PSL Feedback For New Stadium

[corta765]

2 hours ago, Greg S said:

 

You are probably right. I guess the Pegula's marketing research figured they could sell PSL's fees and still sellout a 60K stadium with 50K season ticket holders in the WNY market.

 

PSLs have happened in other small markets including Pittsburgh and across the NFL I doubt you ever see a stadium again without them. If you take a look at the prices here I will not be surprised if we are similar:

https://steelers.strmarketplace.com/Seat-Licenses/Seat-License-Info.aspx

 

To fans saying it is a slap in the face or unfair, it is the way the NFL is now and they don't care as they make more money then ever and fans pay it. Some fans will say nope not for me, but when all is said and done plenty will even if they have to adjust the prices. My opinion doesn't matter on it in terms of it happening or not, my hope is the prices are reasonable enough that the vast majority of fans who have seasons can keep them and not lose where they have sat. 

37 minutes ago, ArtVandalay said:

PSLs are the biggest slap in the face to fans ever.  It's a way for owners to pass on construction costs to fans after the fans own tax dollars already financed a major portion of the stadium.

 

Now if the PSL allowed you to design your seat, select cushion, fabric, and accessories then we might be talking. I think many would be okay with a PSL if they could have a crushed velvet zubaz heated seat with a built in pez dispenser.

 

Buffalo for 20-30 years now has basically avoided much of added costs the NFL has added to fans attending games. Our time unfortunately is here where we will now see those costs and regardless of your opinion or mine they are here as long as we want the Bills. Just hope the PSL prices are reasonable and low and that is the extent of the new NFL costs we have to deal with.

[ArtVandalay]

9 minutes ago, corta765 said:

 

PSLs have happened in other small markets including Pittsburgh and across the NFL I doubt you ever see a stadium again without them. If you take a look at the prices here I will not be surprised if we are similar:

https://steelers.strmarketplace.com/Seat-Licenses/Seat-License-Info.aspx

 

To fans saying it is a slap in the face or unfair, it is the way the NFL is now and they don't care as they make more money then ever and fans pay it. Some fans will say nope not for me, but when all is said and done plenty will even if they have to adjust the prices. My opinion doesn't matter on it in terms of it happening or not, my hope is the prices are reasonable enough that the vast majority of fans who have seasons can keep them and not lose where they have sat. 

 

Buffalo for 20-30 years now has basically avoided much of added costs the NFL has added to fans attending games. Our time unfortunately is here where we will now see those costs and regardless of your opinion or mine they are here as long as we want the Bills. Just hope the PSL prices are reasonable and low and that is the extent of the new NFL costs we have to deal with.

Just because something somewhere else doesn't make it right. 

 

The Patriots are the winningest team is recent memory by far and they have not charged a PSL, so although some do it, the team with the most success in a rabid Boston market didn't. 

 

Approx 2/3 of the league does it and it is wrong. For stadiums already leveraging public funds it is ethically reprehensible. 

 

They are not popular in any other sport. Very small minority of MLB, NBA, or NHL teams have tried them. 

 

Considering the public funds for the stadium and years of support by the fan base through futility and poor venue this would be a major mis-step by ownership. 

[corta765]

2 minutes ago, ArtVandalay said:

Just because something somewhere else doesn't make it right. 

 

The Patriots are the winningest team is recent memory by far and they have not charged a PSL, so although some do it, the team with the most success in a rabid Boston market didn't. 

 

Approx 2/3 of the league does it and it is wrong. For stadiums already leveraging public funds it is ethically reprehensible. 

 

They are not popular in any other sport. Very small minority of MLB, NBA, or NHL teams have tried them. 

 

Considering the public funds for the stadium and years of support by the fan base through futility and poor venue this would be a major mis-step by ownership. 

That is incorrect, 20 of the 32 NFL teams do some version of PSL and no new stadium going back to 2004 has not opened without them:

https://www.wgrz.com/article/sports/nfl/future-of-the-bills/what-are-psls-personal-seat-license-and-what-does-that-mean-to-bills-fans-nfl-buffalo/71-aef57364-757f-4153-af79-2838d5112b7c

 

Again I prefaced the NFL is the major league that does them and it has proved quite lucrative. Again the ownership does not care about you they care about increased revenue as does the league. If the PSLs do not sell as well as they hope I guarantee they adjust the price model to one that does as other teams have done. Not saying I agree with any of this either, but it is the reality. 

[The Tomcat]

On 5/11/2022 at 5:59 PM, HardyBoy said:

 

I like the idea in concept, but lotteries are evil things that prey on the poor.

 

50/50 drawing in the stadium though sounds like a good idea, but 8 games a year for 10 years is 80 games to get $200m... you'd need to raise $2.5m per game! Oh and you had said $300m!

