Racially motivated murder at Tops

[ArdmoreRyno]

11 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

I give you the basic ‘how to’ list and you come back with this?
 

People come to this country every single day from all over the world, and from every race, religion and creed, and in a state of abject ‘shirt  on their back’ poverty. Some will succeed and others will not. Following ‘my’ llist has NOTHING to do with their past. It’s all about what they choose to do today, tomorrow, and every day going forward. 

 

Amen. 

 

Most of the poorest counties in the country and mostly white counties. I live in a really poor county in Oklahoma... I have white and black friends that grew up DIRT poor. Some lived alone after the age of 13-14. Many of those have become way more successful that I have and I have three degrees and work as a professional counselor. One of my closest friends, a black man (and Don Cheadle's cousin), grew up with no parent (lived with Grandmother) went into the Navy... got a masters in clinical mental health (counseling) and is now one of the highest ranked officers in the state of Oklahoma (full bird). 

 

It's all about mindset and drive. Thriving for more.

[SoCal Deek]

3 minutes ago, ArdmoreRyno said:

 

Amen. 

 

Most of the poorest counties in the country and mostly white counties. I live in a really poor county in Oklahoma... I have white and black friends that grew up DIRT poor. Some lived alone after the age of 13-14. Many of those have become way more successful that I have and I have three degrees and work as a professional counselor. One of my closest friends, a black man (and Don Cheadle's cousin), grew up with no parent (lived with Grandmother) went into the Navy... got a masters in clinical mental health (counseling) and is now one of the highest ranked officers in the state of Oklahoma (full bird). 

 

It's all about mindset and drive. Thriving for more.

As you and I both know, money doesn’t correlate to happiness but Tibs is focused on poverty so I gave him the basic rules to live by if you don’t want to be poor in America. He doesn’t want to hear it. I’m sure it sounds like way too much work. 😉

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

1 hour ago, Tiberius said:

Yes! And why were black families hurt more by single parenthood? Racism. Black males not being allowed to have decent jobs sure hurts people. Having that in your history makes it part of the culture and things just do not change over night. Like I said, violence is a direct result of a group of people being segregated and impoverished. Let that happen for a long period of time and things will not turn out well 

 

History isn't all in the past 

 

 

Good for them, happy to hear. Many other blacks would disagree. 

I'm always interested in this thought process.  In the larger picture, I don't disagree with all your thoughts on this issue.   

 

One thing I always wonder though, so I'll ask directly.  With the tilting of the system toward white and away from black citizens, why do you think we have such a problem with white poverty 70+ years after the the beginning of the civil rights struggle, and 160 years after the Civil War?  

 

I understand the desire to look at percentages, it sort of isolates the humanity out of the equation, but the number is around 16,000,000 people, and that with--the argument goes anyways--the system clearly rigged in their favor. 

 

By sheer numbers, you're looking at the 5th largest state in the Union behind only Cali, Texas, Florida and NY.  

 

Why do you think these folks were left behind?  

[Tiberius]

3 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

I'm always interested in this thought process.  In the larger picture, I don't disagree with all your thoughts on this issue.   

 

One thing I always wonder though, so I'll ask directly.  With the tilting of the system toward white and away from black citizens, why do you think we have such a problem with white poverty 70+ years after the the beginning of the civil rights struggle, and 160 years after the Civil War?  

 

I understand the desire to look at percentages, it sort of isolates the humanity out of the equation, but the number is around 16,000,000 people, and that with--the argument goes anyways--the system clearly rigged in their favor. 

 

By sheer numbers, you're looking at the 5th largest state in the Union behind only Cali, Texas, Florida and NY.  

 

Why do you think these folks were left behind?  

Good question. So while black people were not allowed in the major economy or politics, leadership positions, etc, whites were. That doesn't mean everyone wins just because they are white. . We were/are a meritocracy. Before 1964, blacks were basically not allowed to compete. But that does not mean all whites will be winners. Even if blacks had been allowed to compete in the economy, there still would of been poor blacks, just like there are poor whites. 

 

Let me also add, racism hurt white people. It was a way to divide people, especially poor people. The Civil War is a good example. Caused by racism, but who really lost? 650,000 dead, mostly white 

 

39 minutes ago, ArdmoreRyno said:

 

Amen. 

 

Most of the poorest counties in the country and mostly white counties. I live in a really poor county in Oklahoma... I have white and black friends that grew up DIRT poor. Some lived alone after the age of 13-14. Many of those have become way more successful that I have and I have three degrees and work as a professional counselor. One of my closest friends, a black man (and Don Cheadle's cousin), grew up with no parent (lived with Grandmother) went into the Navy... got a masters in clinical mental health (counseling) and is now one of the highest ranked officers in the state of Oklahoma (full bird). 

