Is there any circumstances you would move on from McDermott after 2022?

[nedboy7]

Look at where this team is and people still can’t enjoy it. They are addicted to suffering. Go read some Buddhist books. 

[Nihilarian]

Some of you need to realize that Kansas City head coach Andy Reid has been an NFL HC since 1999! Through 1999-2012 with Philly. 2013 though 2022 with Kansas City.

 

Yea that's right, 23 years. 14 seasons with Philly, 9 with Kansas.  SB 2x with KC one win, one loss. One SB appearance and loss with the eagles and it took 6 seasons to get there.

Reid W/L record as an NFL HC 23 years. Philly .583-KC .710-Total .633

 

McD 5 seasons as NFL HC, W/L 49/32 .605

It's only going to get better as the Buffalo Bills NOW have one of the very best franchise QB's in the NFL! Great offense, good defense. 

 

One season with Tyrod Taylor at QB and the rest with developing a rookie in 2018. Simply look at the success of this team recently...my lord! In his 5 seasons as HC the Buffalo defense has been near top 5 three times.

 

McD and Beane inherited a freaking mess of a team that was in cap hell with not so much talent. Wrex Ryan had wrecked that #1 defense. 

 

 

Yea, I'm not happy about that 13 seconds either as Buffalo had a 92%+ chance of winning that game at the kick off. They screwed it up for sure. I'm not happy about that Jaguars game either with a 6-9 loss to the worst team in the NFL. The Colts game still irritates me, 264 yards, 4 TDs on the ground. Buffalo could have had home field and a home playoff game last season. 

 

Let's hope that things don't repeat and the coaching staff learned from the mistakes. 

 

Bills fans should be embracing a very bright future for this franchise... that is staying in Buffalo!

 

 

[newcam2012]

3 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

Coaches were absolutely to blame for the Houston loss. Offensively the playcalling was absurd (46 passes, with the lion’s share of targets going to Duke Williams🤦‍♂️) and defensively they got beat on poor blitzes in game-deciding spots as McDermott and Frazier are wont to do.

Happen to agree with you. The coaching in the 2nd half of the game was very poor. They played to lose and not win, terrible adjustments, and looked like a deer in headlights. Thus far, I think it's pretty clear that Coach McD and the rest of the coaching staff has fallen short in playoff time. I think many of us including myself got used to the Bills losing ways. Therefore, we have been satisfied with making the playoffs and winning one playoff game. The hey it's better than it was. We are making the playoffs. That just doesn't cut it when you have the best QB in the league on your team. The coaching staff absolutely ripped the fans and players hearts out in 13 seconds. Truthfully, the media and most fans treated the coaching staff with kid gloves. In reality, they should have been lambasted for a long duration. I get the wait till next year thoughts. Haven't we heard that over and over and over?  Maybe Jerry Sulivan should ask coach how can you do a better job coaching down the stretch in a crucial playoff game? What positive changes can be made? What did you learn from your collasal 13 second disaster? Nope nope nope...Instead, let's wait til next year...Ground hog day!

Edited May 24, 2022 by newcam2012

[FireChans]

8 hours ago, FilthyBeast said:

 

This thread comes from the following fact based information:

 

- in his first 5 years here McDermott is 3-4 in the playoffs including 0-4 on the road (for perspective Zac Taylor took the Bengals to the SB in his first postseason appearance including 2-0 on the road in the AFC playoffs)

- His overall record during the regular season against teams with a winning record/playoff teams is well below .500

- JA17 and Gabe Davis had historic performances in the playoffs and it was still squandered because of poor coaching and the 13 seconds debacle.

- Defensive scheme has proven over and over it's not effective against physical teams and/or teams with top QB's/offenses despite misleading overall rankings like last year. Last year we faced one of the worst schedules ever in terms of opposing QB's and still only managed 11 wins.

 

But again, the main talking point here is whether or not McDermott is just a good head coach vs. a championship HC and the latter is where many including myself have serious doubts based largely on the items listed above.

