I do not however think that it applies all that much to McDermott.

 

The Bills are winning because the lucked into Josh Allen (a HOF talent imo) after trading away the pick for Mahomes, at which time they moved from 10 to 27 with a very small return. To do so, they left the following players on board to draft a cornerback:

Patrick Mahomes
Deshaun Watson
Marshon Lattimore
Marlon Humphrey
TJ Watt

This was utter stupidity, although it is hard to guage how much of the blame falls on McDermott.  Please don't misunderstand this post. I think that McDermott is a good coach.  Now, he did not invent this term "process" of which he speaks, but he did at least co-opt it from a truly great coach. 

I guess my point is that although I am satisfied with McDermott, if he didn't luck into Allen ths team would more than likely still suck, and he would have probably been fired by now, good coach or not. 

 

Obviously the above is jmo and I repeat my compliments on your post.

 

Bill, with all due respect, they did not luck into Josh Allen.  Without trading their first rounder to KC and trading other players that were popular with some of the fanbase accumulating draft capital, they would have never have landed Josh Allen.   The Bills purposely traded away that pick among other players targeting their franchise QB for 2018 which by all accounts was supposed to be a strong year for QB's.  

 

The Bills did what they did with a purpose and at the end of the day, the trade to KC most likely ended up being the right decision as they ended up getting a foundational defensive piece at a very important position and an elite franchise QB.

 

 

[Alphadawg7]

11 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

I didn’t take it as luck so much as it worked out better than anyone could have reasonably foretold. In that sense it was a lucky pick.

I think by any objective analysis 2018 is the best draft.

 

Anyone saying Allen is lucky pick needs to immediately follow it up with saying Mahomes was a lucky pick for KC too then.  There is no logic at all that makes Allen a "lucky" pick and not Mahomes.  They have basically the same story...divided opinion prospects coming into the draft on where they ranked amongst the other QB's who both had mechanics question marks.  Both had teams traded up to get them...both became the two best young QB's in football and amongst the best players overall in the NFL.  

 

If one is luck, they are both luck.  But the reality is that neither were lucky, KC and Buffalo did their homework and they went and got the guy they studied and believed in.  To say its luck after the immense amount of time and work those two staffs put into identifying these were the right guys is ridiculous.  When KC took Mahomes, everyone assumed Watson would go first.  When Buffalo took Allen, people lost their minds it wasn't Rosen.  

 

Nothing about it was luck, both teams spent an insane amount of time to determine these were their guys over the other ones on the board most people had "graded" higher.  

 

Its more like the fan base got lucky that our FO didn't listen to the fans and take someone else.  

Edited May 19, 2022 by Alphadawg7

[stevewin]

49 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

McDermott seems always to be studying.  I would bet he's read this book, and I wouldn't be surprised if he sought out Jackson at some time to talk about this stuff.  

[Shaw66]

4 minutes ago, First Round Bust said:

I don' t doubt McDermott has read-up on, attended seminars or incorporated ideas and best practices from others...

 

In his own right...McD is a highly intelligent and motivated individual...his wrestling championships in the state of PA (a big wrestling state) takes a lot dedication and determination.

I met one of high school friends last fall, we talked wrestling (we had that in common) who called McD the most motivated individual he has ever met, but had a sense of humor and liked to pull well-planned practical jokes.

 

Getting into William Mary is another significant achievement, esp for an out-of-state student, plus he walked-on and made the team...playing-practicing sports while going to a demanding program like that is next to amazing...my son went there and he told stories about kids freaking-out over getting their first non-A grades of their entire lives there.

 

Coaching tree - he developed under some really good ones:

 

Played for Jimmy Laycock who coached at W&M  (played along with Mike Tomlin) 

Eleven of Laycock's assistants became head coaches in the NCAA or NFL, including Dan Quinn and Brian Daboll.  Laycock coached for 38 years, retiring with the third-longest continuous head coaching tenure in NCAA Division I football history.  He also played qb at W&M as was coached by Marv Levy and Lou Holtz.

 

12 years with the Eagles under Andy Reid and Jim Johnson - one super bowl appearance - you know Reid's story but Johnson had 40 year coaching career overall, and was Eagles  DC for 9 years, Andy Reid called and paid him the best.  (Johnson played one year for the Bills in 1963-64)...McDermott took over in 2009 and was fired by Reid in 2012.

 

5 years as Carolina DC under Ron Rivera - second Super Bowl appearance in 2015 and  second runner up to their Defensive Coordinator of the Year award in 2015.[

As the Panthers' defensive coordinator, McDermott led the team to finishes in the top ten in overall defense from 2012–2015.

 

When the Bills plane lands at the airport from  a road game, most go home, McD goes to his office at the stadium and reviews and prepares for the review and preparation the next day.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for this.  It's a great summary of how he got to where he is.   There's never been much doubt that his nonstop self-improvement philosophy, his intelligence, and his open-mindedness made him the kind of coach he is.  

 

There's a little bit, or probably more than a little bit, of Mr. Rogers in him, too.  