 

You'd need an actual lottery, which again are evil evil things...not against gambling, I'm against deluding people through intentional and targeted marketing, who only have $5 a week extra maybe, that they could win the lottery. That should go in the bank, not a lottery, where the heat from the cash would be more valuable than the ticket if they just lit their cash on fire. There are some cool banks that are doing cool things like that actually in terms of ethical lotteries.

 

/rant and yes I'm a blast at parties!

 

Also, I always put 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 on my lottery tickets...before you tell me I'm nuts, it's just as likely that comes up as any other combination. Stop playing the lottery people, it's a scam.

The thing about using numbers like that is other people have the same idea and you would end up splitting with more people.   Agreed the odds are the same but change up the numbers a little

[MJS]

3 hours ago, ArtVandalay said:

Just because something somewhere else doesn't make it right. 

 

The Patriots are the winningest team is recent memory by far and they have not charged a PSL, so although some do it, the team with the most success in a rabid Boston market didn't. 

 

Approx 2/3 of the league does it and it is wrong. For stadiums already leveraging public funds it is ethically reprehensible. 

 

They are not popular in any other sport. Very small minority of MLB, NBA, or NHL teams have tried them. 

 

Considering the public funds for the stadium and years of support by the fan base through futility and poor venue this would be a major mis-step by ownership. 

Then don't buy them. Problem solved.

[ArtVandalay]

3 hours ago, corta765 said:

That is incorrect, 20 of the 32 NFL teams do some version of PSL and no new stadium going back to 2004 has not opened without them:

https://www.wgrz.com/article/sports/nfl/future-of-the-bills/what-are-psls-personal-seat-license-and-what-does-that-mean-to-bills-fans-nfl-buffalo/71-aef57364-757f-4153-af79-2838d5112b7c

 

Again I prefaced the NFL is the major league that does them and it has proved quite lucrative. Again the ownership does not care about you they care about increased revenue as does the league. If the PSLs do not sell as well as they hope I guarantee they adjust the price model to one that does as other teams have done. Not saying I agree with any of this either, but it is the reality. 

You're not good at math, are you? I said about 2/3 of the league does PSL, you "corrected" me and said 20/32 LOL... 20/32=63%, close enough to 66%.

 

 

[ArtVandalay]

14 minutes ago, MJS said:

Then don't buy them. Problem solved.

I'm not going to.  

 

Hilarious how people defend this, especially with your tax dollars already funding the stadium. 

[MJS]

9 minutes ago, ArtVandalay said:

I'm not going to.  

 

Hilarious how people defend this, especially with your tax dollars already funding the stadium. 

Hilarious that you take your opinion as gospel.

 

It may bother you, but it doesn't bother everyone. Tons of people are going to buy these. Your opinion is not more valid than theirs.

[without a drought]

I was hoping they were more expensive. 

[Augie]

8 minutes ago, without a drought said:

I was hoping they were more expensive. 

 

I represent a different division of PSE, and I can make this possible for you! 

 

 

(That Nigerian Prince thing wasn’t fooling anyone any more….) 

[ArtVandalay]

4 hours ago, MJS said:

Hilarious that you take your opinion as gospel.

 

It may bother you, but it doesn't bother everyone. Tons of people are going to buy these. Your opinion is not more valid than theirs.

I really don't, but hey if you value my opinion as gospel I appreciate the complement, thank you, happy to hear that's his you view it.

 

Sure tons of people will buy them Captain Obvious, that doesn't make it right.  Those are two completely different conversations. 

 

If you can't comprehend the double dip concept behind taking your tax dollars, then also taking a PSL on top of it then I don't know what else to say.  Fork all your money over, lots of money to be made off people with that mind set.  Brand building is a powerful thing. 

 

It is funny you are so worked up about someone being opposed to PSLs and the double dip with your tax dollars. Like it's just so odd that upsets you lol, no need to be offended by it. 

[Ayjent]

On 5/16/2022 at 8:12 AM, corta765 said:

Washingtons destruction of their fanbase has nothing to do with the stadium. It starts and ends with their owner and about a billion other things he does wrong.

I live here in DC it’s the stadium and so much more but the main concept is that Snyder was all about exploiting a fan base rabid for their team to the point of destroying a lot of what was good.  People that had generations of passed down season tickets said screw this because it just was terrible experience at the game and the longest tenured fans felt mistreated in and out of the stadium.  The team not being great isn’t the problem, but the team just doesn’t provide anything for the next generation of fans.  I don’t want the Bills making any mistakes even close to that.  

[without a drought]

4 hours ago, Augie said:

 

I represent a different division of PSE, and I can make this possible for you! 

 

 

(That Nigerian Prince thing wasn’t fooling anyone any more….) 

You'll have to PM me for all my banking and credit card info. I'm not foolish enough to post that stuff here.

[corta765]

15 hours ago, ArtVandalay said:

You're not good at math, are you? I said about 2/3 of the league does PSL, you "corrected" me and said 20/32 LOL... 20/32=63%, close enough to 66%.