 

Also in regards to the Ravens last year, they were ravaged by injury and Harbaugh a proven SB winning HC so why would anybody question what happened there. Speaking of injuries, what is very telling about McD is that his teams have been relatively healthy most years but have still not been able to reach a championship/win one. So the evidence is there that this teams success is more about talent vs actual coaching.

 

I wish McD well and hope this season reaches lofty expectations, but deep down I'd be lying if I didn't have serious concerns about an 'owned and exposed' type of year especially given the schedule difficulty on paper and types of QBs/teams were playing this year. Division itself is also going to be brutal compared to last year.

For perspective, Zac Taylor is 16-32-1 in the regular season. Please tell me his record against playoff teams in the regular season lmao.

 

Your takes stink. 

[FireChans]

43 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

Happen to agree with you. The coaching in the 2nd half of the game was very poor. They played to lose and not win, terrible adjustments, and looked like a deer in headlights. Thus far, I think it's pretty clear that Coach McD and the rest of the coaching staff has fallen short in playoff time. I think many of us including myself got used to the Bills losing ways. Therefore, we have been satisfied with making the playoffs and winning one playoff game. The hey it's better than it was. We are making the playoffs. That just doesn't cut it when you have the best QB in the league on your team. The coaching staff absolutely ripped the fans and players hearts out in 13 seconds. Truthfully, the media and most fans treated the coaching staff with kid gloves. In reality, they should have been lambasted for a long duration. I get the wait till next year thoughts. Haven't we heard that over and over and over?  Maybe Jerry Sulivan should ask coach how can you do a better job coaching down the stretch in a crucial playoff game? What positive changes can be made? What did you learn from your collasal 13 second disaster? Nope nope nope...Instead, let's wait til next year...Ground hog day!

You people are actually insane. How many times did Drew Brees and Peyton Manning go one and done? Were Dungy and Payton on the hot seat? How many years has Harbaugh done it? How many years has Pete Carroll? Or Andy Reid?

 

Bills fans are the new Pats fans. They won 6 Superbowls and went to 9 and Pats fans were still coming out of the woodwork saying Bill was too old, Brady was too old, and they need to move on just because they lost in the second round or the AFCCG. 
 

I never thought our fan base would be that ridiculous but here we are.

[John from Riverside]

34 minutes ago, FireChans said:

You people are actually insane. How many times did Drew Brees and Peyton Manning go one and done? Were Dungy and Payton on the hot seat? How many years has Harbaugh done it? How many years has Pete Carroll? Or Andy Reid?

 

Bills fans are the new Pats fans. They won 6 Superbowls and went to 9 and Pats fans were still coming out of the woodwork saying Bill was too old, Brady was too old, and they need to move on just because they lost in the second round or the AFCCG. 
 

I never thought our fan base would be that ridiculous but here we are.

To be fair it’s just a couple of loud cherpers that are saying this

[newcam2012]

1 hour ago, FireChans said:

You people are actually insane. How many times did Drew Brees and Peyton Manning go one and done? Were Dungy and Payton on the hot seat? How many years has Harbaugh done it? How many years has Pete Carroll? Or Andy Reid?

 

Bills fans are the new Pats fans. They won 6 Superbowls and went to 9 and Pats fans were still coming out of the woodwork saying Bill was too old, Brady was too old, and they need to move on just because they lost in the second round or the AFCCG. 
 

I never thought our fan base would be that ridiculous but here we are.

With respect, your comparisons actually embolden my argument. All those coaches have at least one ring. The Bills under McD haven't even sniffed a super bowl appearance yet win one. Coach McD has been pretty poor in the playoffs. Jacksonville, Houston, Indy, and KC twice off the top of my head. His biggest playoff feat to date is losing the KC playoff game in 13 seconds. Like it or not, that's pretty much undeniable. 

 

I'm not saying he's on the hot seat. I'm saying he's  disappointed Bills fans in the playoffs. The 13 second wound is still fresh and truthfully the  healing begins with a Lombardi Trophy. Until that happens, the criticism of Coach McD is warranted. I don't know how that is seen as insane. Imho, he has a 2 to 3 year window to bring the Lombardi Trophy to Buffalo. 