 

It's all about mindset and drive. Thriving for more.

Not everyone wants to be poor. The thing is, whites  that wanted to do something about it, could. Look at what happened to the rising black middle class that existed in Tulsa after WW1. Their whole section of town was burned to the ground. 

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

14 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Good question. So while black people were not allowed in the major economy or politics, leadership positions, etc, whites were. That doesn't mean everyone wins just because they are white. . We were/are a meritocracy. Before 1964, blacks were basically not allowed to compete. But that does not mean all whites will be winners. Even if blacks had been allowed to compete in the economy, there still would of been poor blacks, just like there are poor whites. 

 

Let me also add, racism hurt white people. It was a way to divide people, especially poor people. The Civil War is a good example. Caused by racism, but who really lost? 650,000 dead, mostly white 

 

Not everyone wants to be poor. The thing is, whites  that wanted to do something about it, could. Look at what happened to the rising black middle class that existed in Tulsa after WW1. Their whole section of town was burned to the ground. 

If I’m reading you correctly, there would be some number, % or other, of….anticipated poverty regardless of skin tone?  In other words, the black poverty rate of roughly 8% was realized, it might make sense even given past injustices?  
 

I see this today and thought it was interesting, from someone with a different perspective than I have.  
 

https://unherd.com/2022/05/buffalo-and-the-myth-of-racist-america/

 

[Tiberius]

21 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

If I’m reading you correctly, there would be some number, % or other, of….anticipated poverty regardless of skin tone?  In other words, the black poverty rate of roughly 8% was realized, it might make sense even given past injustices?  
 

I see this today and thought it was interesting, from someone with a different perspective than I have.  
 

https://unherd.com/2022/05/buffalo-and-the-myth-of-racist-america/

 

his argument seems to be about racism today not being the main problem facing the black community. I'm not against that thinking to a large extent.. My argument is that black's problems today stem from the past. If your father had a good job you are more likely to get ahead yourself. But since blacks were just simply barred from good employment, the poverty persists. The violence the writer speaks of is, I would argue, also a symptom of oppression, with poverty also being a factor. I can't go into it too much, I have weed-wacking to do. 

[SoCal Deek]

27 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

his argument seems to be about racism today not being the main problem facing the black community. I'm not against that thinking to a large extent.. My argument is that black's problems today stem from the past. If your father had a good job you are more likely to get ahead yourself. But since blacks were just simply barred from good employment, the poverty persists. The violence the writer speaks of is, I would argue, also a symptom of oppression, with poverty also being a factor. I can't go into it too much, I have weed-wacking to do. 

This is definitely not true in my family.  In fact, the correlation is way, way off. Good jobs are had by those that study in school and work hard. Regardless of skin color.

[Tiberius]

1 hour ago, SoCal Deek said:

This is definitely not true in my family.  In fact, the correlation is way, way off. Good jobs are had by those that study in school and work hard. Regardless of skin color.

No, black people were blocked from the better jobs for the most part. 

[SoCal Deek]

11 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

No, black people were blocked from the better jobs for the most part. 

WERE….not ARE!!!!!

[Tiberius]

Just now, SoCal Deek said:

WERE….not ARE!!!!!

So you do agree Blacks had poverty enforced upon them, correct? 

 

But you also expect them to simply catch right up in a couple generation? That's silly. Hateful, really 

[ArdmoreRyno]

17 hours ago, Tiberius said:

 

 

Not everyone wants to be poor. The thing is, whites  that wanted to do something about it, could. Look at what happened to the rising black middle class that existed in Tulsa after WW1. Their whole section of town was burned to the ground. 

 

I'm very aware of what took place at Black Wall Street. I lived outside Tulsa for several years... what happened there was a f'ing injustice unlike anything seen outside slavery and the Democrats KKK. That said, the black middle class and upper class in Tulsa at the time were rising... and at a time just 50 years after slavery was abolished. There were black businesses men who had net worth of (todays numbers) in the MILLIONS living in Tulsa. How did that happen? Choice maybe? 

 

Of course, racism... segregation, etc. ALL plays into the struggles the black population. But in 2022? IMO, again, no. At some point, when do people pull themselves up? I work at a High School were we have all ranges on the socioeconomic scale... a high school who has around 60% minority (probably 45% black). There are COUNTLESS kids who went on to be doctors, lawyers, nurses, business people, etc. VERY poor white, black and Hispanic kids who succeed. Very wealthy kids who fail. 