 

 

lol my bad I read that completely wrong.. it was a long day hahahaha

10 hours ago, Ayjent said:

I live here in DC it’s the stadium and so much more but the main concept is that Snyder was all about exploiting a fan base rabid for their team to the point of destroying a lot of what was good.  People that had generations of passed down season tickets said screw this because it just was terrible experience at the game and the longest tenured fans felt mistreated in and out of the stadium.  The team not being great isn’t the problem, but the team just doesn’t provide anything for the next generation of fans.  I don’t want the Bills making any mistakes even close to that.  

 

It is wild that for most of of their history through the 90s and the early time of Snyder that WFT was one of the crown jewels in the NFLs crown and it at this point is a waste basket. It really surprises me the NFL has not forced a sale the way the MLB did with the Dodgers so they get comptenecy back in one of their biggest most important markets.

[HardyBoy]

23 hours ago, The Tomcat said:

The thing about using numbers like that is other people have the same idea and you would end up splitting with more people.   Agreed the odds are the same but change up the numbers a little

 

The point is do you realize how absolutely insane it would be for the numbers to be a sequence from one through seven or whatever? Like that is mind boggingly low, but it is just as likely as any other set of numbers that comes out.

 

The lottery is a scam, don't play it.

[SoCal Deek]

It’s pretty simple really:

What’s something worth?
Answer…what people are willing to pay for it.

The sooner in life you learn this simple fact, the better off you’ll be.

[PromoTheRobot]

On 5/17/2022 at 8:55 PM, ArtVandalay said:

I really don't, but hey if you value my opinion as gospel I appreciate the complement, thank you, happy to hear that's his you view it.

 

Sure tons of people will buy them Captain Obvious, that doesn't make it right.  Those are two completely different conversations. 

 

If you can't comprehend the double dip concept behind taking your tax dollars, then also taking a PSL on top of it then I don't know what else to say.  Fork all your money over, lots of money to be made off people with that mind set.  Brand building is a powerful thing. 

 

It is funny you are so worked up about someone being opposed to PSLs and the double dip with your tax dollars. Like it's just so odd that upsets you lol, no need to be offended by it. 

 

PSLs offend you but so does getting tax money? PSL are like a user tax on the people who actually will use the stadium and it reduces, a bit, the taxpayer portion.

 

In a perfect world the owner buys his own stadium, but in a perfect world Buffalo would be a high tech hub with a population of over 3 million and home to a dozen Fortune 500 companies.

[corta765]

10 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

PSLs offend you but so does getting tax money? PSL are like a user tax on the people who actually will use the stadium and it reduces, a bit, the taxpayer portion.

 

In a perfect world the owner buys his own stadium, but in a perfect world Buffalo would be a high tech hub with a population of over 3 million and home to a dozen Fortune 500 companies.

Exactly.

 

And there is a reason in LA it was a fully privately funded stadium, the development around it was a revenue generator the owner wanted. Last time I checked Orchard Park is lining up with RFP's lol

[K-No]

On 5/17/2022 at 12:22 PM, corta765 said:

If the PSLs do not sell as well as they hope, I guarantee they adjust the price model to one that does as other teams have done. Not saying I agree with any of this either, but it is the reality. 

 

So, how will this work? Let's say lower level sideline seats between the 40s have a PSL price of $10K each. But after weeks of marketing,  they only sell 50% of the seats. If the Bills then reduce those PSL prices, will they refund the difference to those who already paid the $10K each?

And what about years later? Can the Bills lower their PSL prices making it difficult for charter PSL buyers to resell their PSLs for what they paid?

 

I guess PSLs mean the end of STH seniority. If a person wants great seats they just find someone willing to sell their PSL and poof, they are sitting mid-field their first year as STH. No more working your way up to better seats.

[DrDawkinstein]

4 minutes ago, K-No said:

 

So, how will this work? Let's say lower level sideline seats between the 40s have a PSL price of $10K each. But after weeks of marketing,  they only sell 50% of the seats. If the Bills then reduce those PSL prices, will they refund the difference to those who already paid the $10K each?

And what about years later? Can the Bills lower their PSL prices making it difficult for charter PSL buyers to resell their PSLs for what they paid?

 

I guess PSLs mean the end of STH seniority. If a person wants great seats they just find someone willing to sell their PSL and poof, they are sitting mid-field their first year as STH. No more working your way up to better seats.

 

So for the first part, I believe someone already explained how the Giants re-priced. They did it after the nominal deposit was due, but before anyone had actually paid, based on how few put down deposits. So there will be a window to re-price if necessary. As far as Bills lowering PSL pricing years down the line, I dont think that has ever happened, nor would it ever. For the exact reasons you stated.

 

For your second paragraph, the beauty there is, if you have seats someone wants, you can sell them the PSL for whatever you want. You paid $3000 for the PSL, but now 5 years later the Bills won a couple SBs and you have good seats in high demand? You get to privately sell it for... name your price... $6000? Profit!