Edited May 24, 2022 by newcam2012

[Rochesterfan]

3 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

With respect, your comparisons actually embolden my argument. All those coaches have at least one ring. The Bills under McD haven't even sniffed a super bowl appearance yet win one. Coach McD has been pretty poor in the playoffs. Jacksonville, Houston, Indy, and KC twice off the top of my head. His biggest playoff feat to date is losing the KC playoff game in 13 seconds. Like it or not, that's pretty much undeniable. 

 

I'm not saying he's on the hot seat. I'm saying he's  disappointed Bills fans in the playoffs. The 13 second wound is still fresh and truthfully the  healing begins with a Lombardi Trophy. Until that happens, the criticism of Coach McD is warranted. I don't know how that is seen as insane. Imho, he has a 2 to 3 year window to bring the Lombardi Trophy to Buffalo. 

 

My God - it just gets worse and worse.

 

You sit here and cry about McD not winning a Super Bowl in year 5 (or even sniffing one 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️ - yeah not one AFC championship game or anything), but then praise Dungy who won a SB in year 11.  Prior to the SB - he was 5-8 in the playoffs and overall 9-10 in the playoffs even with a 4-0 in the SB year.  
 

The discussion you try to make is just terrible.  McD has done more than Dungy ever did at this point.  Yep Payton won his SB in year 4, but his overall record was 9-8 in the playoffs with the 3-0 in his SB year.  The rest of the time he was 6-8 even with a HOF QB throwing for record setting numbers year over year.

 

I really do not get you argument - like Reid and Dungy and many others - McD should get time as long as he keeps winning and they keep taking shots at the title.  There are a very limited number of SB winning coaches in the NFL and many of them took years to get the first SB.  None of the guys you mentioned won the SB until they did, but they were capable- just as McD is capable.  
 

In the end - it is whatever because the Pegula’s are not letting this guy go, but man there are just some people that miss the overall forest for the 13 second tree.  They forget the play calling on the 30 seconds to get the Bills the lead - like that was only Josh, but Wallace admitting he missed a call was all on coaching.

 

Again I need more of these - 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️
 

 

 

 

 

[GunnerBill]

Personally I think the point when this becomes a real question pending a collapse before then is after the 2026 season. At that stage Josh would have just played his age 30 season and his guaranteed money will have run out (with two years to go on his deal). That is the point when he comes up for a renegotiation. 

 

If at that point we haven't got over the hump you think about whether a change makes sense. But in doing that you have to think about what Josh wants too. Is he frustrated or is he still totally aligned with Beane and McDermott? You have to factor that in. 

[Greg S]

7 hours ago, FireChans said:

You people are actually insane. How many times did Drew Brees and Peyton Manning go one and done? Were Dungy and Payton on the hot seat? How many years has Harbaugh done it? How many years has Pete Carroll? Or Andy Reid?

 

Bills fans are the new Pats fans. They won 6 Superbowls and went to 9 and Pats fans were still coming out of the woodwork saying Bill was too old, Brady was too old, and they need to move on just because they lost in the second round or the AFCCG. 
 

I never thought our fan base would be that ridiculous but here we are.

 

I wish. The Bills give me 6 Super Bowl championships hell just give me one and they can go 0-17 struggling for 5 straight seasons and you wouldn't hear a peep out of me complaining. I don't think McDermott is in danger of getting fired but the Von Miller move was a final piece type of move. Not a move to just getter better and improve the team but a move to put them over the top and win a Super Bowl. Media both local and national as well as the fans have the highest of expectations. They fail to at least make the Super Bowl and the calls for McDermott's head will grow very loud next offseason. That is one thing I am sure of. 

[Nihilarian]

Look what Brandon Beane and McD have built in Buffalo...an awesome championship team!! A team that has been in the playoffs 4 of the 5 last seasons. This after not seeing the playoffs since 1999. In 2020 the Buffalo Bills won 2 playoff games against the Colts, Ravens. 

 

So, you let go McD for whatever reason. Who do you plan to replace him with? What if Beane were to follow him to wherever he ends up? What then? 