[Ethan in Cleveland]

Phil Jackson is a complete fraud. He had the best player of all time in Chicago and in LA he had 2 of the top 10 best players of all time. He didn't do anything in NY when he didn't have a superstar.  

[GunnerBill]

13 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

 

I think by any objective analysis 2018 is the best draft.

 

2018 brought the single most important player, 2017 brought 3 cornerstone players. Now don't get me wrong even a franchise left tackle and an elite corner don't match up to QB in importance. But to nail three picks like they did in 2017, and two of them at two of the top 5 premium positions on the field is a terrific draft and that's the basis on which I'd put it ahead of 2018 as an overall draft. I get it, Allen has the single biggest impact on winning, that is beyond question. 

[GoBills808]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

2018 brought the single most important player, 2017 brought 3 cornerstone players. Now don't get me wrong even a franchise left tackle and an elite corner don't match up to QB in importance. But to nail three picks like they did in 2017, and two of them at two of the top 5 premium positions on the field is a terrific draft and that's the basis on which I'd put it ahead of 2018 as an overall draft. I get it, Allen has the single biggest impact on winning, that is beyond question. 

They also got Taron Johnson, Edmunds, and Wyatt Teller in 2018.

[GunnerBill]

15 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Not really fair to say though given he is maybe the best player in the NFL right now and was taken 7th overall.  For me, hitting big on guys like Milano, Davis, etc late are just as good of picks as hitting on a first rounder.  

 

But yes, importance and value wise to the franchise, Allen is the best and most important pick.  But we saw guys like Brees, Stafford, Rivers, Rodgers, Ryan, etc be prolific passers and struggle to make the playoffs or struggle to get to the big dance.  Why, because as important as those QB's are, its still vitally important they build a team around them.  

 

This is why its always said, "teams" are build in the middle of the draft.  And that is something our FO has been very good at and why we have the best roster in the NFL right now in many peoples eyes.  

 

I agree totally. It isn't just as simple as draft the best QB and win. You have to have a team. 

[Shaw66]

7 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Its more like the fan base got lucky that our FO didn't listen to the fans and take someone else.  

So true. 

 

The Bills actually liked Mahomes, and apparently there those in the organization who wanted to take him at 10.   My sense of what happened is that, as always, McDermott took a disciplined approach.   He wasn't in a hurry.  He wanted the right people around him in the front office to make the decision on the most important position on the team.  It's overused, but he knew he was running a marathon and he understood there was no need to sprint to the lead in 2017.

[GunnerBill]

Just now, GoBills808 said:

They also got Taron Johnson, Edmunds, and Wyatt Teller in 2018.

 

Fair. Taron is a very good nickel. Teller, even though not here, is an excellent guard. Edmunds is a good middle linebacker. But they are not premium positions in the same way that left tackle and #1 outside corner are. 2018 was a very fine draft, not doubting that for a moment, they got Siran Neal too who is a 2nd contract guy now also and elite at the thing he is on the team to do. If Tremaine becomes a 2nd contract guy and finds a more consistent level to his game he is the piece that would push 2018 to the front of the queue for me weighing it all up. Because at the moment it's 3-3 on second contract guys but two of the 3 from 2018 are a nickel and a gunner. 

2 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

So true. 

 

The Bills actually liked Mahomes, and apparently there those in the organization who wanted to take him at 10.   My sense of what happened is that, as always, McDermott took a disciplined approach.   He wasn't in a hurry.  He wanted the right people around him in the front office to make the decision on the most important position on the team.  It's overused, but he knew he was running a marathon and he understood there was no need to sprint to the lead in 2017.

 

Doug Whaley certainly tells everyone he loved Mahomes....

[Alphadawg7]

5 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

So true. 

 

The Bills actually liked Mahomes, and apparently there those in the organization who wanted to take him at 10.   My sense of what happened is that, as always, McDermott took a disciplined approach.   He wasn't in a hurry.  He wanted the right people around him in the front office to make the decision on the most important position on the team.  It's overused, but he knew he was running a marathon and he understood there was no need to sprint to the lead in 2017.

 

Yeah, also people forget the Bills were tied for 5th in scoring in the NFL the year prior and were amongst the worst defensively.  In fact, heading into the final game of the season (after firing Rex and we sat Tyrod) NO and ATL were tied for most TDs in the league, and we were right behind them with only 3 less.  

 

We finished the year statistically on defense like late teens ranking, but that was only because Brady was suspended 4 games and we got a lucky shut out when Brady and Jimmy G were hurt along with Gronk during week 4.  They would put up over 30 on us next game with Brady and Gronk back.  Remove that anomaly due to circumstance, and Bills were 26th in defense across the other 15 games played.  Just an awful defensive unit.  

 

So its understandable a new HC coming in saw the deficiencies on defense, knew his GM was headed out the door, and decided to wait until the following year to see what they wanted to do at QB.  Tyrod, for all his faults, still made the pro bowl 2 of his 3 seasons here, all of which were his only seasons as a starter in the NFL. Even if he knew Tyrod wasn't the long term answer, he knew at least he could hold the position until they went and got their guy in the draft.  

