leh-nerd skin-erd Posted May 31, 2022 Posted May 31, 2022 4 minutes ago, ChiGoose said: I'm just a man, typing on a message board, asking people to please read primary sources Actually, in this case, you're a man, typing on a message board, accusing another of "...blatant...intentional...misreading of the facts" because he views things differently than you do. You should take those issues up with Mueller or Barr, perhaps both.
ChiGoose Posted May 31, 2022 Posted May 31, 2022 8 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: Actually, in this case, you're a man, typing on a message board, accusing another of "...blatant...intentional...misreading of the facts" because he views things differently than you do. You should take those issues up with Mueller or Barr, perhaps both. I would love to take up the issue with Barr for misleading the country with his summary. If you know how to get in touch with him, let me know. In the meantime, I would suggest reading the actual report, or even the executive summaries of the actual report written by the guy who wrote the report. The further away you get from the actual text, the easier it is for pundits and political actors to mislead.
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted May 31, 2022 Posted May 31, 2022 (edited) 19 minutes ago, ChiGoose said: I would love to take up the issue with Barr for misleading the country with his summary. If you know how to get in touch with him, let me know. In the meantime, I would suggest reading the actual report, or even the executive summaries of the actual report written by the guy who wrote the report. The further away you get from the actual text, the easier it is for pundits and political actors to mislead. The investigation was undertaken by political actors, the entire report prepared by political actors, Goose. If I want manufactured intrigue and dramatic retelling of events that conclude with a plot that implodes, I’ll rent a George Clooney movie. Edited May 31, 2022 by leh-nerd skin-erd
Doc Posted May 31, 2022 Posted May 31, 2022 Whatever you may believe the Mueller report found, the Democrat-controlled Congress has taken zero action against Trump, despite still desperately wanting to get him (via J6 now). Ask yourself why?
ChiGoose Posted May 31, 2022 Posted May 31, 2022 2 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: The investigation was undertaken by political actors, the entire report prepared by political actors, Goose. If I want manufactured intrigue and dramatic retelling of events that conclude with a plot that implodes from within, I’ll rent a George Clooney movie. O Brother Where Art Thou is an excellent movie. Though I suppose it's more Coen Brothers than it is a typical Clooney movie despite him playing the lead. Just now, Doc said: Whatever you may believe the Mueller report found, the Democrat-controlled Congress has taken zero action against Trump, despite still desperately wanting to get him (via J6 now). Ask yourself why? I've answered this several times: the Democratic Party and its leadership is profoundly incompetent. 1
BillsFanNC Posted May 31, 2022 Author Posted May 31, 2022 1 hour ago, ChiGoose said: I'm just a man, typing on a message board, asking people to please read primary sources Always a good idea. So then you've read the IG report on Crossfire Hurricane and FISA's that fueled it? https://oig.justice.gov/reports/review-four-fisa-applications-and-other-aspects-fbis-crossfire-hurricane-investigation
ChiGoose Posted May 31, 2022 Posted May 31, 2022 9 minutes ago, DRsGhost said: Always a good idea. So then you've read the IG report on Crossfire Hurricane and FISA's that fueled it? https://oig.justice.gov/reports/review-four-fisa-applications-and-other-aspects-fbis-crossfire-hurricane-investigation I have not. It's fairly long, but I'll read it if you read the Mueller Report. I'll even do a book report if you'd like.
BillsFanNC Posted May 31, 2022 Author Posted May 31, 2022 8 minutes ago, ChiGoose said: I have not. It's fairly long, but I'll read it if you read the Mueller Report. I'll even do a book report if you'd like. Just the executive summary will suffice. I've done that for the Mueller report already.
716er Posted May 31, 2022 Posted May 31, 2022 https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2022/05/john-durham-michael-sussman-verdict-not-guilty-russia-alfabank-trump-barr-fbi-clinton.html The trial went badly enough for Durham that his fans in the right-wing media were already laying the groundwork for acquittal by blaming the judge for allowing a juror who believed (but wasn’t sure) she had contributed to Clinton’s campaign. That excuse might have held some water in the event of a hung jury. But the jury’s unanimous and extremely speedy verdict suggests a single possible former Clinton-donating juror is not the reason. The reason is that Durham didn’t have the goods.
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted June 1, 2022 Posted June 1, 2022 1 hour ago, ChiGoose said: O Brother Where Art Thou is an excellent movie. Though I suppose it's more Coen Brothers than it is a typical Clooney movie despite him playing the lead. I’ve never seen it. Ever since I was a victim in the Fleecing of Solaris, I don’t trust. 1 hour ago, ChiGoose said: I've answered this several times: the Democratic Party and its leadership is profoundly incompetent. This perspective is the most interesting of the left talking points. It goes hand in hand with “Trump is so dumb they couldn’t get him. I think this goes to the brilliance of the Democrat plan—-they knew, likely after extensive study into what makes liberal voters tick, that tying Trump to Russia had little to do with actually proving he committed something approximating treasonous activity. It had virtually nothing to do with the outcome of the investigation…they relied on the cumulative arrogance of their core to walk away wondering how every single player was dumb or incompetent for not seeing what was so clear to them—solid evidence of nothing was obviously proof of everything. Credit to them, it was a solid plan. 2
ChiGoose Posted June 1, 2022 Posted June 1, 2022 1 hour ago, DRsGhost said: Just the executive summary will suffice. I've done that for the Mueller report already. Sounds good. I’ve got a bit on my plate at the moment but should be able to get back to you in a day or two. 56 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: I’ve never seen it. Ever since I was a victim in the Fleecing of Solaris, I don’t trust. This perspective is the most interesting of the left talking points. It goes hand in hand with “Trump is so dumb they couldn’t get him. I think this goes to the brilliance of the Democrat plan—-they knew, likely after extensive study into what makes liberal voters tick, that tying Trump to Russia had little to do with actually proving he committed something approximating treasonous activity. It had virtually nothing to do with the outcome of the investigation…they relied on the cumulative arrogance of their core to walk away wondering how every single player was dumb or incompetent for not seeing what was so clear to them—solid evidence of nothing was obviously proof of everything. Credit to them, it was a solid plan. Every Democrat I know wishes the party was as clever as you claim they are.