 

 

On a different note: Let's look at the Dallas Cowboys for an example. Dallas HC Jimmy Johnson built the Cowboys into super bowl contender after HC Tom Landry went 3-13 in 1988. Yes, there were some growing pains for a few seasons for the Boys, but by 1992-1993 the Cowboys had won 2x SB's (at the Bills expense)

 

The teams owner, Jerry Jones got it into his head that "he" was the one who built those great teams and he and HC Johnson had a falling out. Yes, that Cowboys team with Aikman at QB was good enough to win 2x more SBs with Barry Switzer at HC. 

 

Now, look what's happened to that franchise since, 6 head coaches, 26 seasons, 11 playoff appearances and NOT ONE playoff win in all that time. 

 

 

 

 

[FireChans]

5 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

With respect, your comparisons actually embolden my argument. All those coaches have at least one ring. The Bills under McD haven't even sniffed a super bowl appearance yet win one. Coach McD has been pretty poor in the playoffs. Jacksonville, Houston, Indy, and KC twice off the top of my head. His biggest playoff feat to date is losing the KC playoff game in 13 seconds. Like it or not, that's pretty much undeniable. 

 

I'm not saying he's on the hot seat. I'm saying he's  disappointed Bills fans in the playoffs. The 13 second wound is still fresh and truthfully the  healing begins with a Lombardi Trophy. Until that happens, the criticism of Coach McD is warranted. I don't know how that is seen as insane. Imho, he has a 2 to 3 year window to bring the Lombardi Trophy to Buffalo. 

They didn’t win their “one ring” year 1 lol.

 

Sean Payton won 1 ring with a HoF QB for 13 years. And we are mad McD hasn’t won a ring in 2 years with great QB play. GTFOH. 

14 minutes ago, Greg S said:

 

I wish. The Bills give me 6 Super Bowl championships hell just give me one and they can go 0-17 struggling for 5 straight seasons and you wouldn't hear a peep out of me complaining. I don't think McDermott is in danger of getting fired but the Von Miller move was a final piece type of move. Not a move to just getter better and improve the team but a move to put them over the top and win a Super Bowl. Media both local and national as well as the fans have the highest of expectations. They fail to at least make the Super Bowl and the calls for McDermott's head will grow very loud next offseason. That is one thing I am sure of. 

Nah we win 6 Super Bowls and you’ll want McD fired for losing the seventh. Because you’re ridiculous. 

[Greg S]

3 minutes ago, FireChans said:

They didn’t win their “one ring” year 1 lol.

 

Sean Payton won 1 ring with a HoF QB for 13 years. And we are mad McD hasn’t won a ring in 2 years with great QB play. GTFOH. 

Nah we win 6 Super Bowls and you’ll want McD fired for losing the seventh. Because you’re ridiculous. 

 

Not me. Listen I can deal with a rebuild if it's being done right. I am an Islanders fan and for the longest time they were a POS franchise. The fish stick jerseys, horrible ownership, garbage GM's and HC's and their seasons being over by Thanksgiving. So I have dealt with losing from them and the Bills. If the Bills win a Super Bowl and they eventually have to rebuild then I can deal with it. No problem. Pats fans who are complaining now are immature crybaby's after what that franchise gave them for 20 years. 

[BigBuff423]

McDermott is the best coach this franchise has seen since Levy, and his winning seasons prove it. Beane has done an amazing job of turning the roster over and generating real depth at every position but McDermott owns the wins and losses. To that end, I can't imagine a scenario where McDermott is so bad that he works himself out of a job at the Buffalo Bills.

 

That's not to say that he will / won't win enough games to make the playoffs, let alone win the Super Bowl. But, when I think of McDermott I'm reminded of his mentor, Andy Reid. Reid was essentially run out of Philly only to build KC from the ground up and help build that team into what it is today, just a few years removed from a Super Bowl title. Philly has gone on to win a Super Bowl, only years after Reid left and was a bit of a unique year, as shown by the years before and certainly after their title. Reid has been consistent. 