 

In 2022 it's a CHOICE. Sure, there are always environmental factors but you ultimately made a decision to go one way or the other. Again, Dr. Ben Carson is a GREAT example. The guy was on the wrong track as a young kid... but made a different choice. It's NO different from a upper middle class or wealthy white kid who decides to make bad choices and ends up poor or worse. I see it all the time. 

[Tiberius]

46 minutes ago, ArdmoreRyno said:

 

I'm very aware of what took place at Black Wall Street. I lived outside Tulsa for several years... what happened there was a f'ing injustice unlike anything seen outside slavery and the Democrats KKK. That said, the black middle class and upper class in Tulsa at the time were rising... and at a time just 50 years after slavery was abolished. There were black businesses men who had net worth of (todays numbers) in the MILLIONS living in Tulsa. How did that happen? Choice maybe? 

 

Of course, racism... segregation, etc. ALL plays into the struggles the black population. But in 2022? IMO, again, no. At some point, when do people pull themselves up? I work at a High School were we have all ranges on the socioeconomic scale... a high school who has around 60% minority (probably 45% black). There are COUNTLESS kids who went on to be doctors, lawyers, nurses, business people, etc. VERY poor white, black and Hispanic kids who succeed. Very wealthy kids who fail. 

 

In 2022 it's a CHOICE. Sure, there are always environmental factors but you ultimately made a decision to go one way or the other. Again, Dr. Ben Carson is a GREAT example. The guy was on the wrong track as a young kid... but made a different choice. It's NO different from a upper middle class or wealthy white kid who decides to make bad choices and ends up poor or worse. I see it all the time. 

Most poor people stay poor and most rich people stay rich. Blacks had a racist nation determined to keep them poor and it worked. To simply expect them to quickly overcome that is unrealistic. Hopefully it will change. But look at the poor whites in Appalachia, they have not moved out of poverty, either. 

[ArdmoreRyno]

21 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Most poor people stay poor and most rich people stay rich. Blacks had a racist nation determined to keep them poor and it worked. To simply expect them to quickly overcome that is unrealistic. Hopefully it will change. But look at the poor whites in Appalachia, they have not moved out of poverty, either. 

 

Soooo.... what's the timeline of overcoming those injustices? 50 years? 100? 400? 

 

At some point you stop the excuses. 

[Tiberius]

30 minutes ago, ArdmoreRyno said:

 

Soooo.... what's the timeline of overcoming those injustices? 50 years? 100? 400? 

 

At some point you stop the excuses. 

I have no idea. I was just stating a fact, not an excuse. 

[Westside]

21 hours ago, ArdmoreRyno said:

 

WAS it a big deal? Absolutely. Will it, unfortunately always be here (everywhere in the world)? Yes... it will. 

 

Is that the reason idiots are shooting each other in the streets? No. 

 

Socioeconomics due to a direct result of single parent homes is the reason IMO (I have a sociology/criminal justice undergrad degree, clinical mental health masters). There is a victim mentality across the board in all walks of life. No one should tell someone else, based on race... ethnicity... sex.... etc... that they are victims and that they don't have a shot in life. It's bogus in 2022. 

Tibs definitely has a victim mentality. All his problems are because of other people. 

[Tiberius]

16 minutes ago, Westside said:

Tibs definitely has a victim mentality. All his problems are because of other people. 

The stink bomb says! 

 

I find it funny the left wing posters generally focus on social events at large, while right wing posters generally try and personalize stuff. 

 

[ArdmoreRyno]

11 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

The stink bomb says! 

 

I find it funny the left wing posters generally focus on social events at large, while right wing posters generally try and personalize stuff. 

 

 

Like burning down sections of neighborhoods? Destruction of property? Looting? 

[Tiberius]

11 minutes ago, ArdmoreRyno said:

 

Like burning down sections of neighborhoods? Destruction of property? Looting? 

I meant on PPP 

[ArdmoreRyno]

9 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

I meant on PPP 

 

My bad.

[SoCal Deek]

18 hours ago, Tiberius said:

So you do agree Blacks had poverty enforced upon them, correct? 

 

But you also expect them to simply catch right up in a couple generation? That's silly. Hateful, really 

I was simply using your words (tense)....not mine. And there is nothing hateful about anything that I've said. I guarantee that there are MILLIONS of people who have come to this country with virtually nothing in their pockets.  What did we do to 'catch them right up".....we provided a free society with opportunities that do not rely on their birthright or skin color.  I'm sorry if you don't like to hear it but nobody is going to be paying for this nonsensical narrative you're trying desperately to write.  Of course, in a free society, you are more than welcome to put your money in the plate when it comes by.