[ddaryl]

You can hear it from the players themselves when they are interviewed. They are a very tight knit group. You hear it from ex-players who try to come back. 

Winning has a lot to do with it, and winning requires talent, but to get the talent to next level requires more than X's and O's, it requires a team. 

A team can be a mere technical term, a group of people joining together to achieve a common goal. Team can also mean family, and like most of us we would go to battle a little harder for our family. By all this I mean, being close with your teammates and willing to work harder because you don't want to let your family down.

Looking at the Sabres this year you can see that happening. It took some really hard decisions but we "technically" traded away a few of our best players, yet this year the Sabres won 32 games, most since 2018, when they won 33. Its not Earth Shattering, but most of those 32 wins happened during the 2nd half of the season and many of them against real good playoff competition.

There has been a huge dynamic change in the Sabres mental state and desire to win. They are a team with that extra drive, A team that is becoming a family IMO.

The Bills are riding that wave. That was the culture change needed.
 

[Nextmanup]

56 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

Yeah, I think McD has read all the leadership books known to man.

That's common among coaches; largely because a lot of them don't really have proper educations of their own, so they read books on the topic.

 

I had to laugh a year or so ago when McDermott started talking about the "Kaizen" work model--which is a trite thing that was bashed around the business school community in the 1980s when the Japanese started taking over the auto industry.  

 

I wouldn't be surprised to hear him quote Sun Tzu's "Art of War" at some point.

 

 

[Shaw66]

7 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

That's common among coaches; largely because a lot of them don't really have proper educations of their own, so they read books on the topic.

 

I had to laugh a year or so ago when McDermott started talking about the "Kaizen" work model--which is a trite thing that was bashed around the business school community in the 1980s when the Japanese started taking over the auto industry.  

 

I wouldn't be surprised to hear him quote Sun Tzu's "Art of War" at some point.

 

 

Why did it make you laugh?   It's admirable that he studies the ideas of creative people, not funny.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

31 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

That's common among coaches; largely because a lot of them don't really have proper educations of their own, so they read books on the topic.

 

I had to laugh a year or so ago when McDermott started talking about the "Kaizen" work model--which is a trite thing that was bashed around the business school community in the 1980s when the Japanese started taking over the auto industry.  

 

I wouldn't be surprised to hear him quote Sun Tzu's "Art of War" at some point.

 

 

Kaizen is part of Lean or the Toyota Management System.  It is alive and well in many organizations far beyond auto industry.  

[Shaw66]

2 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Kaizen is part of Lean or the Toyota Management System.  It is alive and well in many organizations far beyond auto industry.  

Hardly a "trite thing" "bashed around business schools."

[Doc Brown]

1 hour ago, Magox said:

 

Bill, with all due respect, they did not luck into Josh Allen.  Without trading their first rounder to KC and trading other players that were popular with some of the fanbase accumulating draft capital, they would have never have landed Josh Allen.   The Bills purposely traded away that pick among other players targeting their franchise QB for 2018 which by all accounts was supposed to be a strong year for QB's.  

 

The Bills did what they did with a purpose and at the end of the day, the trade to KC most likely ended up being the right decision as they ended up getting a foundational defensive piece at a very important position and an elite franchise QB.

 

 

We lucked into the Browns, Jets, and Broncos passing on him.  A lot of groupthink went into that qb class.  I was just as guilty.

[Magox]

1 minute ago, Doc Brown said:

We lucked into the Browns, Jets, and Broncos passing on him.  A lot of groupthink went into that qb class.  I was just as guilty.

 

Ok, then by that logic the Chiefs lucked into drafting Mahomes.  You can make that argument for just about every single QB ever drafted except for any chose as the #1 overall selection.

 

The Bills purposely traded back so that they would have draft capital for 2018, this was not luck this was by design.  They traded up to #7 because they wanted one of the top QB's in that draft class, and by all accounts Josh Allen was someone that they were in love with since 2017.

 

This was by design.

[sherpa]

The secret to "team building" is the same in other relationships.

If you get to the point that supporting other people is more enjoyable and desirable than simply promoting your own interests, it magnifies your talent.

 

Teams that get to that point get it. 

Teams that have 53 players that view themselves as independent contractors, seeking the highest bidder, as the draft process and agents promote,  don't.

I think that's where the Dolphins are.

 

It's normal human nature.

It's how the US military and successful marriages  work.

 

 

 

[Mark Long Beach]

1 hour ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Phil Jackson is a complete fraud. He had the best player of all time in Chicago and in LA he had 2 of the top 10 best players of all time. He didn't do anything in NY when he didn't have a superstar.  

 

It takes far more win than just a coach.  The NY Knicks were and are a disaster of an organization with owner Dolan as head clown number 1.   There's a long list of failures there, including some by Phil himself.   But claiming the single most NBA championship winning individual (Including two as a NY Knick player!) is a fraud because he couldn't win with Nolan's Knicks is flat out bonkers.