 

Many younger fans forget how abysmal it was to watch the Bills and basically expect to lose. Winning week after week and making the playoffs year after year, is amazing. Everybody wants the title. But in terms of being fun to watch, to sincerely believe there isn't a single team that is just "better" but that every team in the league is legitimately either ONLY as good as the Bills or worse, is the kind of joy we haven't seen in these Bills for 30+ years. So, I'll take McDermott for the foreseeable future, unless or until he shows me that he can't produce a consistent winning team for a couple years. Because I just know even great teams have bad years and I've witnessed the outcome of youthful frustration that lead to decades of poor play and miserable football. I also truly believe McDermott has both the drive and the system to make things successful and it's just a matter of time, especially with Brandon Beane and his team putting the players in McDermott's pocket. 

[Greg S]

12 minutes ago, BigBuff423 said:

McDermott is the best coach this franchise has seen since Levy, and his winning seasons prove it. Beane has done an amazing job of turning the roster over and generating real depth at every position but McDermott owns the wins and losses. To that end, I can't imagine a scenario where McDermott is so bad that he works himself out of a job at the Buffalo Bills.

 

That's not to say that he will / won't win enough games to make the playoffs, let alone win the Super Bowl. But, when I think of McDermott I'm reminded of his mentor, Andy Reid. Reid was essentially run out of Philly only to build KC from the ground up and help build that team into what it is today, just a few years removed from a Super Bowl title. Philly has gone on to win a Super Bowl, only years after Reid left and was a bit of a unique year, as shown by the years before and certainly after their title. Reid has been consistent. 

 

Many younger fans forget how abysmal it was to watch the Bills and basically expect to lose. Winning week after week and making the playoffs year after year, is amazing. Everybody wants the title. But in terms of being fun to watch, to sincerely believe there isn't a single team that is just "better" but that every team in the league is legitimately either ONLY as good as the Bills or worse, is the kind of joy we haven't seen in these Bills for 30+ years. So, I'll take McDermott for the foreseeable future, unless or until he shows me that he can't produce a consistent winning team for a couple years. Because I just know even great teams have bad years and I've witnessed the outcome of youthful frustration that lead to decades of poor play and miserable football. I also truly believe McDermott has both the drive and the system to make things successful and it's just a matter of time, especially with Brandon Beane and his team putting the players in McDermott's pocket. 

 

For those of us who remember 1984 and 1985 then that was some of the worst times to be a fan of this team. A good crowd back then was 45,000 - 50,000 and that was when Rich Stadium held 80,020. Some of those late season crowds looked like a Sabres crowd.

[FilthyBeast]

11 hours ago, FireChans said:

For perspective, Zac Taylor is 16-32-1 in the regular season. Please tell me his record against playoff teams in the regular season lmao.

 

Your takes stink. 

 

I'm not debating regular season record here. And if regular season record is all that mattered you could obviously put McD in Canton as we speak.

 

What is relevant is that it took 3 years for Taylor to rebuild one of the worst organizations in the NFL and get them back to a SB including the aforementioned road playoff wins against the #1 and #2 seeds in the conference last year.

 

You can disagree with my takes all you like just because I don't pound Bills flavored koolaid and objective and nonbiased in my takes which again are based in factual relevance.

18 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

There is zero chance the Bills are "owned and exposed" this season. 

 

 

 

There's always the possibility for a bad season for a number of reasons but I agree it's more unlikely than likely, just not zero chance so to speak.

 

Again main reason in this belief would be McDermott collapsing under the immense pressure to deliver a championship and losing the lockerroom  if the season gets off the rails early especially given how last season ended.

[Saxum]

3 hours ago, Greg S said:

They fail to at least make the Super Bowl and the calls for McDermott's head will grow very loud next offseason. That is one thing I am sure of. 

 

Who cares about the characters from Alice in Wonderland?

 

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, FilthyBeast said:

 

Again main reason in this belief would be McDermott collapsing under the immense pressure to deliver a championship and losing the lockerroom  if the season gets off the rails early especially given how last season ended.

 

If you think that is possible I understand your takes in this thread. But you don't understand who Sean McDermott is. 