Doc Posted June 1, 2022 Posted June 1, 2022 1 hour ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: This perspective is the most interesting of the left talking points. It goes hand in hand with “Trump is so dumb they couldn’t get him. I think this goes to the brilliance of the Democrat plan—-they knew, likely after extensive study into what makes liberal voters tick, that tying Trump to Russia had little to do with actually proving he committed something approximating treasonous activity. It had virtually nothing to do with the outcome of the investigation…they relied on the cumulative arrogance of their core to walk away wondering how every single player was dumb or incompetent for not seeing what was so clear to them—solid evidence of nothing was obviously proof of everything. Credit to them, it was a solid plan. Tell a lie often enough... 1
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted June 1, 2022 Posted June 1, 2022 11 hours ago, ChiGoose said: Every Democrat I know wishes the party was as clever as you claim they are. Exactly.
ChiGoose Posted June 1, 2022 Posted June 1, 2022 At the request of @DRsGhost, I read the executive summary of the IG's report on Crossfire Hurricane. Here are my main takeaways: 1. The IG confirms that the FBI investigation into Russia was started when a friendly foreign government informed the FBI that Trump advisor George Papadopoulos told them that Russia had contacted him claiming to have damaging information on Clinton. Mueller stated that this is how it all started and the IG confirmed it. The FBI was not made aware of the Steele Dossier until weeks after the investigation started. The IG confirmed that the opening of the investigation was properly predicated and in compliance with FBI policies and guidelines. So can we finally stop with these claims that it was started by Clinton or the Steele Dossier? 2. The Carter Page FISA applications were incredibly flawed While the IG found that the applications for FISA surveillance on Carter Page were not politically motivated, it also found that they omitted relevant information that should have been disclosed to the judge. FBI policy requires that the factual claims in a warrant are vetted by investigators but the Crossfire Hurricane team did not run them by Steele's handler before submitting the application. The handler told the IG that they would not have agreed to some of the statements on the applications. Between the first application and the subsequent renewals, the IG found 17 separate issues with the applications. 3. Bruce Ohr's actions likely did not violate FBI policy, but those policies should be updated. Ohr was not required to inform senior staff or his supervisors that he was communicating with Steele but he probably should have anyway. Ohr was also not required to disclose that his wife had previously done contracting work with FusionGPS, but it would have been better if he did disclose this. In both instances, the IG suggests the FBI update its policies to close these potential gaps. 4. Bottom Line: Why do people think this vindicates Trump? After reading the report summary, I'm struggling to understand why Trump supporters find this to be some smoking gun that disproves the Mueller investigation. It actually confirms that the Steele Dossier was not the cause of the FBI's Russia investigation. The problems with Page's FISA applications are certainly serious but they do not invalidate what was discovered and most of the Mueller report deals with issues with the Trump campaign's contacts with Russia that do not involve Page. If you go so far as to throw out all of the Carter Page information, the Mueller report is still a damning document. It also makes me confused why we have this long thread about the Sussman trial as if it was going to unravel a big conspiracy. The IG confirms that the Russia investigation was ongoing prior to Sussman meeting with the FBI. So even if Sussman had been found guilty and even if everything in the Steele Dossier had been thrown into the garbage immediately when it was handed over to the FBI, we would still have heaps of evidence of Russian contact with the Trump campaign from the already ongoing investigation. From what I can tell, the IG report may lead to reforms with the FISA process, which would be great, but this report does almost nothing to invalidate the overall findings of the Russia investigation.
Gene Frenkle Posted June 1, 2022 Posted June 1, 2022 1 hour ago, ChiGoose said: 4. Bottom Line: Why do people think this vindicates Trump? Reading comprehension was never their strong suite and who has time to read these days? What are you, some kind of commie egghead?
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted June 1, 2022 Posted June 1, 2022 20 minutes ago, Gene Frenkle said: Reading comprehension was never their strong suite and who has time to read these days? What are you, some kind of commie egghead? It's this type of unmitigated arrogance that causes some people to hate the French, Frenks.
BillStime Posted June 1, 2022 Posted June 1, 2022 14 hours ago, Doc said: Tell a lie often enough... LOCK HER UP? WHO PAID FOR THE WALL? Speaking of that wall - Trump had four years to get it done and failed at that.
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