[newcam2012]

4 hours ago, BigBuff423 said:

McDermott is the best coach this franchise has seen since Levy, and his winning seasons prove it. Beane has done an amazing job of turning the roster over and generating real depth at every position but McDermott owns the wins and losses. To that end, I can't imagine a scenario where McDermott is so bad that he works himself out of a job at the Buffalo Bills.

 

That's not to say that he will / won't win enough games to make the playoffs, let alone win the Super Bowl. But, when I think of McDermott I'm reminded of his mentor, Andy Reid. Reid was essentially run out of Philly only to build KC from the ground up and help build that team into what it is today, just a few years removed from a Super Bowl title. Philly has gone on to win a Super Bowl, only years after Reid left and was a bit of a unique year, as shown by the years before and certainly after their title. Reid has been consistent. 

 

Many younger fans forget how abysmal it was to watch the Bills and basically expect to lose. Winning week after week and making the playoffs year after year, is amazing. Everybody wants the title. But in terms of being fun to watch, to sincerely believe there isn't a single team that is just "better" but that every team in the league is legitimately either ONLY as good as the Bills or worse, is the kind of joy we haven't seen in these Bills for 30+ years. So, I'll take McDermott for the foreseeable future, unless or until he shows me that he can't produce a consistent winning team for a couple years. Because I just know even great teams have bad years and I've witnessed the outcome of youthful frustration that lead to decades of poor play and miserable football. I also truly believe McDermott has both the drive and the system to make things successful and it's just a matter of time, especially with Brandon Beane and his team putting the players in McDermott's pocket. 

Coach McD is no doubt an excellent coach. I'm not here advocating his dismissal. I'm just saying thus far in the playoffs he has fallen short. Last years playoff ending from a coaching perspective is as bad as it gets. One for the history books that will be thrown in our faces for years to come. Right up there with the Tennessee miracle.

 

Winning in the regular season is vastly different than winning against quality playoff teams. The Bills future looks brighter than ever so long has Allen stays healthy. Don't get me wrong, its fun to watch and win regular season games, win a division, and a playoff game. However, the Bills players and coaches must and should do more. Time will tell if Coach McD chokes out another playoff game (sorry no other way to put it) or can get over the hump. Currently, he is in the history books for 13 seconds of epic failure. A super bowl win will surely help us fans to move on.  Coach McD has no excuses to bring one home in the next few years. You guys can compare him to every coach out there. Several here have made valid points. The fact remains Coach McD continues to chase the coveted Lombardi Trophy. The Bills trophy case is empty and many believe last year was the year Buffalo players should have hoisted it.  No doubt it was an opportunity squandered by the Bills coaching staff. In many ways, it's hard to forgive and forget how they ripped our hearts out. Personally, I can't look at Coach McD in the same light. Doesn't mean he's not a great coach, doesn't  deserve a second chance, or can't lead the Bills to team to the Super Bowl. The 13 seconds plays like a broken record over and over. Perhaps it's my passion or immaturity or both. 

 

Please football Gods the Bills fans deserve a super bowl win...

[FilthyBeast]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

If you think that is possible I understand your takes in this thread. But you don't understand who Sean McDermott is. 

 

I do understand who he is but remember this team was teetering on the brink last year going 3-5 over a 2 month stretch and sitting at 7-6 before lucking out playing the Panthers, Jets, Falcons and Pats team (who had peaked early december) to close the season and then the same Pats team again in the first round of the playoffs.

 

Again, I don't believe McDermott is a horrible coach and he apparently has great leadership qualities among other strong traits. But is it enough to say he should be the coach in the next 3 -5 years even if he never gets to a SB or wins one? No pro sports owner is going to hang on to a coach like that unless they simply have no interest in winning a championship.

 

And another thing that is lost in this topic is Buffalo is now a desirable place with a franchise QB so coaches we probably had zero chance of landing in years past would make this their prime destination now should we need to upgrade.

 

Bottom line, I think we all hope that McDermott is THAT GUY, but as of right now he's not until proven otherwise.